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Old 07-30-2010, 10:37 PM   #31
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanders2021
Anderson would've been nice to have on this current team we have right now, but without trading the pick (and Kirk) we wouldn't have this current team. I think the trade needed to be made and the team has definitely improved after shedding Hinrich's contract.

We would've been stuck with Kirk (who was superfluous and not at all a viable answer at SG) and not able to pick up anything near the quality we got this offseason.

That said, Ronnie Brewer has a decent shot at being at least a semi-long term answer at SG for this team, but I think you're correct in asserting that we need to acquire a traditional scoring 2 guard sometime soon.
I would rather have Kirk than Brewer CJ watson and the extra 3million. That's my opinion though. To me Anderson+kirk=better than Brewer, watson, 3million-ish.
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:59 AM   #32
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

BG
Kirk
Crawford
Sefolosha
Artest [could have been a 2 or 3 when we drafted him]


We do draft SG's but seeing as though we've had a glut at guard in recent years we haven't needed to draft one.
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:02 AM   #33
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

I've watched a lot of Brewer's games and I think Bull's fans will be pleasantly surprised by his ruggedness, hustle, attitude, and finishing ability.

The kid puts down some great dunks and doesn't need much room to take off.
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:59 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

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Originally Posted by IN-PAX-WE-TRUST
not to nit pick here, but Vince Carter and Ginobili are not superstars and McGrady is a SF... it's just a tough position to fill... Kobe, Wade, Roy are the only real impact SGs in the league right now.

Three rings, two as a key player on team. Also led the only team in recent history to defeat Team USA for the gold medal back in '04. He is also the 4th best SG in the league after Roy, and his impact on the game is actually greater than Roy's, he just plays less minutes.

He's not a star, how exactly?
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:25 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinJackal
Three rings, two as a key player on team. Also led the only team in recent history to defeat Team USA for the gold medal back in '04. He is also the 4th best SG in the league after Roy, and his impact on the game is actually greater than Roy's, he just plays less minutes.

He's not a star, how exactly?
I don't think he's the 4th best. I mean. Kobe Wade Roy Joe Johnson and one could argue Iggy or k-mart. I think he's 5th-7th But I believe his point is that he's on the wrong side of 30
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Old 08-02-2010, 07:07 AM   #36
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

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Originally Posted by Rose
I don't think he's the 4th best. I mean. Kobe Wade Roy Joe Johnson and one could argue Iggy or k-mart. I think he's 5th-7th But I believe his point is that he's on the wrong side of 30

Wade and Kobe, yes. Roy. . .sure okay. JJ? In the reg season maybe, but dude's a playoff choker. Ginobili is also way better than both K Mart and Iggy. Those guys are overrated, and their styles of play are better suited on a playground than in the NBA. Their "type" of player is extremely overrated in general. I though people stopped overrating athleticism years ago. Especially in Chicago after the whole Curry debacle.

Iggy has done nothing. K Mart has done nothing but coattail ride other players who were actually making the teams go (namely, Kidd and Billups). I can't believe you actually said K-Mart is arguably better than Ginobili. Are you crazy?

Wrong side of 30 or not. Ginobili was having a good year last year, in the reg season and playoffs. He was averaging 20/4/6 in the playoffs. His season averages were down a bit due to nursing an injury while playing most of the season. Look at his game logs towards the end of the season. 20 20+ point games in he last 2 months, with 5 30+ games and 1 40+, usually getting 5-7 assists per game, and very few bad shooting nights. He's far from done. Not everyone ages at the same speed. Manu hasn't played that many games/seasons.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:27 AM   #37
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

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Originally Posted by Rose
I would rather have Kirk than Brewer CJ watson and the extra 3million. That's my opinion though. To me Anderson+kirk=better than Brewer, watson, 3million-ish.

Really? Kirk wasnt that great of a player. Brewer can handle the ball just as well. Brewer is much bigger and can guard opposing 2's and 3's. CJ watson has a really good midrange and hits 3's and drives to the rim. Anderson hasnt even played in the NBA yet.lol We need to get off kirk he is gone thank the lord and now we dont have to worry about midget SG's....
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:24 AM   #38
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drwax26
Really? Kirk wasnt that great of a player. Brewer can handle the ball just as well. Brewer is much bigger and can guard opposing 2's and 3's. CJ watson has a really good midrange and hits 3's and drives to the rim. Anderson hasnt even played in the NBA yet.lol We need to get off kirk he is gone thank the lord and now we dont have to worry about midget SG's....

Weirdly enough Kirk Hinrich can guard 2s and 3s pretty effectively too! In fact that's actually what he's known for! Also Kirk hinrich is a MUCH more effective shooter. and yeah CJ watson he does some nice things offensively! woooooooo! and he's also only 6'2. So he's definitely a bench guy only. and only at point guard. and James Anderson hit the most threes last season. There's only one thing for sure that carries over from college, shooting Redick got drafted that high because of it. And it's not like he has a low release like Ammo, so that's not going to stop him either.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:31 AM   #39
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinJackal
Wade and Kobe, yes. Roy. . .sure okay. JJ? In the reg season maybe, but dude's a playoff choker. Ginobili is also way better than both K Mart and Iggy. Those guys are overrated, and their styles of play are better suited on a playground than in the NBA. Their "type" of player is extremely overrated in general. I though people stopped overrating athleticism years ago. Especially in Chicago after the whole Curry debacle.

Iggy has done nothing. K Mart has done nothing but coattail ride other players who were actually making the teams go (namely, Kidd and Billups). I can't believe you actually said K-Mart is arguably better than Ginobili. Are you crazy?

Wrong side of 30 or not. Ginobili was having a good year last year, in the reg season and playoffs. He was averaging 20/4/6 in the playoffs. His season averages were down a bit due to nursing an injury while playing most of the season. Look at his game logs towards the end of the season. 20 20+ point games in he last 2 months, with 5 30+ games and 1 40+, usually getting 5-7 assists per game, and very few bad shooting nights. He's far from done. Not everyone ages at the same speed. Manu hasn't played that many games/seasons.

I agree in the playoffs gimme Ginobili any day over Joe jo. And My case for K-mart being better is he's a better shooter, and he's not bad defensively, he's obviously not great. But I really don't think that Manu is anymore. Intangibly I give it to Manu again hands down. My Iggy argument is 17-6.5-5.8. is pretty good. Manu obviously had an injury riddled year, but I think that some of it is he's naturally aging now. I think that Manu's style of play is finally catching up on him and you can see it by the fact, he rarely dunks anymore. He always seems to be missing some games every year, and he's never 100% healthy. and by K-mart I meant Kevin Martin not Kenyon?
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:43 AM   #40
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

I've also noticed that the Golden Warriors have always had luck finding undrafted gaurds playing in the D-League and they end playing well in the league.


The Bulls should try that. Its usually some decent guards their.
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:35 PM   #41
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
Weirdly enough Kirk Hinrich can guard 2s and 3s pretty effectively too! In fact that's actually what he's known for! Also Kirk hinrich is a MUCH more effective shooter. and yeah CJ watson he does some nice things offensively! woooooooo! and he's also only 6'2. So he's definitely a bench guy only. and only at point guard. and James Anderson hit the most threes last season. There's only one thing for sure that carries over from college, shooting Redick got drafted that high because of it. And it's not like he has a low release like Ammo, so that's not going to stop him either.

Kirk didnt guard the best 2's and 3's that well and in fact he would get into a lot of foul trouble when guarding those players. When he did guard them it wasnt for very long. Kirk is a career low 40s % shooter and brewer a career 50s %. Which means the shots they take brewer is much more effective. Which also shows kirk took a lot of ill advised shot hence such a low shooting % or for the most part he just isnt that great of a shooter. We only need Watson playing the 1 unless he gets spot minutes at the 2 for very limited time. Like i said before Anderson hasnt even played in the NBA so you dont know how it will translate u can assume based on trends but u dont know until he hits the floor and he hasnt. Ppl need to get off of Kirk Hinrich and accept him for what he was which is a hardworking PG, that can play some D, and hit an occasional shot. He was nothing special and has already easily been replaced.
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:44 PM   #42
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

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Originally Posted by drwax26
Kirk didnt guard the best 2's and 3's that well and in fact he would get into a lot of foul trouble when guarding those players. When he did guard them it wasnt for very long. Kirk is a career low 40s % shooter and brewer a career 50s %. Which means the shots they take brewer is much more effective. Which also shows kirk took a lot of ill advised shot hence such a low shooting % or for the most part he just isnt that great of a shooter. We only need Watson playing the 1 unless he gets spot minutes at the 2 for very limited time. Like i said before Anderson hasnt even played in the NBA so you dont know how it will translate u can assume based on trends but u dont know until he hits the floor and he hasnt. Ppl need to get off of Kirk Hinrich and accept him for what he was which is a hardworking PG, that can play some D, and hit an occasional shot. He was nothing special and has already easily been replaced.

You do remember who guarded Pierce in the small ball lineup against the celtics? Who has to lock down wade? or kobe? Wasn't deng! wasn't rose! wasn't gordon! wasn't sefo! Okay sefo tried lebronze but that was more of tyrus' thing. Kirk did!

Next as for shooting. Look who takes more shots? Ronnie Brewer or Kirk Hinrich? Kirk does, could that explain the difference yes. look at where they take their shots. Brewer mostly dunks and line-ups. Hinrich 3's, long-ish 2's and some layups. Does that clearly make my argument? NO of course not. BUT what matters is. what is the ONE thing this team needs? Another three point shooter. Brewer shoots low 20s. Hinrich shoots high 30s. Which isn't great, or even really good. But it's better than Brewer. Plus who's the captain? Kirk. Who gets more rebounds? Kirk, assists? Kirk steals? Brewer barely. Blocks? same number. Next You could have points. Who gets more points? Kirk. So congrats!!!! Ronnie brewer wins in height...and shooting percentage overall blocks by .2!!!! meanwhile Kirk is better in 3s made, 3%, Assists, Steals, Points. CJ watson at point...yeah he's cool he averages 2.4 assists there. Find me ONE all i want is ONE college player who could shoot well in the NCAA and hasn't made it in the NBA. I even gave you the two most recent "busts" and they're still in the NBA because they can shoot.

Face it. Kirk is better in almost every facet of the game. And we could still have boozer and korver. Kirk Boozer Korver James Anderson >>>>>>>>>>>>Boozer Korver CJ watson Ronnie Brewer.
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:00 PM   #43
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

Jon Scheyer?
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:06 PM   #44
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

I liked Kirk too but your perception of him is off base.

"locked down" D Wade? Wade destroys us.

It's hard to compare different player in different systems.

But Brewer is a much better finisher, rebounder, thief, and is on the same level defensively.

Kirk pretty much bought his own ticket out of town with his poor shooting. His percentage was alright but when actually looking at the games he hardly ever hit shots when we NEEDED them.

You will be pleasantly surprised by Brewer. He's not going to lock down Kobe or Wade or hit a lot of threes but he's tough and he gives good effort.
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:22 PM   #45
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Default Re: Why the Bulls never draft a SG.

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Originally Posted by Go Getter
I liked Kirk too but your perception of him is off base.

"locked down" D Wade? Wade destroys us.

It's hard to compare different player in different systems.

But Brewer is a much better finisher, rebounder, thief, and is on the same level defensively.

Kirk pretty much bought his own ticket out of town with his poor shooting. His percentage was alright but when actually looking at the games he hardly ever hit shots when we NEEDED them.

You will be pleasantly surprised by Brewer. He's not going to lock down Kobe or Wade or hit a lot of threes but he's tough and he gives good effort.

Okay let's say he doesn't lock down wade. speaking of which! http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300206004 meh 20 points from Wade. GARBAGE DEFENSE.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=291101014 Ugh 25. AND a combined effort From Salmons and Kirk.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300312014 booooo 22! Goddamn he sucks ass at defense.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300325004 and 12 points! HE SCORED IN 29 MINUTES OF ACTION that's it I'm with you guys Kirk Hinrich is the worst defender in the NBA. I want him sent to his home, to NEVER EVER EVER touch a basketball again. He's garbage

And then in the SECOND MOST IMPORTANT game all season. a MUST win vs the Celtics... HOW DARE THAT ASSHOLE KIRK HINRICH DROP THIRTY POINTS. I am ashamed he was EVER a bull. Especially when people say that He outrebounds and outsteals New Wave Jesus Ronnie Brewer!!!!
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ronnie...eer_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kirk_h...eer_stats.html
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