Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Charlotte Hornets Forum

Charlotte Hornets Forum Charlotte Hornets message board forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-18-2009, 08:43 AM   #16
LJJ
Extra Cheese
 
LJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,882
LJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Dalembert?

Diaw + Okafor is really working, I can't think of a better complementing big man pairing in the league. It's not the most talented combination obviously, but I don't see any reason to break it up unless one of them really doesn't want to be here.
We have bigger holes at the moment.

And Dalembert is not in Okafor's league defensively. His averages are pretty decent, but he also gives up a lot of unnecessary FT's and points in general.

Trading away Okafor to get Harden would be taking a few steps back. I understand some times you have to take a few steps back in order to go forward, but taking a few steps back as a team that hasn't even been to the playoffs yet ever is not the right move.
LJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 09:12 AM   #17
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
SixersFan76 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

You're citing a line-up that won how many games as proof everyone is exactly where they should be? Name me one playoff team with a smaller line-up than Bobcats had with a 6-7 SF, 6-8 PF, and 6-9 C.

And why would the Sixers do a deal of Dalembert for Mohammed and Radmanovic? They would get two guys who stink and have more money due to them than Dalembert. So they get no salary cap relief - in fact take on salary, they get worse players, they get older players, they get players with same length contracts, and they get nothing else out of it? Why in the world would any team do a deal with the Bobcats where they get absolutely no benefit out of the trade?
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 09:31 AM   #18
LJJ
Extra Cheese
 
LJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,882
LJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Dalembert?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
You're citing a line-up that won how many games as proof everyone is exactly where they should be? Name me one playoff team with a smaller line-up than Bobcats had with a 6-7 SF, 6-8 PF, and 6-9 C.

I take it you haven't seen the finals? Howard isn't bigger than Okafor. Lewis is 6'10, but he lives on the perimeter and he doesn't play a lick defense. His size advantage on Diaw is only technical. And Wallace is so much bigger than Turkoglu on the court it isn't even funny.

Stop talking out of your ass.

And I base it on their play. I don't base the performance of two players who have player together for half a season on a entire teams win percentage for the whole season like you.
LJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 10:36 AM   #19
~spectre~
You've been 'Smacked!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 883
~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board
Default Re: Dalembert?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
You're citing a line-up that won how many games as proof everyone is exactly where they should be? Name me one playoff team with a smaller line-up than Bobcats had with a 6-7 SF, 6-8 PF, and 6-9 C.

And why would the Sixers do a deal of Dalembert for Mohammed and Radmanovic? They would get two guys who stink and have more money due to them than Dalembert. So they get no salary cap relief - in fact take on salary, they get worse players, they get older players, they get players with same length contracts, and they get nothing else out of it? Why in the world would any team do a deal with the Bobcats where they get absolutely no benefit out of the trade?

I have to agree with LJJ here...seems you're starting to reach on things. First off, the difference between the two packages is a whopping 750k when you include the trade kicker so it's pretty much revenue neutral. You might think that our package "stinks"...but what you're offering back isn't exactly a something to be proud of and especially at over 12 million per year. He's a malcontent and it appears your FO is desperate to move him.

In regards to our record...what does that have to do with Larry Brown wanting to "play Mek at his true power forward position" that you're trying to put forth? That was my opinion that they're playing the exact positions they should be, but regardless of that I've proven that Larry Brown does not want to play Mek at PF...so you're trying to change the subject?
~spectre~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 11:38 AM   #20
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
SixersFan76 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

That's not a statement that makes any sense. The difference to the Sixers is $5 million. They wouldn't be paying the trade kicker if they didn't trade him. Secondly, Dalembert can waive the trade kicker - it's allowed by NBA Collective Bargaining rules, so Bobcats could work that out with him in advance of the trade.

He's not a malcontent - he's an underperforming player. The front office wants to move him because of his salary. They don't want worse players with bigger contracts. That's not a deal that any sane GM would make, Sixers or otherwise.

The deal has not been reported in any Philly papers and hasn't really been discussed much in Philly.

Larry Brown absolutely does want to play Okafor at the 4. They traded for Diop in spite of his huge contract precisely because they want to play Okafor at the 4. And your record proves that not everyone is playing where they should be - at least not if you want to have a winning team. Larry Brown is and always has been a defense first coach. That doesn't jive with playing an undersized guy at the 5 and an undersized, poor rebounding guy at the 4.

Explain why in the world would the Sixers trade an overpaid, but productive 28year old center who is an excellent rebounder and shot blocker for two older players who can't play, have the same length of contracts, and would cost Philly an extra $5 million? They wouldn't. No one would. You either get better players in return and take on salary, or you get worse players in return, but shed salary. No one would take inferior players at higher salary. That's why there would have to be a serious sweetner for anyone to even consider a deal like that, namely either more bad contracts coming to you, or giving up a draft pick or a promising young player. That's how trades work in the NBA.

