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Old 06-13-2010, 11:39 PM   #106
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMac&Luther
Nope....eat a dick and die. Hakeem might be the most complete basketball player of all time and this is coming from someone who was old enough to see the guy play in his prime.

Hakeem is actually underrated due to the whole "Jordan retired crap" and the fact that his best shot at titles early was derailed, because of crackheads.

The man was a straight all time great beast....just as good as any all time great player...stop hating.
This comment proves the threads point. Most complete player of all time
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:42 PM   #107
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnax1
This comment proves the threads point. Most complete player of all time

steals, blocks, rebounds, elite athleticism, not to mention his complete offensive game and complete defensive game where in his prime he could defend against guards and was one of the best post defenders of all time....as well as recording two quadruple doubles (one of which was stolen from him)

Instead of laughing would you care to suggest a more complete player?

I would love to hear your response.

LOL at Jazz fan, doesn't the mail man have a 13 year old slot to stuff somewhere?

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Old 06-13-2010, 11:45 PM   #108
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
All I do is point out his flaws. I wouldn't have to if you didn't overrate the shit out of him. I only started when you started spewing your fanboy crap about Wilt having a 48" vertical(you don't still believe that, do you?) or your fantasy of him averaging 40/20 on 60% in 2000.

Yeah, my posts are idiotic because I don't believe a career 51% free throw shooter had Kevin Garnett type range(20 feet).

Give it up, I've destroyed all of your pathetic posts. Stop while you still have some dignity. Like I said, you must be either Wilt's illegitimate son or a former groupie. There's no other explanation. Either that or you're mentally handicapped.

http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html

Quote:
[Carl Braun said] "He [Wilt] disorganizes you under the basket the same way [as Bill Russell, on defense]. With Wilt, of course, there's that offense on top of it, which is better than Russell's. He hit on all those jumpers."
"Yes, Wilt hit on those jumpers...Wilt did come into the league with a good touch from the outside, which made his early scoring that much more significant. He wasn't just dunking the ball then."

--Red Holzman. A View from the Bench. P.70


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dunk

Quote:
Wilt Chamberlain was known to have dunked on an experimental 12-foot basket set up by Phog Allen at the University of Kansas in the 1950s.[4] Michael Wilson, a former Harlem Globetrotter and University of Memphis basketball player, matched this feat on April 1, 2000 albeit with an alley-oop. Dwight Howard dunked on an 11ft 6in basket in the 2009 NBA dunk contest also off an ally-oop.

Jim Pollard[5], Wilt Chamberlain[4], Julius Erving, Clyde Drexler, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant, Stromile Swift, Shawn Kemp, Grant Hill, Darrell Griffith, Korleone Young, Edgar Jones, LeBron James, James White, Vince Carter, Jason Richardson, Jamario Moon, Chris Webber, Dwight Howard, Mike Conley, Jr., Brent Barry and Al Thornton have each dunked while jumping from around the free throw line, which is 15 feet from the basket. Unlike the others, Wilt Chamberlain did not require a full running start, but instead began his movement from inside the top half of the free throw circle.[4]

Of course, YOU came up with something like a 32" vertical, and Fatal9 even posted a 24"...BOTH of which were laughable considering that Wilt was long-jumper, a triple-jumper, and a high jump CHAMPION in college.

Wilt averaging a 40-20 .600 in 2000???

Well, based upon taking Wilt, from 61-62, and transporting him to 99-00...

The NBA in the 61-62 season took 108 FGAs and 37 FTAs per game. And Wilt's Warriors grabbed 64 rpg. In the 99-00 NBA, the league averaged 82 FGAs per game, and 25 FTAs, per game. And Shaq's Lakers grabbed 47 rpg.

Even for allowing Wilt to shoot .506 in 99-00, which he CLEARLY would have done better against the LEAGUE AVERAGE...

Wilt takes 29.6 FGA, makes 14.8, takes 11.5 FTAs, and makes 7. 14.8 x 2= 29.6 + 7= 36.7 ppg. And, take Wilt's 25.7 rpg down to the league that Shaq played in, and he gets 18.9 rpg.

Of course, that was NOT a PRIME Wilt, either, one who absolutely OVERWHELMED the NBA in his 66-67 season (24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, .683 shooting, 7.8 apg, and probably the leading shot-blocker as well.) Or who was nearly as great in 67-68 (when he also led the NBA in assists.) True, he did not score as much...BUT, he had several 40 pt games (including a 43 point game on 18-18 shooting), as well as games of 52, 53, 53, 58 (on 26-34 shooting), and 68 points. Add in his two 60+ games in '69, (the 66 point game came on 29-35 shooting BTW), and CLEARLY, the man could have scored MUCH more.

What would have a PRIME Wilt, circa 66-68, have done to the clowns who manned the pivot in the 99-00? (and only playing the good ones 2-4 times a year...unless, of course, they missed games...something that Wilt hardly EVER did in his CAREER.)

But, unfortunately for Wilt, he faced Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, Russell, NINE times each that year. He didn't get to routinely face the caliber of player like Ostertag, or Curry, on an almost nightly basis.

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Old 06-14-2010, 12:11 AM   #109
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Anyone who rates him above Shaq, overrates him.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:20 AM   #110
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
http://wiltfan.tripod.com/quotes.html




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dunk



Of course, YOU came up with something like a 32" vertical, and Fatal9 even posted a 24"...BOTH of which were laughable considering that Wilt was long-jumper, a triple-jumper, and a high jump CHAMPION in college.

Wilt averaging a 40-20 .600 in 2000???

Well, based upon taking Wilt, from 61-62, and transporting him to 99-00...

The NBA in the 61-62 season took 108 FGAs and 37 FTAs per game. And Wilt's Warriors grabbed 64 rpg. In the 99-00 NBA, the league averaged 82 FGAs per game, and 25 FTAs, per game. And Shaq's Lakers grabbed 47 rpg.

Even for allowing Wilt to shoot .506 in 99-00, which he CLEARLY would have done better against the LEAGUE AVERAGE...

Wilt takes 29.6 FGA, makes 14.8, takes 11.5 FTAs, and makes 7. 14.8 x 2= 29.6 + 7= 36.7 ppg. And, take Wilt's 25.7 rpg down to the league that Shaq played in, and he gets 18.9 rpg.

Of course, that was NOT a PRIME Wilt, either, one who absolutely OVERWHELMED the NBA in his 66-67 season (24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, .683 shooting, 7.8 apg, and probably the leading shot-blocker as well.) Or who was nearly as great in 67-68 (when he also led the NBA in assists.) True, he did not score as much...BUT, he had several 40 pt games (including a 43 point game on 18-18 shooting), as well as games of 52, 53, 53, 58 (on 26-34 shooting), and 68 points. Add in his two 60+ games in '69, (the 66 point game came on 29-35 shooting BTW), and CLEARLY, the man could have scored MUCH more.

What would have a PRIME Wilt, circa 66-68, have done to the clowns who manned the pivot in the 99-00? (and only playing the good ones 2-4 times a year...unless, of course, they missed games...something that Wilt hardly EVER did in his CAREER.)

But, unfortunately for Wilt, he faced Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, Russell, NINE times each that year. He didn't get to routinely face the caliber of player like Ostertag, or Curry, on an almost nightly basis.
Stop posting your fantasy numbers. The game is slower today and have more back to backs. He wouldn't be able to sustain 30 and 16. He wpildn't even get that much shot attempts.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:41 AM   #111
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
Stop posting your fantasy numbers. The game is slower today and have more back to backs. He wouldn't be able to sustain 30 and 16. He wpildn't even get that much shot attempts.

You still posting that nonsense about more back-to-backs?????

Didn't you read my response the FIRST time????

Wilt played FIVE games, in FIVE days for cryingoutloud, as well as TWO the four-straight game sets, as well as TEN three-in-a-rows, as well, as 22 B2B's, which were more than Shaq had in 99-00. Oh, BTW, Wilt missed a TOTAL of 8 minutes and 33 seconds that ENTIRE season.

As far as "fanatasy numbers"...what were his numbers back then???

When Wilt came into the league, the record for ppg was 29.2 ppg. The record for rebounding was 23.0 rpg.. And the record for FG% was .490.

All he did in his 14 seasons, was to SHATTER every one of them, some several times over. AND, after he retired, NO ONE else came close to ANY of them. In his 14 years he DESTROYED every major scoring, rebounding, and FG% record.

Why ONLY Wilt?

Idiots here say that he wouldn't get 29 FGAs in a game today, DESPITE the fact that MJ had 28 in his best season, and Kobe 27 in his. Or that even Shaq, and Olajuwon have had games of over 30. Kareem routinely shot 30+ FGAs in games...where are HIS records? Or that, aside from ONE season, by Baylor, NO ONE else shot more than 30 FGAs DURING Wilt's era. Or that, aside from ONE season, by Bellamy, NO OTHER CENTER had ONE season over 20 FGAs DURING Wilt's career, until Kareem came along.

Rebounding? Yep, 6-8 Rodman could get 19 rpg in the 90's, but these Wilt-haters can't see a 7-1, high-jump champ, and probably the strongest basketball player of all-time,...who holds virtually every major rebounding record, and who outrebounded EVERY opposing center in his 29 post-season series, and who averaged 25 rpg in the post-season, while Rodman averaged less than TEN...they just can't accept the fact that Wilt would shatter Rodman's rebounding marks had he played in the same era of weak-rebounding centers.

FG%? No way Wilt would shoot .600 or more in TODAY's game...despite offensively challenged players like Dwight Howard doing it. While Wilt was shooting .727 in a season in which the league averaged .456, or .683 in a league that averaged .441...

PLEASE.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:48 AM   #112
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

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Originally Posted by plowking
Anyone who rates him above Shaq, overrates him.

LOL, when did Hakeem EVER play with a player like Kobe or Wade? I'm not saying Hakeem should be above Shaq, but if he played with those players........he'd win multiple rings...just like Shaq.

BTW..."Penny" Hardaway was Kobe and Wade when Hakeem swept a prime Shaq......but everybody forgets about that. The truth is, is that Shaq has played with the most dominant swing men throughout his entire career......and that is even without adding Nash and LeBron.

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Old 06-14-2010, 12:59 AM   #113
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
Of course, YOU came up with something like a 32" vertical, and Fatal9 even posted a 24"...BOTH of which were laughable considering that Wilt was long-jumper, a triple-jumper, and a high jump CHAMPION in college.


Here's Wilt sprinting and going all out to the point where he falls and his head still isn't at the rim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=849_WdqJ8o8#t=3m20s

And that's probably the closest I've seen his head to the rim. Now, Shaq coming out of LSU recorded a 36" max vertical at the 1992 pre-draft camp. Here you can see that with a standing vert, his head is damn near rim level. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m33s

340 pound 28 year old Shaq, his shoulder isn't that far from rim level! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s

Have YOU ever seen Wilt jump that high? If so, post the footage.

Here's Greg Oden who is shorter than Wilt but recorded a 32" standing vertical and a 34" max vert. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8fv810QfY8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7HzkEcKITo#t=0m59s

Look how explosive a center with even a 34" vertical looks.

Dwight Howard has a 9'3.5" standing reach and touches 12'6" here so we know he has a 38.5" vertical. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCNK6VaBXeY

You're telling me Wilt not only jumped higher than all of them, but a foot higher?

Quote:
Wilt averaging a 40-20 .600 in 2000???

Well, based upon taking Wilt, from 61-62, and transporting him to 99-00...

The NBA in the 61-62 season took 108 FGAs and 37 FTAs per game. And Wilt's Warriors grabbed 64 rpg. In the 99-00 NBA, the league averaged 82 FGAs per game, and 25 FTAs, per game. And Shaq's Lakers grabbed 47 rpg.

Even for allowing Wilt to shoot .506 in 99-00, which he CLEARLY would have done better against the LEAGUE AVERAGE...

Wilt takes 29.6 FGA, makes 14.8, takes 11.5 FTAs, and makes 7. 14.8 x 2= 29.6 + 7= 36.7 ppg. And, take Wilt's 25.7 rpg down to the league that Shaq played in, and he gets 18.9 rpg.

Except give Wilt a more realistic 40 mpg(which is the most any big man averaged in 2000). One of them was Kevin Garnett who is extremely durable and had to carry a team as much as any superstar.

Wilt's Warriors averaged 129.7 possessions per game, Shaq's Lakers averaged 93.3 possessions per game. Give Wilt the amount of FGA per possession and FTA per FGA in 40 mpg and he averages 30.7 ppg on 24 FGA. Give him the same percentage of his teams rebounds in 40 mpg and he averages 15.9 rpg and 1.8 apg.

And no, it's not clear that he would have shot better. The league average was lower then because of all the quick shots perimeter players took as well as the inferior ball handling skills of perimeter players at the time and the lack of guards who attacked the basket the same way perimeter players do now. Wilt would still be posting up, like he did then except there would be less transition opportunities and....

Every team is involved in a number of blowouts throughout the season, Wilt played every minute of the '62 season except an overtime game where he was ejected. Now even you must admit that means that Wilt was out there stat padding in blowouts, take that away and his stats probably drop even more.

And this isn't about what he would have averaged rather than putting his stats in perspective given the pace and minutes. I personally think he wouldn't be getting up 24 shots per game in 2000 or averaging 30. Even so, I'll admit that Wilt was a better rebounder than Shaq or Kareem, though the margin isn't as big as the initial stats suggest.

Quote:
Of course, that was NOT a PRIME Wilt, either, one who absolutely OVERWHELMED the NBA in his 66-67 season (24.1 ppg, 24.2 rpg, .683 shooting, 7.8 apg, and probably the leading shot-blocker as well.) Or who was nearly as great in 67-68 (when he also led the NBA in assists.) True, he did not score as much...BUT, he had several 40 pt games (including a 43 point game on 18-18 shooting), as well as games of 52, 53, 53, 58 (on 26-34 shooting), and 68 points. Add in his two 60+ games in '69, (the 66 point game came on 29-35 shooting BTW), and CLEARLY, the man could have scored MUCH more.

In '68, he averaged 24 ppg on 17 FGA and 59.5% shooting. Just a year after this '67 version of Wilt that you claim would have averaged 40 ppg on 60% shooting in 2000.

In '66, Wilt with a scoring mentality averaged 33.5 ppg on 54% shooting and 25 FGA, so if he never proved he could average even 30 ppg on 60% shooting back then, it's ridiculous to suggest he could average 40 ppg on 60% now.

And in the playoffs those years? 28 ppg on 51% shooting in '66, 22 ppg on 58% shooting in '67 and 24 ppg on 54% shooting in '68. And keep in mind I'm not slamming Wilt for his production dropping in '67, he was phenomenal that year, even considering the pace, 22/29/9 is phenomenal, but I'm just making a point in response to your ridiculous claim that '67 Wilt could average 40 ppg on 60% shooting in 2000.

What made Wilt THAT much different than the version the year before who averaged 33.5 on 54%? Or the version a year later that averaged 24 ppg on 59.5% shooting. I'm not criticizing his efficiency either year, but I don't see a case for Wilt even averaging 30 on 60% because he never did it, or came particularly close. In fact, he never averaged 30 on 55% shooting.

Quote:
What would have a PRIME Wilt, circa 66-68, have done to the clowns who manned the pivot in the 99-00? (and only playing the good ones 2-4 times a year...unless, of course, they missed games...something that Wilt hardly EVER did in his CAREER.)

Right....clowns. The Duncan/Robinson duo who he would have had to face 4 times in the West as well as Mourning and Mutombo in their primes. And before you say Robinson was washed up.....Look at what Robinson did in the 8 games that Tim Duncan missed. He led them to an 5-3 record and these were his numbers.

21.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 2.4 bpg, 1.3 spg, 53.6 FG%, 75.7 FT%, 32.4 mpg
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:06 AM   #114
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMac&Luther
LOL, when did Hakeem EVER play with a player like Kobe or Wade? I'm not saying Hakeem should be above Shaq, but if he played with those players........he'd win multiple rings...just like Shaq.

BTW..."Penny" Hardaway was Kobe and Wade when Hakeem swept a prime Shaq......but everybody forgets about that. The truth is, is that Shaq has played with the most dominant swing men throughout his entire career......and that is even without adding Nash and LeBron.

