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Old 07-03-2009, 04:17 PM   #16
Laker Magic 32
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Can we keep this Plascke article on file and then make 5.6 million copies to send him next June?
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobesabi
Kobe is a hot head person who argues and get Technical foul alot...Artest is another. That worries me.

So he's suppose to be the new Dennis Rodman under Phil?

I believe Artest will be a good solider under Kobe just like Kobe became a good solider under Phil.

Artest brings so much stuff to the table I don't even want to waste energy typing all the stuff he brings... I think another member made a pretty full list.

One of the best things I like about this trade is that now this team has an "emotional leader". Before Kobe filled this role but Artest seems like the more emotional guy. Just imagine him screaming his heart out on every possession in the playoffs next year. Look out KG!
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Old 07-04-2009, 03:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Well, I was talking to this friend of mine, who is a hardcore Rockets fan (probably watched almost every Rockets game). He said Rockets fans would probably have taken Artest back again with open hands in a heart-beat if Yao wasn't so screwed up. Right now, Rockets may be planning on rebuilding possibly, and Ariza is better for the long haul than Artest. He told me that Artest played solid defense for them throughout the season. Artest did make a bunch of boneheaded plays here and there.

Offense is where even he said Rockets fans had a love/hate relationship for Artest. When either T-Mac or Yao Ming (or any other Rocket for that matter) was shooting good, Artest would pass the ball around and played within the system. As soon as the Rockets offense went stagnant and nobody was scoring, Artest would often try to take over by jacking up shots. Even when both T-Mac/Yao Ming were both playing and not making any shots, Artest would shoot every time he got the ball just to try and bring Rockets out of the drought. Sometimes, that actually made things worse than what it was already. Honestly, I think the Lakers offense is better and more consistent overall than the Rockets offense so I wouldn't worry too much about it (exception is 3rd quarter - Lakers cannot score first 6-7 mins of 3rd quarters). As long as the Lakers offense is going smooth, we shouldn't worry about Artest jacking up terrible shots. Just hope that we don't go on too many droughts - if we do, I expect some of us to start blaming Artest for losing games just by looking at his shooting % and amount of shots.

That is very similar to what Kobe does. When the Lakers are playing bad offense and missing shot after shot, Kobe often tries to take over by jacking up shot after shot to hopefully bring the Lakers offense back to rhythm. The only difference is that Kobe is a better overall shooter than Artest, and his shooting excels under pressure. Same can't be said for Artest.

Last edited by bladefd : 07-04-2009 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 07-04-2009, 05:46 PM   #19
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Artest will be fine under the triangle. He went to Saint Mary's... a very prestigious school and has a high basketball IQ.

Artest is also use to playing 2nd or even 3rd fiddle. This is not the Malone/Payton trade all over again because Artest has been there before.

He played 2nd and even 3rd fiddle in Indiana behind Reggie and O'Neal, even in Houston he had to play behind Yao and Tmac but the thing is is that Ron Ron has it in him to step up when the time is needed. When Yao and Tmac went down it was Ron who stepped up to the plate, the same can be said of him in Indiana.

Don't worry my brothers, this is a great deal for us. 3 years for 6 mil per year?

GANGSTA
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

moved fron the Shannon Brown thread, good read thanks bladefd

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladefd
I think it might have been "The Artest Effect" article by John Hollinger. I couldn't find it on ESPN.com, but here is a small image I got out of another article in ESPN Magazine ( http://ronartest.com/Article_ESPN.pdf ) The entire original article could be anywhere on espn.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
Very nice post bladefd. I propped you for that.

Last edited by gts : 07-04-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 07-04-2009, 07:13 PM   #21
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Default Re: Artest a mistake (Article)

I like this quote by Artest, From Dime Mag:



Quote:

Dime: Does touring and recording during the summer take away from your offseason workouts?

ARTEST: I've been doing this a long time. I went on tour all last summer and I had a pretty good start; I was averaging 22 points at the start of the season, but then I had to bring my average down because my team wasn't playing no defense. So I had to sacrifice my offense for defense, because my team wasn't playing no defense. I had 27 one game, we lost by 30. If you wanna win a championship, you gotta stop somebody. I could've averaged 25-30 points, but sometimes I gotta lead by example and show them that defense is how you win it.


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Old 07-04-2009, 09:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladefd
Well, I was talking to this friend of mine, who is a hardcore Rockets fan (probably watched almost every Rockets game). He said Rockets fans would probably have taken Artest back again with open hands in a heart-beat if Yao wasn't so screwed up. Right now, Rockets may be planning on rebuilding possibly, and Ariza is better for the long haul than Artest. He told me that Artest played solid defense for them throughout the season. Artest did make a bunch of boneheaded plays here and there.

Offense is where even he said Rockets fans had a love/hate relationship for Artest. When either T-Mac or Yao Ming (or any other Rocket for that matter) was shooting good, Artest would pass the ball around and played within the system. As soon as the Rockets offense went stagnant and nobody was scoring, Artest would often try to take over by jacking up shots. Even when both T-Mac/Yao Ming were both playing and not making any shots, Artest would shoot every time he got the ball just to try and bring Rockets out of the drought. Sometimes, that actually made things worse than what it was already. Honestly, I think the Lakers offense is better and more consistent overall than the Rockets offense so I wouldn't worry too much about it (exception is 3rd quarter - Lakers cannot score first 6-7 mins of 3rd quarters). As long as the Lakers offense is going smooth, we shouldn't worry about Artest jacking up terrible shots. Just hope that we don't go on too many droughts - if we do, I expect some of us to start blaming Artest for losing games just by looking at his shooting % and amount of shots.

That is very similar to what Kobe does. When the Lakers are playing bad offense and missing shot after shot, Kobe often tries to take over by jacking up shot after shot to hopefully bring the Lakers offense back to rhythm. The only difference is that Kobe is a better overall shooter than Artest, and his shooting excels under pressure. Same can't be said for Artest.
pretty good post. I didn't get to see a lot of Artest games but from about 15 games i've seen, I think the observation is pretty accurate.
But one game that stood out the most was the game in Chicago, where he started shooting pretty well, but got out of control in the last 7-9 mins of the game, where he took like 10 shots, mostly forced and didn't bother to fee Yao the ball. Rockets eventually lost control of the game after leading for most of the 2nd half.
The thing is there would be always risks of hiring volatile players like Ron, but I think it would not be disastrous if he doesn't work out. It's not like the Lakers commited 12-15 mil per year-long term to this guy.
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Artest a mistake (Article)

They key is that Ron was expected to be a leading scorer in his last two teams. It was quite clear that in Houston he was to be the second scorer, after Yao. So having the green light to be a main score maker, he felt compelled to 'help' his team as saw fit, which was an attempt at shooting them back in the game. In Sac Town the same concept applies.

Now its very reasonable to think that when he opted to come to the Lakers, he was fully aware that they had the number one and number two main shooters filled. Im sure he will feel compelled to fall right in line when Phil asks him to 'be yourself' and play the stellar D that you play. Much like Rodman, what Phil does best, is not attempt at changing a player, but maximising his better assets. Like with Farmar, he went so far as to incorporate a fast break tempo in the second unit... in order to play to Jordans strenghts. So with Artest, I think phil will tell him to play aggressive, be defensive... and behind closed doors, I think he will candidly ask of him to be the teams enforcer.


And Ron will end up having no issue with 'Keeping It Real' 'Being Himself' and 'Locking Down His Assignment'.

Last edited by ZeN : 07-05-2009 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:11 AM   #24
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Default Re: Artest a mistake (Article)

Yeah, I don't get why people think Artest will be the same chucker.

He was a focal offensive point in Sacramento and Houston. He doesn't need to do that in LA and it's clear he understands that, an Artest that's focused on defense and a Kobe that's on offense is just plain scary. Artest will do anything to please Kobe toom I don't see this big ego clash that haters are expecting. If Kobe/Shaq could win 3 titles, then why not these guys?
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: Artest a mistake (Article)

This was a great move. This sets the lakers up to win repeat and hopefully 3peat
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:27 AM   #26
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
moved fron the Shannon Brown thread, good read thanks bladefd

wow thats a pretty impressive statistic. Look at how much of a difference he made with the kings. Its like he just concentrated on locking one player down and look what a difference even that made. The kings have always been a horrible defensive team.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:43 AM   #27
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Default Re: Artest a mistake (Article)

i'm glad the lakers made a move because i rather have lakers + artest then old lakers vs. these new teams ex: cavs + shaq or magic + VC or spurs + RJ.
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:48 AM   #28
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by triangleoffense
wow thats a pretty impressive statistic. Look at how much of a difference he made with the kings. Its like he just concentrated on locking one player down and look what a difference even that made. The kings have always been a horrible defensive team.
it is a good number but it needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt, and alot of investigation needs to be done as to why that number is it what it is...

there's a number of factors to look at with that number, who was his replacement? who came on the floor when he left? who else left the floor during that rotation? does that pace change dramatically, usually pace slows down when the subs hit the floor...

also what type of team is he on? raja bell put up monster numbers like that when he was with the suns because he was the only one defending and that makes a huge difference, now the same guy is putting up half the numbers in a different city did he get better or worse, probbly stayed the same it's the team around him that changed, he's on a team that has a coach that stresses defense from all his players so the let off will not be as dramatic, heck he may even be defending better than ever but it's just not going to show up because he surrounded by guys doing the same thing..

what i do is look at that number then compare to other players in the league with better numbers or numbers like that and you see it's good an bad, like is lamar a better defender then artest
acording to that stat not only is he better but he's quite a bit better! and he's also better than kobe by a mile
this past season lamar was -8 on defense 4th in the league
artest ws -4.7 22nd and kobe well he is on the positive side meaning acording to that stat the lakers play better defense with him off the floor...lol

so take it for what it's worth, just another stat that needs to be really picked apart to find it's value... what it is good for is comparing the player to himself in different situations with different lineups and all

Last edited by gts : 07-05-2009 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:14 AM   #29
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisoner
Artest brings to the Lakers...

Another lock down defensive player
He can hit 3's spread the floor
He can also be used in the post dude is strong
He can grab boards
Artest is mean...who will call LA soft now?
Artest is a fierce competitor just like Kobe and Fish
He has good ties with Lamar
Most of all Artest is hungry for a ring

The article wrote is bullsh*t....

Let's hope for a healthy season for this Lakers team next year...and for Phil
If all that happens we will retain the title straight up.

GO LAKES!!!!!!!!!

To me he's just a stronger, bigger, more experienced Ariza.

Let's not forget, Ariza really didn't do squat in Orlando except for this season/playoffs.

What Ariza did for our team this year, ron ron is more than capable of doing also.
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Old 07-05-2009, 03:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: Artest a mistake

Quote:
it is a good number but it needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt, and alot of investigation needs to be done as to why that number is it what it is...

oh believe me I understand more than anyone, correlation does not prove causation and all that nonsense.
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