So again, the teams don't appear to be good trading partners, my original point. But don't try to convince yourselves that you're getting Dalembert for Nazr and Radmanovic with nothing added to the deal.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 11:43 AM   #21
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
SixersFan76 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

By the way, when mentioning malcontents, you conveniently ommitted how Radmanovic got traded twice for being a malcontent and complaining about his minutes while Dalembert has never been traded. Both guys got kicked off their national teams, but only one of them got in a fight with the coach in the locker room after a game. You're not exactly giving up locker room glue guys either.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 01:11 PM   #22
~spectre~
You've been 'Smacked!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 883
~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board
Default Re: Dalembert?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
That's not a statement that makes any sense. The difference to the Sixers is $5 million. They wouldn't be paying the trade kicker if they didn't trade him. Secondly, Dalembert can waive the trade kicker - it's allowed by NBA Collective Bargaining rules, so Bobcats could work that out with him in advance of the trade.

Dalembert...owed for 2 more years at 24,938,517 + 3,740,777.55 (15%) = 28,679294.55

Nazr + Vlad...owed for 2 more years at 26,700,800

Wow, I WAS wrong...we'd actually be taking in 1,978,494.55 in EXTRA salary.

My numbers are from DraftExpress.

Do you have something saying he can waive the kicker? From things I've read he can't...but even then the difference would only be 1,762,203...just a little short of your "5 million".

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
He's not a malcontent - he's an underperforming player. The front office wants to move him because of his salary. They don't want worse players with bigger contracts. That's not a deal that any sane GM would make, Sixers or otherwise.

The 6-11 Dalembert asked to be dealt prior to the Feb. 19 trade deadline, but Stefanski could find no takers for the 6-11 native of Haiti.

Sixers president Ed Stefanski tried to honor the unhappy Dalembertís trade request in February, but found no takers at the trade deadline. While Stefanski said Monday that Dalembert hasnít asked to be dealt lately, itís possible the Sixers may again attempt to find Dalembert a new home this summer. Making Stefanskiís job tougher is that Dalembert has two years and $25 million remaining on his contract. Plus, the team that acquires him would have to pay an additional 15 percent trade kicker ($3.75 million) up front.

He's been complaining about his PT which was over 24 mpg per game last season. He's requested numerous trades from the Sixers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
The deal has not been reported in any Philly papers and hasn't really been discussed much in Philly.

Stefanski declines comment on Dalembert trade rumor

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
Larry Brown absolutely does want to play Okafor at the 4. They traded for Diop in spite of his huge contract precisely because they want to play Okafor at the 4. And your record proves that not everyone is playing where they should be - at least not if you want to have a winning team. Larry Brown is and always has been a defense first coach. That doesn't jive with playing an undersized guy at the 5 and an undersized, poor rebounding guy at the 4.

Then why didn't Larry Brown play them together? He absolutely wants to...yet he didn't?

Talk about not making sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
Explain why in the world would the Sixers trade an overpaid, but productive 28year old center who is an excellent rebounder and shot blocker for two older players who can't play, have the same length of contracts, and would cost Philly an extra $5 million? They wouldn't. No one would. You either get better players in return and take on salary, or you get worse players in return, but shed salary. No one would take inferior players at higher salary. That's why there would have to be a serious sweetner for anyone to even consider a deal like that, namely either more bad contracts coming to you, or giving up a draft pick or a promising young player. That's how trades work in the NBA.

So again, the teams don't appear to be good trading partners, my original point. But don't try to convince yourselves that you're getting Dalembert for Nazr and Radmanovic with nothing added to the deal.

What was Daly's PER last season...something like 13?

It's crap for crap, but hey...it's perfectly fine with me if Daly stays in Philly. From the look of things we're the only ones willing to talk to them about him, so it's looking good for you to hang onto him.
~spectre~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 01:35 PM   #23
acidbasesalt
Coward Saviour
 
acidbasesalt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 232
acidbasesalt has decent reputationacidbasesalt has decent reputation
Default Re: Dalembert?

The point of this trade for Charlotte, in my opinion, has little to do with the players they're going to lose, but what they will do with Okafor. With Dalembert in the rotation, the Bobcats will have too many centers.

I think we should trade Okafor. He is not a good center, actually a poor one. Look at his numbers against other centers, for instance, Ilgauskas, Howard, and even rookie Lopez have been horrendous. I believe Okafor's the hole in the starting lineup. Size and athleticism are critical in the NBA and Okafor has neither.
acidbasesalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 04:02 PM   #24
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
SixersFan76 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

Uhmm, okay. Trade kickers waived routinely - including Kevin Garnett waiving his to go to Boston, but there are some rules that prohibit waiving it when it's not mandated by salary cap necessity, but that's an idiotic argument. If the Sixers make the trade to save money, why are you counting a 15% trade kicker the Sixers aren't paying? That makes no sense.

Dalembert is due $11.36 and $12.2 = $23.56

Radmanovic is due $6.47 and a player option he's guaranteed to exercise at $6.89. Mohammed is due $6.47 and $6.89. Total about $26.7. Why are the Sixers going to eat over $3 million to get two guys who can't play and they have no need for, one of whom is also a malcontent?

Dalembert also rescinded his trade demand. Many players have made those, including Radmanovic, twice!

Again, the suggestion that Sixers would trade Dalembert for Mohammed and Radmanovic makes zero sense.

As for Diop, they tried playing him with Okafor at first - why did they trade for him in the first place? Is it because they didn't have an overpaid back up center? Wait, they did have one in Mohammed. Why trade for another? Is it because they were desperate to add a true C to the lineup? Just because they made yet another bad move, doesn't mean they didn't try. They didn't play together because Diop stinks.

And Bobcats only have two true centers on the roster - Diop and Mohammed, and one of them would be leaving in a trade, while the other is a 14 minute a game back up.

You can convince yourselves of anything you wish. Won't make this come true. And the Sixers tried to trade Dalembert last season in the middle of the year to exactly one team - Clippers. And they wanted Kaman in return straight up.

If they deal Dalembert for Mohammed and Radmanovic, let me know.

Also, let me know when the Bobcats make the playoffs with a starting line-up of Felton, Bell, Okafor, Wallace and Diaw.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 04:35 PM   #25
catsandheels
I brick open layups
 
catsandheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 85
catsandheels has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

dude seriously why u actin like we actually want this trade to go down can u not read most of the people on here dont really care wat happens.
catsandheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 04:46 PM   #26
~spectre~
You've been 'Smacked!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 883
~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board~spectre~ is popular on this board
Default Re: Dalembert?

Ah, you're using Hoops Hype salaries. They're typically wrong. Notice your own Philly paper quoted 25 over 2 years.

Still...3 ain't 5!

I'm wondering just how much you watched the Bobcats last year to be so sure you're right and those who watched EVERY GAME can be so wrong? How even the actual minutes played together is so wrong?

LOL!

Regardless, as catsandheels said we don't want to do it either...so I'm wondering what you're still arguing about? Keep Dalembert! Hopefully he retires a Sixer!
~spectre~ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009, 05:32 PM   #27
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
SixersFan76 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

Philly paper also noted there is nothing to this rumor and that it was started on the message board.

Both Radmanovic and Mohammed signed MLE deals. It's easy to figure out their salaries because the MLE is set for players of certain experience.

As far as Okafor being a center, I guess that's why Bobcats had a stiff from Europe playing there, then traded for Mohammed in spite of his terrible contract, then drafted Ajinca in the first round, then traded for Diop and his terrible contract. I suppose they are just crazy and like to have a whole lot of back up centers. Either that, or they would rather play Okafor at the 4.

And did you just compare Dwight Howard to Okafor? Guess what, Hedo Turkogulu is the same size as Dwight Howard and Okafor, I guess he too can play center. I guess length, standing reach, wing span, strength, vertical leap, bulk, etc. all have nothing to do with anything. Give me a 6-10 guy and he's a center.

My point was that I didn't believe the two teams are a good match for a trade and that it didn't make much sense to either one as originally suggested. I didn't start this thread, a Bobcats fan did.

I merely responded that it makes zero sense for the Sixers to do the trade as Bobcats fans extrapolated on - Dalembert for two stiffs who do nothing and have no value and have even worse contracts. That IF by some MAGICAL reason the two teams were talking about this deal, Sixers certainly would not make a deal of just Dalembert for Mohammed and Radmanovic. The other nonsense was again written by Bobcats fans, who have a surprisingly high opinion of a line-up that didn't make the playoffs, and yet have a surprisingly low opinion of the management that put that line-up together and what they feel the team needs as evidenced by their moves and their comments.

Then again, you think Felton isn't going anywhere either and Brown drafted Augustine last year and reports are that Bobcats are looking at a PG in the draft. I guess that goes in line with Okafor being a C and Bobcats loving to have 4 or 5 of those on the roster at the same time. Maybe they plan to have a line up of 5 centers and 5 point guards.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2009, 06:03 PM   #28
LJJ
Extra Cheese
 
LJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 14,882
LJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterLJJ is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Dalembert?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
Philly paper also noted there is nothing to this rumor and that it was started on the message board.

Both Radmanovic and Mohammed signed MLE deals. It's easy to figure out their salaries because the MLE is set for players of certain experience.

As far as Okafor being a center, I guess that's why Bobcats had a stiff from Europe playing there, then traded for Mohammed in spite of his terrible contract, then drafted Ajinca in the first round, then traded for Diop and his terrible contract. I suppose they are just crazy and like to have a whole lot of back up centers. Either that, or they would rather play Okafor at the 4.

And did you just compare Dwight Howard to Okafor? Guess what, Hedo Turkogulu is the same size as Dwight Howard and Okafor, I guess he too can play center. I guess length, standing reach, wing span, strength, vertical leap, bulk, etc. all have nothing to do with anything. Give me a 6-10 guy and he's a center.

Okafor is a natural center.

Here are the facts:
- He has played center his whole life. Only at the start of his NBA career has he been utilized as a PF during stretches.
- He is top 5 in the league for rebounds per game
-Okafor also weighs more than Dalembert for instance.
-He's as much low post player as they come
-He doesn't have the ball handling or passing a PF needs
-He anchors the defense

Where the hell does that scream to you that Okafor is a power forward?
Putting Okafor at PF makes him less effective.

And here you come and say that the Cats trade for all these C's, and thus they think Okafor is a power forward. Yet none of these players share any court time with Okafor, which shits all over any argument you had with that.
Those are the hard facts. You can GTFO, because you cannot back anything up that you post.

Quote:
My point was that I didn't believe the two teams are a good match for a trade and that it didn't make much sense to either one as originally suggested. I didn't start this thread, a Bobcats fan did.

I merely responded that it makes zero sense for the Sixers to do the trade as Bobcats fans extrapolated on - Dalembert for two stiffs who do nothing and have no value and have even worse contracts. That IF by some MAGICAL reason the two teams were talking about this deal, Sixers certainly would not make a deal of just Dalembert for Mohammed and Radmanovic. The other nonsense was again written by Bobcats fans, who have a surprisingly high opinion of a line-up that didn't make the playoffs, and yet have a surprisingly low opinion of the management that put that line-up together and what they feel the team needs as evidenced by their moves and their comments.
You are grouping at least four different people into having the same opinion. Most of us don't want Dalemberts low basketball IQ, bloated contract having ass here at all.

But the situation is that Dalembert wants out, is on the block and that beggars can't be choosers. He is not a valuable piece and the Sixers are not going to get anything valuable in return.

Quote:
Then again, you think Felton isn't going anywhere either and Brown drafted Augustine last year and reports are that Bobcats are looking at a PG in the draft. I guess that goes in line with Okafor being a C and Bobcats loving to have 4 or 5 of those on the roster at the same time. Maybe they plan to have a line up of 5 centers and 5 point guards.

Again, proving your total lack of knowledge. First of all, it's well known that Brown would like to have three capable point guards on this roster. So can you count? Please count the number of PG's on this roster. You just had an epiphany didn't you?

It's also known that Brown is not that high on Felton to begin with, and wouldn't hesistate to upgrade and then ship his ass.

And then I haven't yet mentioned that Felton is not a point guard. He is a combo guard and spends a considerable amount of time at the 2 spot.
But of course this is something someone going by NBA.com and NBA.com only would not know.


Son, you need to go away and watch some games before you try to speak up again.
You cannot play with the big boys if you can't back anything up with facts and show a total lack if basketball IQ.
LJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 09:00 PM   #29
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
SixersFan76 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

Courtesy of ESPN - Dude seriously, make the playoffs, learn what you're talking about, and go learn something about basketball. SO FEEL FREE TO GFYS since you WERE WRONG AGAIN and you talked **** like you knew what you were talking about, which also makes you a D-BAG!

ē A number of reports have surfaced about a potential Bobcats-Sixers trade that would send Samuel Dalembert and the No. 17 pick to Charlotte for Nazr Mohammed, Vladimir Radmanovic and the No. 12 pick.

While I was able to confirm that the Bobcats indeed made the pitch, the Sixers just as quickly shot it down.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2009, 09:39 PM   #30
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
SixersFan76 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Dalembert?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3468083

http://probasketball.about.com/od/nb...mekaokafor.htm

http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/...42&line=100266

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/8698989

http://www.nbadraft.net/node/6155

Brezec, Mohammed, Diop, Ajinca and now trying to trade for Dalembert. All because Okafor is a natural 5. How strange. ESPN, ProBasketball.com, USAToday, CBSsports, NBADraft.net. All fools. Thanks for clearing it all up.

And all because a fan of another team mentioned that Bobcats and Sixers don't seem to match up well in a trade and that Sixers would never trade Dalembert straight up for Radmanovic and Mohammed. Yes, I'm the d*ck, not you.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:18 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy