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Old 06-29-2009, 01:59 PM   #1
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Default Artest

Ric Bucher sees Artest as a good fit for the Lakers:

Its an Insider account article so must won't be able to follow the link.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...ory?id=4293663

Quote:
Ron Artest, SF, Rockets (UFA)
His Game: A matchup nightmare because of his 3-point shooting, handle and physical ability to take contact and still score. Enlivened by defensive challenges, his strength, tenacity and deceptive agility -- even if it has diminished -- make him a rather aggravating cover guy.

Right System: Half-court game with a calm, communicating coach adept at exploiting offensive mismatches. A team with a solid decision-making star who has enough game to command Artest's trust and respect.

Wrong System: My-way-or-highway coach without a star bigger than Artest, one that demands its small forward make plays or one that has no chance at the playoffs.

Best Fits: Lakers, Rockets, Celtics, Cavaliers

I think it could work assuming Artest is willing to take the MLE. It would likely mean Trevor coming off the bench. Ideally I would prefer Artest off the bench, but I am not sure he would do that. If he were to come off the bench it would greatly increase the offense of the second unit. I think playing Artest, Odom, Pau/Bynum with whoever else would make for a second unit better than most teams first units.

I know Artest is a head case, but he seemed in control last year. Also he respects Kobe/LO, we just won the Championship, and Phil's ability to deal with unique personalities I think he would be ok.

What are your thoughts?
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Artest

No, I want Odom over him anyday and Ariza too matter of fact.
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Artest

Even if his attitude changed and hes professional from now on, from a basketball standpoint he takes terrible shots.

the last thing we need right now is chemistry problems. I'd rather pay Ariza an extra few million than get artest for the MLE.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Artest

I would take Ron over Ariza any day...But this is not going to happen...Ron brings that swagger this laker team been missing..
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA.MJ&KB#1
I would take Ron over Ariza any day...But this is not going to happen...Ron brings that swagger this laker team been missing..

Missing swagger? They won the championship this year didn't they?

Artest is a different kind of defender than Ariza. Ariza helped us win 2 crucial games against denver because he pressured inbounds passes that gave us sealed victories basically. The type of defense Artest plays wouldn't have forced those steals.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Artest

Prefer Ariza and Odom over Artest. But I do respect Artest's game. I would not want to bring his ego/personality into my locker room though.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Missing swagger? They won the championship this year didn't they?

Artest is a different kind of defender than Ariza. Ariza helped us win 2 crucial games against denver because he pressured inbounds passes that gave us sealed victories basically. The type of defense Artest plays wouldn't have forced those steals.
don't miss understand me Lakerfreak but, the lakers was missing the kind of swagger i like to see especially in the PO "It called the bad boy image" like the Piston was know for...and yes we won the championship but you and me thought Magic would beat our Lakers in the finals.

These are some things I like to see in a TEAM:

Confidence (knowing you are better then other teams)
Chemistry (Knowing your role on the court)
Swagger (Chest Bumping and High Five's on the court) Plus Ron in your face
Luck (Is part of the game like Ariza inbounds passes to seal a victory)
Toughness To put fear in others...

My opinion Ron want hurt this team...
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Artest

the man is a mental case, he brings swagger? lol no what he brings is a serious lack of judgement, the type of judgement championship teams don't need... this is one reason why the rockets sat at home and watched the WCF's from their couch.

game 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw6WrZsdyjc
game 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4ux8nHRDQ

i am always still amazed, season after season this man finds ways to screw things up for his team and yet there are those that refuse to see what has been clear as day since he came into the league... the man despite having great skills is a train wreck...

there' is a reason he will never be on a top flite team, championship level teams don't take on guys who carry that type of baggage... tha'ts why he's destined to be on teams like the pacers, kings rockets bulls.. teams thathave nothing to lose by his being there, teams that have no realistic chance of getting over the hump can gamble on him. if it pans out good, but if he blows it, like he always does then you have lost nothing because there was nothing to lose in the first place.

and don't go down the phil can control him road...
phil does not nor has he ever controlled players, he gives them free reign to be themselves, play hard act like a pro. players like rodman are not comparable to artest, rodman was a free spirit but always controlled himself on the floor. artest has no self control.

the rockets had the lakers on the ropes and artest blew it for them, not just in ejections, but his technical fouls and horrible playmaking when he was on the floor cost the rockets an upset series win. thank god for ron artest without him there is no lakers parade
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Artest

I think Ron Artest is worth a thought when we can't sign Trevor Ariza.
(in my opinion we MUST sign Odom)
And then Artest could be the best player we can get instead of Ariza.
But first lets see if we can bring both CHAMPIONS back.
be patient and enjoy the sommer as fans of the best team.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Artest

