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Old 06-13-2009, 04:38 PM   #1
TheGame414
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Default Damion James is returning to Texas

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4256335

So we have a pretty clear-cut preseason top three of Kansas, Kentucky and Texas, in that order.

PG- Jai Lucas
SG- Avery Bradley
SF- Damion James
PF- Gary Johnson
C- Dexter Pittman

With Justin Mason and Jordan Hamilton off the bench. That's a ballclub.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Texas has been a team full of players that don't step up when it matters most since Durant and others played there....I don't see any changes.

I see a team that will be hyped by some, but be nothing more than a sweet 16 contender when it's all said and done.

Every player you mentioned that has been on the team the last couple years at least has done absolutely nothing to make me confident in them.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Dexter Pittman.. Man I swear that guy eats a cheeseburger before he checks into the game.
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Old 06-13-2009, 04:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

If Pittman plays to his potential and the incoming recruits are as good as hyped, they are legit Elite Eight with a ceiling of Final Four.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnCeltics
If Pittman plays to his potential and the incoming recruits are as good as hyped, they are legit Elite Eight with a ceiling of Final Four.


There's really no such thing as a cieling in college basketball.

Especially if were talking about teams in the upper half of BCS conferences.

All it takes is a team to get hott at the right time and they have a legit shot at the final four.

And to say UT's ceiling is the final 4 is just ignorant.
There a top 10 team in the country everyway you look at it.

Last edited by lukeridnour08 : 06-13-2009 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by i seen hippos
Texas has been a team full of players that don't step up when it matters most since Durant and others played there....I don't see any changes.

I see a team that will be hyped by some, but be nothing more than a sweet 16 contender when it's all said and done.

Every player you mentioned that has been on the team the last couple years at least has done absolutely nothing to make me confident in them.
They return everyone from a 23-win team except A.J. Abrams, who's replaced by someone who will be at least as good in Avery Bradley. They add a legit point guard, the lack of which is the thing that hurt them most last year, in Jai Lucas- who wasn't on that team last year, of course- another scoring forward in Jordan Hamilton, and Gary Johnson and Dexter Pittman can only get better.

You're telling me this isn't a top five team? They have post scoring. They have two dynamic swingmen. They have excellent guards. They should absolutely be the consensus No. 3 team.

Last edited by TheGame414 : 06-13-2009 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeridnour08
And to say UT's ceiling is the final 4 is just ignorant.
There a top 10 team in the country everyway you look at it.
So you are trying to say Final Four is not as good as top ten? And I hope you realize how hard it is to make a Final Four... you are competing against 64 other teams, 1 lose and you are done. Just look at last year, besides for UConn and UNC (except for that LSU game probably) every Final Four team had to fight their way through, and could have easily been defeated.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnCeltics
So you are trying to say Final Four is not as good as top ten? And I hope you realize how hard it is to make a Final Four... you are competing against 64 other teams, 1 lose and you are done. Just look at last year, besides for UConn and UNC (except for that LSU game probably) every Final Four team had to fight their way through, and could have easily been defeated.
I think this is an argument over semantics, and I think he took exception to the classification of the Final Four being the "ceiling" for Texas, as if you meant they couldn't actually win it all, but could go to the Final Four. I'm just guessing, though. Again, semantics.

Personally, I think James' return gives us three legit national title contenders. Like I said, they have a really good backcourt, they have difference-makers off the bench, they have a great wing player, they have frontcourt scoring, they have a coach who has made deep tourney runs in the past, and they should be highly efficient both offensively and defensively. Sounds like a title contender to me.

I do disagree with Luke's assertions that a)"there's no ceiling" in college basketball and b)all it takes is a team getting hot to reach the Final Four.

There are plenty of teams with ceilings. I'll look at my own team from this past season. Illinois finished 2nd in the No. 3 or 4 conference in country, was in the Top 20 for much of the year and was a No. 5 seed. Sounds like a lot of second-tier, 4-5 seed teams that made the Final Four, right? But even if Chester Frazier had been available they weren't going past the Sweet 16. They couldn't possibly generate enough offense to keep up with UNC even if their top-flight defense slowed the Heels to 75-80 points, which would have been conceivable. That was a good team that had a ceiling. You can play that tournament 1,000 times and they may not make the Final Four once.

The second point kind of ties into the first one. Lesser teams have gotten hot and made the Final Four. But that's not the rule, it's the exception. Teams like George Mason in 2006 are the exception that proves the rule, the rule being that by and large, it's really good teams that make the Final Four. That was about a 1-in-10,000 shot to ever happen again the way it did, and on top of that it happened in an extremely down year of college basketball. Even though they beat a very talented UConn team to get there, in a lot of years you could probably calculate '06 GMU's Final Four chances at pretty close to 0%.

I don't even think a team like Villanova qualifies as "getting hot" to reach the Final Four. They were a No. 3 seed, after all, making them hypothetically one of the nation's 12 best team. They were a really good team with a lot of highly-recruited, talented players. And after all, the No. 1 seed they beat to get there was a team they already beat!

The vast majority of the time, you have to be a top-flight team to make the Final Four.
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Old 06-14-2009, 07:35 AM   #9
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
I think this is an argument over semantics, and I think he took exception to the classification of the Final Four being the "ceiling" for Texas, as if you meant they couldn't actually win it all, but could go to the Final Four. I'm just guessing, though. Again, semantics.

The vast majority of the time, you have to be a top-flight team to make the Final Four.
These two pretty much sum up what I meant. Texas is good, but IMO they are not a NC contending team. Final Four is an accomplishment for any team, and thats as far as I could see Texas going.

Yes, you do need to be a top-flight team, and usually with a good amount of NBA players. If you look at UConn, they had sure thing future NBA players in Walker, Dyson, Robinson, Adrien, and Thabeet. UNC had Lawson, Ellington, Hansbrough, Davis, etc. But what LukeRidnour08 probably didn't realize is that NBA talent trumps hot streaks about 99% of the time, and that rare case is George Mason.
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Old 06-14-2009, 02:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnCeltics
These two pretty much sum up what I meant. Texas is good, but IMO they are not a NC contending team. Final Four is an accomplishment for any team, and thats as far as I could see Texas going.

Yes, you do need to be a top-flight team, and usually with a good amount of NBA players. If you look at UConn, they had sure thing future NBA players in Walker, Dyson, Robinson, Adrien, and Thabeet. UNC had Lawson, Ellington, Hansbrough, Davis, etc. But what LukeRidnour08 probably didn't realize is that NBA talent trumps hot streaks about 99% of the time, and that rare case is George Mason.
Exactly. The marginal team on the hot streak that gets there is the outlier.

I disagree about Texas not being a title contender, though. I think right now they're clearly the No. 3 team going into next season and like I said, they have all the pieces. I do put them a bit behind KU and UK, but they're a real contender to me.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
Exactly. The marginal team on the hot streak that gets there is the outlier.

I disagree about Texas not being a title contender, though. I think right now they're clearly the No. 3 team going into next season and like I said, they have all the pieces. I do put them a bit behind KU and UK, but they're a real contender to me.
I think its:
1.Kansas
2.Kentucky
3.Villanova
4.Purdue
5.Texas

Of course Texas is a contender, but I think Kansas, Kentucky, Villanova, and Purdue have a better shot than Texas at winning it all.
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

This is big news, because Texas was already going to be stacked even without James. They are legit top 4 contenders now.

They lose AJ Abrams and Connor Atchley, both good players who kind of faded last year.

Damion James will be the starting SF or PF, depending on who performs better, five-star freshman Jordan Hamilton or junior Gary Johnson.

I really don`t understand why NBA teams don`t seem to consider James a first round prospect, it`s like they think of him only as a 6`7 PF, and don`t realize that he is fully capable of playing SF in the NBA. Dude is a stud rebounder regardless of position, brings excellent size, strength and athleticism to the SF position, and has perimeter skills as well (can handle, shoot the three-ball). I don`t know if he`s a good defender, but givben his size and athleticism he is certainly capable of it. Not like he`s a lottery talent, but he could be a very nice backup or role-playing starter as an NBA SF. The NBA`s loss is Texas`gain, I suppose.

Meanwhile, if they put DJ at PF, Jordan Hamilton could be a big time scorer even as a freshman, maybe even the best scorer on the team by the end of the season.

If Dexter Pittman has continued to improve and hopefully has slimmed down to like 280 or less, they will have one of the biggest and potentially best centers in the nation. And they have nice frontcourt depth in Johnson, Alexis Wangmene, Matt Hill, and Clint Chapman, plus another freshman SF in Sean Williams.

Then in the backcourt they have one of the best recruits in the country in Avery Bradley, a probable one-and-done. He`ll probably be backed up by Justin Mason.

At PG they have a choice between Jai Lucas and Dogus Balbay, both of whom are high quality and experienced 1s. My guess is they`ll begin the season with Balbay starting.

Giving them a lineup something like:

C: Dexter Pittman/whoever steps up as a junior
PF: Damion James/Gary Johnson
SF: Jordan Hamilton/Sean Williams
SG: Avery Bradley/Justin Mason
PG: Dogus Balbay/Jai Lucas

Frankly I think they might be better than Kentucky if they bring it all together and Barnes does his job.









But I think you are all forgetting Michigan State.

yes, they lose Goran Suton, Marquise Gray, and Travis Walton.

But they bring back Kalin Lucas, Raymar Morgan, Delvon Roe, Durrell Summers, Korie Lucious, Draymond Green, plus they are deep with high quality bench guys, and they will have two high quality big men rookies in Derrick Nix and Garrick Sherman. Nix could fill the scoring void at Center left by Suton, although Green or Tom Herzog might begin the season starting.

The trio of Lucas, Morgan and Roe are experienced and have NBA talent, it`s an excellent overall program, and Tom Izzo is one of the best coaches in the business. They will definitely be an Elite 8 team, probably Final Four or better.

I picture their lineup something like:

C: Derrick Nix/Garrick Sherman
PF: Delvon Roe/Draymond Green
SF: Raymar Morgan/?
SG: Durrell Summers/?
PG: Kalin Lucas/Korie Lucious

They`re not quite as talented as KU, UK, or Texas, but still a title threat.



I still have Kansas as the championship winner at this point. Kentucky is number two or three along with Texas, and MSU is number four but still contenders. Villanova, Duke, Louisville, and UNC round out the Elite 8. UConn could be strong again with Stanley Robinson, Kemba Walker, Alex Oriakhi, Jerome Dyson, Gavin Edwards, Jamal Coombs, etc, if this recruiting scandal blows over and Jim Calhoun and all those players are still there next year.

The PAC-10 looks really weak next year now that USC has self-destructed, the Arizona teams are losing all their NBA talent, and UCLA is losing Jrue and a bunch of seniors, Washington looks like the most talented team out there. The SEC looks unusually strong with UK bringing in one of the best recruiting classes ever, and Tennessee, Florida, Mississippi State, and Vanderbilt all looking pretty damn strong.

Last edited by A.M.G. : 06-14-2009 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

So your saying texas, a legit top 3-10 team in the country in everyones top 25, has 0 chance at the final game??


because that is what you said in your post. Let me quote it for you.

Quote:
they are legit Elite Eight with a ceiling of Final Four.
You said that right??



In 2004/05 NC was pre-season #3 team in. they won the national championship. Let me remind you that the consensus here is that Texas is considered the #3 team in the country at this point. That same year, Illinois was ranked #5 in pre-season, they were runner up to NC. The other final 4 teams, Mich. St. and Louisville, were out of the top 10 in all pre-season rankings as well.

in 2005/06, Duke, was the consensus #1 in everybodys pre-season poll. They were knocked out in the sweet 16 by LSU, who was not in anybodys top 25 pre-season that year. LSU ended up going to the Final 4. That same year, Florida won the national championship, despite not being in anyones pre-season top 25 as well. There opponent, UCLA, was ranked 15 or below in all the pre-season rankings. George Mason also advanced to the top 25, we all know that they were hardly considered for even a single vote for the pre-season top 25 that year.

in 06/07, all 4 teams in the final 4 were in the the pre-season top 10. Ohio St., the runner up, was rated #3 or below, which is the ranking that Texas will get.

in 07/08, All 4 of the pre-season top 4, made it to the final 4. Somewhat remarkable. However, the winner, Kansas, was #4 in the majority of those poles.

In 08/09, Michigan, the general #6 top ranked team in pre-season, was runner up. Villanova, a final 4 team, was generally between #22 and 25 in all the pre-season rankings.


Stats don't lie.
Texas, a consesus top 5 team (probably) has a great shot at the title game.
Again, for you to say they have 0 chance is ignorant.
There have been teams w/ way less talent in the past reach the final 4, and even the title game (mich st. last year anyone??)


So my question..
You don't think there a title contender because there not preseason #1 or #2??
Because the stats show, that never have the preseason #1 and #2 teams have met in the finals.
So if you believe that your sorely mistaken
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Old 06-14-2009, 05:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

Texas has a Final Four ceiling. About your point about Villanova, they did not play to the level of a Final Four team until about 20 games in. They did not have a win against the top 4 teams in the Big East until they beat Pittsburg, 19 games in.

Your stats say 11 out of 25 preseason top 5 teams made the final four. That is 44%. That means Texas has a 56% chance to not make the Final Four.

You don't think there a title contender because there not preseason #1 or #2??
Its not that. Texas is just not a team that will win the title, I just can't see it in them. Kansas, Purdue, Washington and Kentucky all have better chances at the title, and depending on incoming freshmen, Villanova. My Final Four without brackets right now would Kansas, Purdue, Washington and Texas. Texas and Washington would have reached their ceilings, so I see it being Kansas vs. Purdue with Kansas winning.
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Old 06-14-2009, 06:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: Damion James is returning to Texas

I understand your opinion and how Texas is not in your final 4.
There not even in my final 4.

But i'm just saying that to put them off is a national title contender when they have as much talent as any team in the country and they havn't played a single game yet may be a little pre-mature.

They have 5+ NBA players, and many others that are solid role players who will make great money in another league.

The talent is definitely there.
Whether or not they do anything w/ it is to be determined.
But to say they have no shot at the title game i think is wrong.
There a top 5 team pre-season.

Last year would you say that Mich.st would go to the final 4??
Especially after they got destroyed by NC in the non-conference??
Hell no.

My point is, you really can't put off a team in the pre-season, especially a team like Texas w/ as much talent and solid role players they have
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