Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-06-2009, 10:10 PM   #31
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,272
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
Andrea getting more playing time was more a function of JO being hurt than Jay seeing something in him that Sam did not. Also if we trade Bosh this summer he's not going to resign with us in 2010 as he'd only be able to get max dollars from the team we trade him to so it would take a S&T to get him back which would mean that we traded him this summer for nothing.
Agreed. I don't know why people, including Andrea himself, are praising Triano for this ground breaking new discovery as if it wasn't a JO injury that forced his hand and Andrea's improved play during that time that really caused him to see increased minutes. BC traded for a starting C, so was it really Mitchell's fault that Bargnani wasn't getting starting C minutes? He plays the players who he's given. In fact, I remember Mitchell giving Bargnani some burn at that position as a starter in his rookie and sophomore years, but at that time Andrea was underperforming so he was yanked.. Then he worked hard in the off-season, and caught a lucky break when JO went down... so enough with the "Jay Triano works miracles" type of reaction to Bargnani finally looking like NBA talent.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 01:48 AM   #32
antonaki1
Serious playground baller
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 346
antonaki1 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmart
K buddy most of this season we had someone banged up. J.O., Jose, Hump, Chris(himself), and Barganni were all injured at one point in the season. Plus we also lacked major depth so the injuries were even more of a factor. We ended up having Vouskul as our best big off the bench. So for you to criticize Bosh for not winning this year isn't right. Chris does not have a team and Chris cannot win by himself.

And it is a huge risk trading Bosh in terms of winning. We lose a 4 time all-star for who? A bunch of fillers. Look at Minnesota they'll never be the same without Garnett. Not saying Bosh is Garnett but Bosh is a pretty big part of our team I'm sure. So trading him is a risk.

Another thing is when did Chris say he want max money?

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/bas...83266-sun.html

Bosh says absolutely he's worth max money and there won't be any hometown discount. He has to maximize his earning potential while he can.

The million dollar question is...Can we build a winner with Chris taking up one third of our cap space?

Not to sure i buy the whole injury aspect anymore. Bosh had one of his most healthy seasons ever and we still won only 33 games. Many teams have injury problems. Boston almost knocked off Orlando without Garnett, Houston continued to win without Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming and Ron Artest. Orlando continued to win without their16ppg point guard Jameer Nelson.

We could not add the few pieces we needed because we're allready butting our heads on the cap and we have basically been playing bad basketball for two years now. Bosh is definitely a valuable piece, but can we win with him taking up 33% of our cap for the next 5 years?

That's why i don't feel it's a huge risk to trade him if he doesn't sign an extension this summer. You can get some valuable pieces in return and not risk losing him for nothing.
antonaki1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 07:38 AM   #33
b4ball
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,146
b4ball has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
Agreed. I don't know why people, including Andrea himself, are praising Triano for this ground breaking new discovery as if it wasn't a JO injury that forced his hand and Andrea's improved play during that time that really caused him to see increased minutes. BC traded for a starting C, so was it really Mitchell's fault that Bargnani wasn't getting starting C minutes? He plays the players who he's given. In fact, I remember Mitchell giving Bargnani some burn at that position as a starter in his rookie and sophomore years, but at that time Andrea was underperforming so he was yanked.. Then he worked hard in the off-season, and caught a lucky break when JO went down... so enough with the "Jay Triano works miracles" type of reaction to Bargnani finally looking like NBA talent.

Who are you to say that Andrea should not be praising Triano? Why do you think it's un-deserved? We all know JO got hurt and that provided Andrea some minutes. And we all know that JO was going to be the starting centre after Colangelo traded for him. And you think it's a revelation that Mitchell would play the # 1 pick in the draft? Smarten up. And then you top off your post with "Jay Triano works miracles". That's your quote. A pathetic attempt to fill a post with bullsh!t cause their is no substance.
b4ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 07:45 AM   #34
RapsFan
Great college starter
 
RapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,659
RapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

A lot of fans still find it incredibly difficult to understand that a max deal is just a % of the total cap. A max deal is something most of the teams in the NBA have to deal with, and they seem to be able to function and compete. The Bosh contract should have nothing to do with the amount. If the NBA didn't have a cap, then you'd see contracts that equal value of the player. But since there is a cap, all the top guys get lumped into the max deal. Basically the cap helps teams like us when negotiating a deal with a guy like Bosh....it only hurts guys like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, CP etc would would make more then the max contract currenly offers. So stop thinking of it as Bosh will be making the same as player X.....that's not what matters.
RapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 11:01 AM   #35
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,272
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
Who are you to say that Andrea should not be praising Triano? Why do you think it's un-deserved? We all know JO got hurt and that provided Andrea some minutes. And we all know that JO was going to be the starting centre after Colangelo traded for him. And you think it's a revelation that Mitchell would play the # 1 pick in the draft? Smarten up. And then you top off your post with "Jay Triano works miracles". That's your quote. A pathetic attempt to fill a post with bullsh!t cause their is no substance.
I searched through this point to find the part where you disagreed or attempted to disprove the point. Didn't find it. So I guess we're done here. Thanks for that.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 11:08 AM   #36
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,272
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
A lot of fans still find it incredibly difficult to understand that a max deal is just a % of the total cap. A max deal is something most of the teams in the NBA have to deal with, and they seem to be able to function and compete. The Bosh contract should have nothing to do with the amount. If the NBA didn't have a cap, then you'd see contracts that equal value of the player. But since there is a cap, all the top guys get lumped into the max deal. Basically the cap helps teams like us when negotiating a deal with a guy like Bosh....it only hurts guys like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, CP etc would would make more then the max contract currenly offers. So stop thinking of it as Bosh will be making the same as player X.....that's not what matters.

Yup.. and on the flip side, how many teams who don't have a max or near max contract player are even competitive?

NY
Memphis
Sacramento
LAC
Charlotte
GSW
OKC
Portland
Indiana
Chicago

So by my count that's 2/10... and even those 2 have not achieved beyond 1st round results yet. So I personally would rather not go that route.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 12:40 PM   #37
Maniak
Maniak
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 26,482
Maniak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

If the Raptors built their team around Bargnani, it would be more embarassing than the fact we already picked him over Roy and all those other players who are actual franchise guys.
Maniak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 12:49 PM   #38
RapsFan
Great college starter
 
RapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,659
RapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
Yup.. and on the flip side, how many teams who don't have a max or near max contract player are even competitive?

NY
Memphis
Sacramento
LAC
Charlotte
GSW
OKC
Portland
Indiana
Chicago

So by my count that's 2/10... and even those 2 have not achieved beyond 1st round results yet. So I personally would rather not go that route.

And Portland had a max guy in LaFrentz on their cap, and a $9mill Darius Miles. Sactown had basically 2 near max guys in Brad Miller and Bibby until recently. Clipps have a max guy actually in Zach Randolph and a big contract in Baron Davis and the Warriors have multiple $10mill+ guys. Indy too has tons of high priced (near or above $10mill). NY was paying Marbury a max deal and we all know their cap situation. All teams have this on their cap. I think the "can we afford to compete with Bosh making this money" is such an ignorant argument.
RapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 01:39 PM   #39
RaininThrees
Meats Don't Clash
 
RaininThrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,997
RaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
Agreed. I don't know why people, including Andrea himself, are praising Triano for this ground breaking new discovery as if it wasn't a JO injury that forced his hand and Andrea's improved play during that time that really caused him to see increased minutes. BC traded for a starting C, so was it really Mitchell's fault that Bargnani wasn't getting starting C minutes? He plays the players who he's given. In fact, I remember Mitchell giving Bargnani some burn at that position as a starter in his rookie and sophomore years, but at that time Andrea was underperforming so he was yanked.. Then he worked hard in the off-season, and caught a lucky break when JO went down... so enough with the "Jay Triano works miracles" type of reaction to Bargnani finally looking like NBA talent.


With all due respect, neither you nor I have any idea what goes on behind closed doors on the Raps (pre- or post-Triano), and if every player (to a man) are praising Triano and are outwardly saying its a good hire and that he's a good coach, there's got to be something to it.
RaininThrees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 01:42 PM   #40
Doko
High School Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 831
Doko has decent reputation
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maniak
If the Raptors built their team around Bargnani, it would be more embarassing than the fact we already picked him over Roy and all those other players who are actual franchise guys.

like who?
Doko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 01:49 PM   #41
Zan Tabak
Only the finest
 
Zan Tabak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: -lll──lll-
Posts: 3,810
Zan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doko
like who?
Aldridge or Rudy Gay?..im not sure.

I think the Raps took the right guy with the number one. Bargs will keep getting better and better. And when all is said and done, im confident he'll be the best player from that draft class.
Zan Tabak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 02:23 PM   #42
antonaki1
Serious playground baller
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 346
antonaki1 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
And Portland had a max guy in LaFrentz on their cap, and a $9mill Darius Miles. Sactown had basically 2 near max guys in Brad Miller and Bibby until recently. Clipps have a max guy actually in Zach Randolph and a big contract in Baron Davis and the Warriors have multiple $10mill+ guys. Indy too has tons of high priced (near or above $10mill). NY was paying Marbury a max deal and we all know their cap situation. All teams have this on their cap. I think the "can we afford to compete with Bosh making this money" is such an ignorant argument.

You just made our point. None of those teams was really competitive because certain players took up more of the cap than they deserved. You don't automatically throw max money out just because he's your best player.

With Chris we're talking about signing him to a 6 year $130 million contract. He didn't even make third team allstar this season. Now the question is...is that the wise thing to do? We can't just put on our blinders, this team has not been competitive for two years, there is something wrong here! We need an infusion of talent at many positions, clearly we will not be able to afford that if we have a max guy that's not Lebron or Kobe.
antonaki1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 02:31 PM   #43
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,272
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
With all due respect, neither you nor I have any idea what goes on behind closed doors on the Raps (pre- or post-Triano), and if every player (to a man) are praising Triano and are outwardly saying its a good hire and that he's a good coach, there's got to be something to it.
But my thing is, who cares how much they praise the guy if the bottom line (W-L) is bad? I remember Knick players praising Isiah Thomas and saying they loved the guy prior to him being fired.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 02:31 PM   #44
Maniak
Maniak
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 26,482
Maniak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableManiak is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zan Tabak
Aldridge or Rudy Gay?..im not sure.

I think the Raps took the right guy with the number one. Bargs will keep getting better and better. And when all is said and done, im confident he'll be the best player from that draft class.
That sure is alot of confidence your putting in him...
Maniak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2009, 02:33 PM   #45
RaininThrees
Meats Don't Clash
 
RaininThrees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,997
RaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterRaininThrees is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonaki1
You just made our point. None of those teams was really competitive because certain players took up more of the cap than they deserved. You don't automatically throw max money out just because he's your best player.

With Chris we're talking about signing him to a 6 year $130 million contract. He didn't even make third team allstar this season.

Yet, he was one of only 3 guys to average 20/10 in the league this year. Perhaps the team's record has something to do with it, rather than his individual accomplishments and skill set?
RaininThrees is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy