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Old 06-15-2009, 03:27 AM   #166
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

I could care less... he's helped bring 4 championships to LA. It feels great tonight!
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:30 AM   #167
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rose
How about Game 2 and 3?
How about Aaron Brooks has proven to be an inconsistent player in general. Yao Ming being out means nothing bc he has had 20 point games with Yao playing during the regular season.
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:30 AM   #168
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejumpa
Well, sometimes they spark arguments, other times good conversations, like this one...

If he is top 10 now and retires 5-6 years from now(lets say 8 if he just wants to stay around lol), where would you guys think he ranks then? realistically
Depends how many titles he wins. LA has a talented and young team so it is fairly realistic he could win at least 2 more titles.

He can't move past Jordan, Wilt, or Kareem even if he cures cancer.

Depends what Duncan still has left in the tank and maybe even if Shaq can get one with LBJ.

Two or three more titles I'd say he's in the argument to be in Bird/Magic territory.
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:34 AM   #169
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rose
Depends how many titles he wins. LA has a talented and young team so it is fairly realistic he could win at least 2 more titles.

He can't move past Jordan, Wilt, or Kareem even if he cures cancer.

Depends what Duncan still has left in the tank and maybe even if Shaq can get one with LBJ.

Two or three more titles I'd say he's in the argument to be in Bird/Magic territory.

I can see that. At some point, you can't ignore rings, 2nd option or not.

But, what if he wins no more rings....
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:34 AM   #170
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsatyr
How about Aaron Brooks has proven to be an inconsistent player in general. Yao Ming being out means nothing bc he has 20 point games with Yao playing during the regular season.
Did he have 34 pt games with Yao in? Yao not camping in the lane obviously opened things up for Brooks to drive more to the lane.

You may be right, maybe Houston would beat LA with a healthy Yao, but in my estimation LA was going to beat them since we were up 2-1 and we respected the Rockets with Yao in. Gasol/Odom/Bynum had to work for it when Yao was in the paint, they got all lazy and relaxed mentally when he was out.
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:55 AM   #171
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

James Worthy says Kobe is top ten...
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:56 AM   #172
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Just a little something I was thinking about. By most of these Kobe fans logic, Scottie Pippen was a top 10 great years ago. They say Kobe has 4 rings, well, Scottie has 6. Scottie is widely regarded as one of the GOAT defenders. Just like Kobe fans say Shaq needed Kobe, MJ needed Scottie. Big time contributor to 6 championship teams. Scottie = top 10

Oh I forgot, Kobe fans only hype up Scottie when it pertains to MJ. And they'll bring up meaningless BS like "81 pts, 62 in 3 quarters". Scottie himself owned Mark Jackson with that argument a few years ago. The only thing Kobe one upped on Scottie is a Finals MVP. Yet there are players with Finals MVPs that had more impressive runs that they're trying to place Kobe over.
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Old 06-15-2009, 03:59 AM   #173
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by raptorfan_dr07
Just a little something I was thinking about. By most of these Kobe fans logic, Scottie Pippen was a top 10 great years ago. They say Kobe has 4 rings, well, Scottie has 6. Scottie is widely regarded as one of the GOAT defenders. Just like Kobe fans say Shaq needed Kobe, MJ needed Scottie. Big time contributor to 6 championship teams. Scottie = top 10

Oh I forgot, Kobe fans only hype up Scottie when it pertains to MJ. And they'll bring up meaningless BS like "81 pts, 62 in 3 quarters". Scottie himself owned Mark Jackson with that argument a few years ago. The only thing Kobe one upped on Scottie is a Finals MVP. Yet there are players with Finals MVPs that had more impressive runs that they're trying to place Kobe over.

How many league MVPs did Pip win? How many Finals MVP? How many scoring titles? How many titles as the #1? Has he ever been to the Finals as the #1?
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:01 AM   #174
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by raptorfan_dr07
Just a little something I was thinking about. By most of these Kobe fans logic, Scottie Pippen was a top 10 great years ago. They say Kobe has 4 rings, well, Scottie has 6. Scottie is widely regarded as one of the GOAT defenders. Just like Kobe fans say Shaq needed Kobe, MJ needed Scottie. Big time contributor to 6 championship teams. Scottie = top 10

Oh I forgot, Kobe fans only hype up Scottie when it pertains to MJ. And they'll bring up meaningless BS like "81 pts, 62 in 3 quarters". Scottie himself owned Mark Jackson with that argument a few years ago. The only thing Kobe one upped on Scottie is a Finals MVP. Yet there are players with Finals MVPs that had more impressive runs that they're trying to place Kobe over.

Ah no. Kobe has scoring titles. All star MVPs. MVPs. Finals MVP. Number one option on a team for more than a few years. etc etc.

No one is using just number of rings to propel Kobe into the top ten.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:02 AM   #175
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rose
How many league MVPs did Pip win? How many Finals MVP? How many scoring titles? How many titles as the #1? Has he ever been to the Finals as the #1?

Oh come on, don't throw those type of comments out there. Kobe didn't lead anyone anywhere before this season but he was still a great player.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:04 AM   #176
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

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Originally Posted by LA_Showtime
Oh come on, don't throw those type of comments out there. Kobe didn't lead anyone anywhere before this season but he was still a great player.

As is Scottie Pippen. But without a ring as the numero uno its hard to argue a player is top ten.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:04 AM   #177
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA_Showtime
Oh come on, don't throw those type of comments out there. Kobe didn't lead anyone anywhere before this season but he was still a great player.
These things were basically what Kobe was lacking.

I love Pippen, he was a great #2, but he isn't Kobe.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:19 AM   #178
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rose
How many league MVPs did Pip win? How many Finals MVP? How many scoring titles? How many titles as the #1? Has he ever been to the Finals as the #1?

He played with the GOAT. If Wilt played with MJ he would have had no MVP's either. When MJ retired Pippen nearly won the MVP in the one full season he had without MJ in his prime.

Pippen is top 20 all-time and would have been higher if it were not for MJ's shadow. His 6 rings>Kobe's 4. What puts Kobe higher is that he is a far better offensive player. The MVP? Pippen had only one prime season without MJ and nearly won it. Kobe was the top dog on his team for 7 seasons and has 1 MVP. Give Pippen 7 cracks at it and he very likely would have won at least 1 MVP. Finals MVP? That is a joke award. Tony Parker and Cedric Maxwell combine for as many finals MVP's as Kareem. That tells you all you need about that award. Besides, Jesus himself would not be able to win a finals MVP over Jordan. There was too much NBA, corporate investment in MJ. MJ could have averaged 6/2/1 on 13% shooting and he still would have won those finals MVP's. However, Kobe is the most prolific scorer since Wilt/MJ, and he came close to matching MJ's best season (35.4 ppg versus 37.1 ppg). Pippen>Kobe on defense but his inferiority on offense is greater than his superiority on defense. Hence, Kobe is higher on the all-time lists.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:21 AM   #179
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
He played with the GOAT. If Wilt played with MJ he would have had no MVP's either. When MJ retired Pippen nearly won the MVP in the one full season he had without MJ in his prime.

Pippen is top 20 all-time and would have been higher if it were not for MJ's shadow. His 6 rings>Kobe's 4. What puts Kobe higher is that he was a far better offensive player. The MVP? Pippen had only one prime season without MJ and nearly won it. Kobe was the top dog on his team for 7 seasons and has 1 MVP. Give Pippen 7 cracks at it and he very likely would have won at least 1 MVP. Finals MVP? That is a joke award. Tony Parker and Cedric Maxell combine for as many finals MVP's as Kareem. That tells you all you need about that award. Besides, Jesus himself would not be able to win a finals MVP over Jordan. There was too much NBA, corporate investment in MJ. MJ could have averaged 6/2/1 on 13% shooting and he still would have won those finals MVP's. However, Kobe is the most prolific scorer since Wilt/MJ, and he came close to matching MJ's best season (35.4 ppg versus 37.1 ppg). Pippen>Kobe on defense but his inferiority on offense is greater than his superiority on defense. Hence, Kobe is higher on the all-time lists.

Yeah definetly, Pip might have had some individual success if he wasn't paired with MJ for so long. He's clearly a better defender than Kobe but as most reasonable people think, Kobe is ahead of Scottie on all-time lists.
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Old 06-15-2009, 04:25 AM   #180
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant is now officially a top 10 player of all time!

I have Kobe 9th all-time right now, Pippen 18th. If Kobe wins next season he overtakes Hakeem and would have a case over Bird/Russell/Shaq. If he can get to 6 he leaves these guys behind and has a case over Magic. I think only Jordan, Kareem, and Wilt are beyond Kobe's reach.
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