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Old 06-30-2009, 01:21 AM   #31
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
A player never ever ever goes into the stands PERIOD.


That is easy to say unless you are put in the position. While Artest was wrong, I can tell you right now that if my wife, kids, mother etc. were in the stands being threatened I would be in the stands in a heartbeat. PERIOD
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Old 06-30-2009, 01:41 AM   #32
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Default Re: Artest

To Badefd:

I do have to agree with GTS in the respect that a professional athlete should never go into the stands under any circumstances. No excuses. Self defense from a plastic cup/bottle? Seriously? A ton of athletes have had stuff thrown at them and 99.999999% do not go into the stands to defend themselves. You just dont do it. Regardless if he threw the first punch or not, when a player goes into the stands your asking for trouble. Thats why you dont go into the stands period.

Ron blew a gasket plain and simple. He was 100% wrong. Its happened before, its happened after, and it will most likely happen again.

For all those who think signing Ron, Ron is a good idea, just remember how Dennis Rodman worked out for the Lakers at the end of his career.

Just remember its not "if" he blows a gasket in the future , its "when" he blows a gasket in the future. He just cant control himself.

Even though Kobe threw an elbow at him, you just cant get youself kicked out of a playoff game like that! Remember when Raja Bell closelined Kobe? Kobe kept his cool and did not retaliate. He's learned his lesson, Ron, Ron hasnt.

Pau took some cheap shots and barked a few guys, but kept his cool.

As for the DFish elbow to Scola....that was a bad play and not everyone praised him for it, I'd say it was more 50/50. He most definately deserved the suspension. But its a lot easier to forbive a guy like DFish who doesnt have that kind of tract record.

Thats my blast for the day lol.
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:00 AM   #33
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwhizard
Prefer Ariza and Odom over Artest. But I do respect Artest's game. I would not want to bring his ego/personality into my locker room though.
true+kobe and artest are one of the biggest player rivalrys so thats not happening
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexthegod
To Badefd:

I do have to agree with GTS in the respect that a professional athlete should never go into the stands under any circumstances. No excuses. Self defense from a plastic cup/bottle? Seriously? A ton of athletes have had stuff thrown at them and 99.999999% do not go into the stands to defend themselves. You just dont do it. Regardless if he threw the first punch or not, when a player goes into the stands your asking for trouble. Thats why you dont go into the stands period.

You have to remember one thing though: The situation was already completely out of hand. Ben Wallace was still trying to run at Artest while he was just lying down on the table. The crowd was all up cursing and screaming at every player. Artest was far from calm even though he was lying down. At the heat of the incident, somebody decides to throw a bottle. As pissed as Artest was already, somebody decided to put him past his level of control (yeah, he was keeping himself under control before that beer bottle flew at him). I don't want anyone to think that I condone violence, but it just annoys me when people blame Artest completely for him going into the stands. You are just asking for it with that bottle and a mad Artest. It is like waving a red cloth in front of an angry bull at a Rodeo. The Bull will charge at you if you wave that red cloth, and you are basically ASKING for it to charge you.

Now was it right for Artest to go into the stands? I am not saying he did the right thing or not, but in that kind of situation, you have to throw right and wrong out the window. Even the numerous cops and security guards couldn't do ANYTHING to control the situation so they had to pull out the pepper spray. Even Rasheed was forced to go into the stands to pull fans back from top of Artest. I mean think about it for a moment: Rasheed trying to stop a fight that a bunch of the opposing team+his team was involed in?? The completely unexpected happened that day. We can sit here all day and argue that Artest was completely wrong and players should never go into the stands, but don't forget that we were not in that situation. I don't think any of us have been involved in the middle of that big of a fight with 50-60 people involved to really say what is right and what is wrong in that situation. My point: the right and wrong changes depending on the situation. There is no right and wrong written down in a book that you have to follow and especially in a fight of that magnitude, what you believe to be right and wrong completely vanishes.

Anyways, I hope you guys can understand what I am trying to say here. Just remember that I am not an Artest fan - just saying what I saw with that fight. And GTS, I never once said that Artest does not lack judgment. When he gets angry, it is like letting loose the beast from its cage. What I said though is that if the Lakers sign him for MLE, Phil Jackson and winning could help Artest out quite a bit. I am not going to reiterate everything I said on page 1 again [so you can go read about how the Zen master might be able to help Artest if we somehow get him].
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Old 06-30-2009, 05:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: Artest

/\ /\

Yep every once in a while players loses their head, I remember when a Dodger player went into the stands and choked out a fan lol. These are super rare situations, you'd just hope that these guys would be more professional about things.

Artest gets judged harder because of his track record. Just like Milton Bradley in baseball is a head case that will never get the benifit of the doubt. And frankly why should they? Its not like either one of them ever showed any restraint or could control their tempers.