@ Ron Artest srewing it up:
in the first video he couldnt hold his temper. he should have. but i understand him: getting ellbowed in the throat and then it s your foul => tough to swallow

in the second video again a wrong call by the refs. i am with JVG, thats no flagrant. but no way it is a flagrant2. hard fouls are important in the playoffs. and if he once will play for the lakers (see my posting above) you will like it when he takes this fouls. (i loved it when Bynum fouled hard in the finals, because and1s because of lame fouls are killing your defense)
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Artest

Dennis Rodman.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Artest

Not another Ron Ron thread! Absolutely a bad move for the Lakers. This is a guy who continuously makes bad decisions as well as cant control himself.

He plays very good defense I will say, BUT he can often get carried away with the guy he is guarding and ends up taking himself out of games. Look at the regular season games, where Kobe got under his skin and Ron Ron started taking frustration fouls. He's too old for that.

He'll shoot you out of twice, maybe three times as many games as he'll come up with a great game to carry a team. Look at the playoffs, after a very good first two games where he shot 16-29, he had a solid 3rd game 10-23, then a horrible last 4 games, 17-61. He's like Sasha in a way, he just doesnt know when not to shoot.

He's unpredictable, you never know when he is going to meltdown and I dont just mean getting himself ejected. He easily gets knocked off his game mentaly and thats just as bad.

I'd rather have Luke Walton playing than Artest.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexthegod
I'd rather have Luke Walton playing than Artest.

Uh, wow. Having Artest is a worse idea than I previously thought.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
the man is a mental case, he brings swagger? lol no what he brings is a serious lack of judgement, the type of judgement championship teams don't need... this is one reason why the rockets sat at home and watched the WCF's from their couch.

game 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw6WrZsdyjc
game 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4ux8nHRDQ

i am always still amazed, season after season this man finds ways to screw things up for his team and yet there are those that refuse to see what has been clear as day since he came into the league... the man despite having great skills is a train wreck...

there' is a reason he will never be on a top flite team, championship level teams don't take on guys who carry that type of baggage... tha'ts why he's destined to be on teams like the pacers, kings rockets bulls.. teams thathave nothing to lose by his being there, teams that have no realistic chance of getting over the hump can gamble on him. if it pans out good, but if he blows it, like he always does then you have lost nothing because there was nothing to lose in the first place.

and don't go down the phil can control him road...
phil does not nor has he ever controlled players, he gives them free reign to be themselves, play hard act like a pro. players like rodman are not comparable to artest, rodman was a free spirit but always controlled himself on the floor. artest has no self control.

the rockets had the lakers on the ropes and artest blew it for them, not just in ejections, but his technical fouls and horrible playmaking when he was on the floor cost the rockets an upset series win. thank god for ron artest without him there is no lakers parade

Also wanted to comment on the no-swagger part.

Derek Fisher displayed toughness when he had run his body into Scola and people applauded him for this.

Kobe displayed it by never backing down after an artest confrontation both in the playoffs, and regular season.

Pau Gasol was fouled hard several times, once by artest, once by pietrus and he never stepped down and played scared. It motivated him to want to kick the other team's ass even more.

Odom didn't back down when Garnett went to him earlier in the year saying "dont ****in touch me". Odom instead responded with "I'll do whatever the **** I wanna do, whatcha gon do about it?"


this team is absolutely fine for what they offer. They have a little bit of everything and a lot more toughness than before. We don't need Ron on this team.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
1)the man is a mental case, he brings swagger? lol no what he brings is a serious lack of judgement, the type of judgement championship teams don't need... this is one reason why the rockets sat at home and watched the WCF's from their couch.

game 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw6WrZsdyjc
game 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-4ux8nHRDQ

2)i am always still amazed, season after season this man finds ways to screw things up for his team and yet there are those that refuse to see what has been clear as day since he came into the league... the man despite having great skills is a train wreck...

there' is a reason he will never be on a top flite team, championship level teams don't take on guys who carry that type of baggage... tha'ts why he's destined to be on teams like the pacers, kings rockets bulls.. teams thathave nothing to lose by his being there, teams that have no realistic chance of getting over the hump can gamble on him. if it pans out good, but if he blows it, like he always does then you have lost nothing because there was nothing to lose in the first place.

3)and don't go down the phil can control him road...
phil does not nor has he ever controlled players, he gives them free reign to be themselves, play hard act like a pro. players like rodman are not comparable to artest, rodman was a free spirit but always controlled himself on the floor. artest has no self control.

