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Old 10-13-2006, 05:36 PM   #16
fatboy11
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I only understand this trade from the Cavs point of view. They rid themselves of Jackson's salary, unproductive presence on the team, and clear room on the roster of their perimeter players.

The Celts.........why? Jackson goes from one perimeter logjam to another. And that is just another guaranteed salary on an already full roster.
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Old 10-13-2006, 05:41 PM   #17
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[quote=fatboy11]I only understand this trade from the Cavs point of view. They rid themselves of Jackson's salary, unproductive presence on the team, and clear room on the roster of their perimeter players.

The Celts.........why? Jackson goes from one perimeter logjam to another. And that is just another guaranteed salary on an already full roster.[/QUOTE]

another YOUNG player as well. wasn't like this is a guy who can come in and show their youth something they didn't already know...
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Old 10-13-2006, 06:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy11
I only understand this trade from the Cavs point of view. They rid themselves of Jackson's salary, unproductive presence on the team, and clear room on the roster of their perimeter players.

The Celts.........why? Jackson goes from one perimeter logjam to another. And that is just another guaranteed salary on an already full roster.

It's only guaranteed for this season. The Cavs had to pay the Cs an undisclosed sum of money to complete the transaction, and now the Cs have, at worst, a two million-dollar expirer to offer in deals. The Celtics obviously feel, having seen Dwayne Jones in practice and limited game actiion last season, summer league, and training camp, that he isn't going to help the team. So they brought in someone that was highly-regarded a few years ago to see if he can possibly help out. I don't see what's so hard to understand here. A player that you were going to cut vs. a player that probably won't help you, but might. Why not?

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Originally Posted by DoubleTech
another YOUNG player as well. wasn't like this is a guy who can come in and show their youth something they didn't already know...

Since when is getting young players bad for a rebuilding team? And who do you expect to get for Dwayne Jones anyway? He wasn't exactly a valued contributor.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:02 PM   #19
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Luke? Injuries? Get real...fact FACTS, the guy is slow as mollasses and hasnt proven he can SHOOT in the NBA or get his shot off fast enough. It could be a case of him being a solid college player and just a bust at the next level. It happens. Luke is another example. Everyone gets injured, dinged up.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:02 PM   #20
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So Luke Jackson is going to see minutes before Gerald Green and Tony Allen? I don't think so.

You say that they Celtics didn't feel that Jones would help, but obviously the same is true of Jackson and the Cavs. I mean, the guy couldn't distinguish himself from the likes of Sasha Pavlovic, Ira Newble, and Stephen Graham but you think that he might show something when competing for time with Gerald Green, Tony Allen, and Delonte West?

I just don't see it. Maybe insurance for Wally, but I would someone that I know is going to help and, obviously, Luke Jackson probably isn't that person because the Cavs would rather hang onto Ira Newble and Pavlovic. That tells me something.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
Luke? Injuries? Get real...fact FACTS, the guy is slow as mollasses and hasnt proven he can SHOOT in the NBA or get his shot off fast enough. It could be a case of him being a solid college player and just a bust at the next level. It happens. Luke is another example. Everyone gets injured, dinged up.
Co-signed.

I was a big supporter of his coming into his rookie year. I was drinking his kool-aid, if you will. But since he's been in the league, he's either been hurt or buried on the bench. And the Cavs are a team that would love to have a perimeter threat (which he was touted to be) and yet he sits on the bench and is now traded for a guy that probably isn't even NBA caliber.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:12 PM   #22
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Luke Jackson has the talent, he just got injured and he has been stuck on the bench because the coach just likes someone else. Carlos Delfino is another one. He should be getting at least 25 minutes a game for somebody, I don't know WTF Flip was doing playing Maurice Evans ahead of him. Mickael Pietrus too, although Don Nelson may make it happen. Boris Diaw used to be one but obviously that's changed.

I really think Phoenix should have gotten this guy. He is a great athlete and can shoot. He would be like a way more talented James Jones.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy11
So Luke Jackson is going to see minutes before Gerald Green and Tony Allen? I don't think so.

Who said that? Ainge gave up Dwayne Jones, the 4th-string center, to get him. Think about that. You act like this is a major investment. Why? One benchwarmer got traded for another, that's all.

Quote:
You say that they Celtics didn't feel that Jones would help, but obviously the same is true of Jackson and the Cavs. I mean, the guy couldn't distinguish himself from the likes of Sasha Pavlovic, Ira Newble, and Stephen Graham but you think that he might show something when competing for time with Gerald Green, Tony Allen, and Delonte West?

Who are you arguing with here? It can't be me, because you keep on replying to things I never said. I am not saying he's going to replace Delonte west, I'm saying that he's worth trading a player that was going to get cut for. Very simple equation for you, as you appear to be having a hard time here:

A possibly valuable player is of greater value than nothing.

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I just don't see it. Maybe insurance for Wally, but I would someone that I know is going to help and, obviously, Luke Jackson probably isn't that person because the Cavs would rather hang onto Ira Newble and Pavlovic. That tells me something.

Please name a player guaranteed to help that Ainge could have brought in for Dwayne Jones. I can't wait to see this. Tell us all about the great market for Jones, his legions of followers, and broad-based fan appeal. I think I remember hearing that he lead the NBDL in rebounds. I'm sure that sent his market through the roof. Don't know why Ainge didn't demand LeBron James.

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Old 10-13-2006, 07:15 PM   #24
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Luke Jackson has the talent, he just got injured and he has been stuck on the bench because the coach just likes someone else. Carlos Delfino is another one. He should be getting at least 25 minutes a game for somebody, I don't know WTF Flip was doing playing Maurice Evans ahead of him. Mickael Pietrus too, although Don Nelson may make it happen. Boris Diaw used to be one but obviously that's changed.
So which one does Mike Brown like? Ira Newble, Stephen Graham, or Sasha Pavlovic? Because last time I checked, they're always trying to get rid of those guys. None of them really get consistent or decent playing time for reason.

I'm not buying the injury excuse. From what I've heard, he's been healthy in camp. Obviously didn't get it done. Sad, because he supposedly was at least more talented as those "scrubs".
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:19 PM   #25
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Who are you arguing with here? It can't be me, because you keep on replying to things I never said. I am not saying he's going to replace Delonte west, I'm saying that he's worth trading a player that was going to get cut for. Very simple equation for you, as you appear to be having a hard time here:

A possibly valuable player is of greater value than nothing.
Okay, he was traded for a guy that was going to cut. But yet he probably isn't going to play himself and he makes more money. What is the point?

Why not just cut Jones and invest in the other guys they already have at his position instead of furthering the logjam?

I still do not see the point. I get your logic. Great. Yay, the Celtics won the trade. But did they really? What's the point if the guy is still going to be buried on the bench? All they did, to me, was help the Cavs get rid of Jackson's salary. So, to me, the Cavs won this trade by dumping the bust.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:28 PM   #26
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I guess to understand why the Celtics did this trade, I would have to believe that Luke Jackson was half-way worth a sh!t. I simply do not, though.

I mean, if you want a swingman that has the potential to contribute, why not sign one of these guys that is probably about to get cut from another camp? Why not a Matt Barnes, a Rawle Marshall, a Casey Jacobson, a Laron Profit, etc.? Why not a guy that is cheap and has PROVEN that they can come in and play half-way decent at the drop of a hat?
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:28 PM   #27
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So which one does Mike Brown like? Ira Newble, Stephen Graham, or Sasha Pavlovic? Because last time I checked, they're always trying to get rid of those guys. None of them really get consistent or decent playing time for reason.

Don't ask me. All I know is, Mike Brown is an idiot.

Really, NBA coaches have weird biases. Perhaps Brown just likes Newble's and etc.'s hustle. Luke is a smooth player, not very hustling.

You might as well ask why Dion Glover and Josh Childress were getting more minutes than Boris Diaw. Or why Maurice Evans gets more than Carlos Delfino.

NBA coaches do some stupid, stupid things.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:29 PM   #28
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What's there to "invest?" If Jackson isn't worth playing then he's not going to take minutes from Green and the others, and if he does play then great, the Celtics got an upgrade. If Jackson doesn't get buried on the bench it would just be someone else. Big deal. We still have some fine candidates for the waiver wire around here. Akin Akingbala, Kevin Pittsnoggle, Leon Powe and Allan Ray probably aren't going to do anything this year. At the absolute worst, Luke Jackson's 2 million-dollar deal can help balance out a larger trade, as so long as he gets no qualifying offer it's an expiring contract. So what's wrong with bringing the guy in? Nothing, really.
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Tubbs
Don't ask me. All I know is, Mike Brown is an idiot.

Really, NBA coaches have weird biases. Perhaps Brown just likes Newble's and etc.'s hustle. Luke is a smooth player, not very hustling.

You might as well ask why Dion Glover and Josh Childress were getting more minutes than Boris Diaw. Or why Maurice Evans gets more than Carlos Delfino.

NBA coaches do some stupid, stupid things.
Well, then I guess I hope Luke Jackson pans out and makes me look stupid. I argued about this worthless trade way too much for it to turn out to be just that. I'd rather be wrong than right on this one.

War Luke Jackson!
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Old 10-13-2006, 07:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Tubbs
Don't ask me. All I know is, Mike Brown is an idiot.

Really, NBA coaches have weird biases. Perhaps Brown just likes Newble's and etc.'s hustle. Luke is a smooth player, not very hustling.

You might as well ask why Dion Glover and Josh Childress were getting more minutes than Boris Diaw. Or why Maurice Evans gets more than Carlos Delfino.

NBA coaches do some stupid, stupid things.

So if Luke doesnt do anything more than he has in Clevland you will see what me & fatboy does or will it be another idiot coach who doesnt know how to use this talented basketball player you and others seem to see.
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