I see what you are saying about just calling it as you see and that you arent an Artest fan. I can see the difference between Ron the player and Ron the person. Unfortunately his personal side greatly outwieghs his player side, resulting in a waste of talent in my opinion.
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:09 PM   #36
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Default Re: Artest

bladefd i understand yourt point and it's valid if it was a one time incident or if he learned a lesson and he towed the line from that moment on... but he had 12 incidents before that moment and 12 more after that.. he got suspended for a season and learned nothing...

you think all those injuries are real? those are ron finding ways to flake out...

here's a question not asked yet...
why? why would the rockets do anything to make the lakers better? what do the lakers have that the rockets need?

Last edited by gts : 06-30-2009 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 06-30-2009, 08:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: Artest

Why do some of you guys keep bring up Ron's "bad things" Maybe we should post Kobe "bad situations" I think the next time someone post Ron Ron as a bad person I will post Mr. Kobe history....

Plus nobody in this forum could say what they would do in certain situation...
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Old 06-30-2009, 09:06 PM   #38
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
bladefd i understand yourt point and it's valid if it was a one time incident or if he learned a lesson and he towed the line from that moment on... but he had 12 incidents before that moment and 12 more after that.. he got suspended for a season and learned nothing...

you think all those injuries are real? those are ron finding ways to flake out...

here's a question not asked yet...
why? why would the rockets do anything to make the lakers better? what do the lakers have that the rockets need?



alright. (Raises hand)



I would like to go 1st.


Can I start with Championship?

Yes. Championship?
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:28 AM   #39
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Default Re: Artest

to say you don't want Artest because of "character" is just something that doesn't make sense to me


lets face it, Kobe has been a horrible 1st option in terms of the go to guy for a while, all that complaining to the refs? c'mon

I'd take Artest within 2 mils of Ariza in a heartbeat, he's just a better player than Ariza period. We need to make educated and smart basketball decisions. The fact is even when Yao went down, Houston put up a good fight, because of Artest himself.

You want to talk about the past? Go for it, it's 2010, don't show me sh!t about 2005 or even 2007, he's matured as a person and as a player, and between overpaying Ariza and getting Artest at a cheap price, I hope to go Mitch is rational enough to make the educated decision.

No more Artest is a cancer bull sh!t, he's a good basketball player, and if he comes at a price at just 2mil over what Ariza is asking for? To say you don't want him, you must just not know basketball...
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:37 AM   #40
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwliuLAP
to say you don't want Artest because of "character" is just something that doesn't make sense to me


lets face it, Kobe has been a horrible 1st option in terms of the go to guy for a while, all that complaining to the refs? c'mon

I'd take Artest within 2 mils of Ariza in a heartbeat, he's just a better player than Ariza period. We need to make educated and smart basketball decisions. The fact is even when Yao went down, Houston put up a good fight, because of Artest himself.

You want to talk about the past? Go for it, it's 2010, don't show me sh!t about 2005 or even 2007, he's matured as a person and as a player, and between overpaying Ariza and getting Artest at a cheap price, I hope to go Mitch is rational enough to make the educated decision.

No more Artest is a cancer bull sh!t, he's a good basketball player, and if he comes at a price at just 2mil over what Ariza is asking for? To say you don't want him, you must just not know basketball...

Alright well you want to talk about educated bball decisions? Artest is a better player for sure.

But with Ariza as our starter, we won the championship and he helped in many crucial games. How do we for sure know Artest, Kobe, and Pau will coexist?

An educated decision would be to keep Ariza because he's proven in this system. Artest is not, and Im not willing to find out if he is as long as we keep Ariza.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:13 PM   #41
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Alright well you want to talk about educated bball decisions? Artest is a better player for sure.

But with Ariza as our starter, we won the championship and he helped in many crucial games. How do we for sure know Artest, Kobe, and Pau will coexist?

An educated decision would be to keep Ariza because he's proven in this system. Artest is not, and Im not willing to find out if he is as long as we keep Ariza.


Completely agreed. But Ariza wants a big paycheck and if we can get Artest within 2 mils of what Ariza would be asking for, I don't see why we shouldn't

I'd love to resign Ariza, but in the end, I'm not willing to pay him 8-9 mil per year, if he comes at the price of 6 mil, sure, but I'm not sure his agent will let him do that.
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Old 07-01-2009, 12:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwliuLAP
Completely agreed. But Ariza wants a big paycheck and if we can get Artest within 2 mils of what Ariza would be asking for, I don't see why we shouldn't

I'd love to resign Ariza, but in the end, I'm not willing to pay him 8-9 mil per year, if he comes at the price of 6 mil, sure, but I'm not sure his agent will let him do that.

First off, this Ariza demanding big $$$ is BS. Its his agent David Lee trying to drive his price up. As I stated before there really are ony a couple of teams who can offer him more than the MLE and thats really where his value is at this point anyways. So Trevor and his A-Hole agent have no position of power.

Second, he really wants to come back, so I can see him taking a little less to be happy.

Third, it doesnt matter if Artest is the better player, it matters how a guy fits into a system and how well he plays within that system. Ariza is a much better fit than Artest and that is why Ariza is the clear choice if its between those two.

Artest needs to have the ball to be effecitve, likes to domintate it at times. Ariza can do his damage off the ball.

Artest takes ill advised shots way too often and at times becomes a chucker. Ariza doesnt do either.

Artest HAS NOT matured. He is mentally weak. Ariza is mature beyond his age.

Artest is 29, Ariza is 23

Artest LOVES attention, can he handle being 3rd, 4th, or even 5th fiddle in LA?
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:33 PM   #43
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Default Re: Artest

People who are questioning Rons character need to relax a bit.....He has done nothing in past 2 years after the palace brawl.....come on this kid is what 30 yet?

we judge them like they are 40yr old with all the maturity in the world playing. they are 20 something players.....I bet I would go in the stands too if somebody is fighting with my teammates & talking trash....

People learn for their mistakes...gosh...how many dumb things have u done in ur life? its so easy to criticize other people

Need to Chill
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:43 PM   #44
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
People who are questioning Rons character need to relax a bit.....He has done nothing in past 2 years after the palace brawl.....come on this kid is what 30 yet?

we judge them like they are 40yr old with all the maturity in the world playing. they are 20 something players.....I bet I would go in the stands too if somebody is fighting with my teammates & talking trash....

People learn for their mistakes...gosh...how many dumb things have u done in ur life? its so easy to criticize other people

Need to Chill
100% agree
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:53 PM   #45
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Default Re: Artest

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexthegod
First off, this Ariza demanding big $$$ is BS. Its his agent David Lee trying to drive his price up. As I stated before there really are ony a couple of teams who can offer him more than the MLE and thats really where his value is at this point anyways. So Trevor and his A-Hole agent have no position of power.

Second, he really wants to come back, so I can see him taking a little less to be happy.

1)Third, it doesnt matter if Artest is the better player, it matters how a guy fits into a system and how well he plays within that system. Ariza is a much better fit than Artest and that is why Ariza is the clear choice if its between those two.

2)Artest needs to have the ball to be effecitve, likes to domintate it at times. Ariza can do his damage off the ball.

Part of 2)Artest takes ill advised shots way too often and at times becomes a chucker. Ariza doesnt do either.

3)Artest HAS NOT matured. He is mentally weak. Ariza is mature beyond his age.

Artest is 29, Ariza is 23

4)Artest LOVES attention, can he handle being 3rd, 4th, or even 5th fiddle in LA?

Few points I disagree with:

1) How do you know Artest does not fit well into the LA system? That is speculation, my friend. We know for sure that Ariza is a good fit into the Lakers system, but at this point you can't say that Artest does not fit well into the Lakers system since he has never played in it. For all we know, Artest could be a better fit than Ariza? Not saying he is but just playing devil's advocate for a moment.

2) I do not agree that Artest NEEDS the ball to be effective. That is a misconception after what we saw in the playoffs this year and some reg season games. T-Mac was out much of the season, and Yao took multiple games off, which forced Artest to handle the ball much more as their #1 option. I admit though, Artest did take 4-5 horrible shots each game (but so does Kobe so you can't bring down Artest just for that). Still, I cannot consider him a ball-chucker

3) He is not as bad as he was back in the 03-07 time-frame. He is slowly growing out of it (or it seems that way). I mean he still might do couple things out of pure rage the last couple seasons, but he is not the only one that has a short fuse lol. Anyways, he definitely has matured a bit, and I think the Lakers locker is fairly good recently. I doubt there will be problems in there with Artest there. Kobe is the only one w/ a huge ego (and he is not anywhere close to as big of a d!ck as he was earlier in his career) but outside of that it is fine.

4) Back when the Pacers had a championship-calibre team, Artest was clearly their 2nd option (Well, his first season, he wasn't a top 5 option). In clutch situations, Reggie Miller was usually pushed up to #1 or #2 option ahead of Artest even in his last couple seasons. The Pacers team was not ANYWHERE close to being as good as the current Lakers squad. Artest would not be a 2nd option on the current Lakers squad which brings me to my next point. Artest (after he signed with the Rockets) said that he does not mind being behind T-Mac and Yao. I guarantee you Artest would not mind being the 3rd or 4th option in LA. As long as he gets ~7-8 shots per games, I doubt he will cry about not being a top 3 option on the team. Honestly, I think people like Kobe/Shaq/LeBron/etc have a much bigger ego than Artest, and those are the people that would mind not getting a specific amount of shots per game.
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