4)the rockets had the lakers on the ropes and artest blew it for them, not just in ejections, but his technical fouls and horrible playmaking when he was on the floor cost the rockets an upset series win. thank god for ron artest without him there is no lakers parade

I personally do not like Artest much, but there are a few things I completely disagree with in your post:

1) The primary reasons why the Rockets sat on the sidelines during WCF was due to 2 reasons: a) Artest was FORCED to be their #1 option once Yao/T-Mac both went down. He is at best a 3rd option, and he is not capable of being a first option on a team. b) Lakers were a superior team with depth + teamwork. Rockets were hurt and not good enough as a team to keep up with the healthy Lakers. I do not understand why you would blame Artest for not beating the Lakers. You will not win that argument (even though you said Artest was one of the reasons and not the main reason). More on this later.

2) Artest has a short fuse, I agree. Unfortunately, I do not agree that Artest is the one to blame for his teams not making playoff season after season. Lets look at his past teams: Bulls 99-02, Indy 01-06, Kings 05-08, Houston 08-09. Bulls were in rebuilding mode with all young players once Jordan/Pippen/Kerr/etc were all gone so you can't blame Artest for Bulls not winning his first 3 seasons. Kings were also basically in rebuilding mode so it was not exactly Artest's fault that Kings did not win anything. For Houston not going very far, I already explained the reason for that up top. Now for the Pacers, they actually did reach the finals one season and they were a pretty successful team if we just look at their # of wins, etc a season after Artest arrived. They went downhill fast after their 2 seasons (1 of which they made it to the finals). Artest was traded off the season after that whole fight in Detroit. This is the worst thing that Artest has done, and this incident completely destroyed Artest's rep for good.

3) Phil has done plenty over the years to keep his players calm. For example, I read someplace that he actually has his players do some yoga or something during practices. I did not read any of Phil's books, but I know he talks about some of the zen practices he learned from various people that he brings into the locker room. If all of that is true, I think he can help Artest focus better than what Ron's past coaches may have been able to. I think Artest's problem is his short fuse and also not being able to stay focused; almost like ADHD(but I think Artest is able to control it if he tried to). Anyways, Zen meditation techniques are very useful when trying to learn how to keep composure, etc. I believe Jackson was one of the reasons why Kobe/Shaq were able to be so successful (Phil actually talks about it in one of his books). Kobe/Shaq hated each other much of their years together in LA. I think Phil is capable of teaching some of his zen techniques, which can help Artest be able to keep his composure. Plus, if he is winning games, it's not like he will be going after opposing players. I think if Artest can keep himself under control, he can help us win games.

4) Similar to my response earlier at #1. I am surprised you are still blaming Artest for the Rockets blowing that series. I do not agree at all that Artest was one of the biggest reason that Rockets lost the series. From the 2 games that Artest was thrown out, 1 game was not winnable. Game 2 - Lakers up 11 points w/ under 7 mins to go when Artest was ejected. Game 3 - Lakers up 8 with 43 seconds to go (was actually 11 point game before Artest hit a 3pt shot with 47 seconds to go). And Yeah, Artest had horrible playcalling but that is to be expected when he is pushed up to #1 option. Artest is NOT able to excel as the #1 option and NEVER was able to. As I said, he is at best a #3 option. He was forced to do something that he is not capable of. With the Lakers, Kobe does almost all of the playcalling. All Artest would have to do is play defense and hit open shots. That is NOT the only thing that Artest had to do with any of his past teams. His responsibility was much greater with the Bulls/Pacers/Kings/Rockets once Yao was down. I do not see what point you are trying to reach by putting the blame on Artest's shoulders for the Rockets not defeating the deepest and best overall team in the league. The Rockets lost as a team and if they had a healthy Yao or T-Mac, we would not even be having this discussion now. If either (or both) had played, Artest would have looked much better as a player since he would have been #2 or #3 option instead of being forced to be the #1 option on an injured team.

Anyways, this was a mad long post. At the end of the day, I think if the Lakers are willing to use up their MLE and if Artest is willing to sign for MLE, I would have no problem with Artest coming to the Lakers. FIRST priority is still signing BOTH Odom and Ariza. I would still take both Odom and Ariza at this point over Artest without a question. Secondary priority is trying to possibly get rid of Vujacic or Farmar's contract with some trade. The third and final priority could be to try and acquire Artest. I personally do not see it happening because the Rockets will probably give Artest more money than MLE, and the Lakers really do not want to go too far into the luxury tax.

Last edited by bladefd : 06-29-2009 at 06:47 PM.
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