1995 Drexler was every bit as good if not better than 2000 Kobe.

And when Olajuwon swept a prime(you mean 3rd year Shaq in his first extended playoff run), Olajuwon's teammates outplayed Shaq's. Olajuwon had 2 teammates score atleast 20 points in every game, Shaq only had 1 such game where 2 teammates scored 20, and that was game 1 when he had outplayed Olajuwon through regulation and almost guaranteed his team a win until Nick Anderson missed 4 straight free throws.

In fact in game 3, Shaq was the only Magic player to score 20 yet the difference was a Robert Horry game-winning 3.

Olajuwon did outplay Shaq, IMO, but not by a lot. Shaq certainly fared a lot better against Hakeem than Robinson or Ewing did. 2000 Shaq vs 1995 Hakeem would be a great matchup.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:17 AM   #115
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manute for Ever!
I have seen some pretty ridiculous comments about the legacy of Hakeem on ISH lately, especially the GOAT centre thread. Does anyone else think he is rapidly becoming overrated on ISH?
The guy got two championships the 2nd by sheer force of will. They were not the best team or the most talented Hakeem just wanted it more. Over rated? Not at all.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:24 AM   #116
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

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Originally Posted by Lebron23
He's a top 10 player of all time.

The Most Skilled Center in NBA History.

This^^
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:26 AM   #117
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
1995 Drexler was every bit as good if not better than 2000 Kobe.

And when Olajuwon swept a prime(you mean 3rd year Shaq in his first extended playoff run), Olajuwon's teammates outplayed Shaq's. Olajuwon had 2 teammates score atleast 20 points in every game, Shaq only had 1 such game where 2 teammates scored 20, and that was game 1 when he had outplayed Olajuwon through regulation and almost guaranteed his team a win until Nick Anderson missed 4 straight free throws.

In fact in game 3, Shaq was the only Magic player to score 20 yet the difference was a Robert Horry game-winning 3.

Olajuwon did outplay Shaq, IMO, but not by a lot. Shaq certainly fared a lot better against Hakeem than Robinson or Ewing did. 2000 Shaq vs 1995 Hakeem would be a great matchup.

Yeah, let's totally toss away the championship Hakeem won without Drexler...it fits your lame argument much better.

And as far as fitting your sorry ass argument...let's ignore the fact that Shaq was at his statistical prime with Hakeem swept him..(or the fact that the only thing Nick Anderson would've contributed to that series would've been another game...whoo hoo a 4-1 game victory!)...... Alot of ignoring of facts going on, huh?

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Old 06-14-2010, 01:43 AM   #118
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMac&Luther
steals, blocks, rebounds, elite athleticism, not to mention his complete offensive game and complete defensive game where in his prime he could defend against guards and was one of the best post defenders of all time....as well as recording two quadruple doubles (one of which was stolen from him)

Instead of laughing would you care to suggest a more complete player?

I would love to hear your response.

LOL at Jazz fan, doesn't the mail man have a 13 year old slot to stuff somewhere?
How about Jordan, Duncan, Kareem, Wilt, and Oscar (his defense was average, but 30-10-10 is definitely a complete player) The idea that Hakeem is the best center ever in his prime, or the most complete player ever is pretty idiotic. He was complete, but not THE most complete player ever.
Hakeem had obvious problems as a player. He was a ball stopper, and while he was a pretty good passer he was very selfish. Sort of like Kobe Bryant is, except as a big man. If he didn't play like that the Rockets would have easily had another ring in 97, but instead their offense was completely stagnant against Utah, and it lost them the series.
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:08 AM   #119
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

ShaqAttack,

I am not wasting space on this forum by copying your long reply. And I am also NOT going to repost the MANY links, and quotes, which verify his incredible leaping ability. If you can't accept a competitive college long jumper, and triple jumper, and high jump CHAMPION having an incredible vertical leap (whatever it may be), then you will never will. And, no we don't have much footage of anything about Wilt (although we do have enough which demonstrates his exceptional shooting ability.) The man played 50-60 years ago, and there just is not much out there.

We do have eyewitness accounts, by very well respected members of thge sports community, of which I have posted before, with him touching the top of the backboard...and touching a ceiling in which the sportswriter estimated that his vertical was at LEAST 42". Why would anyone waste their time with those comments? We also have the NBA outlawing the dunking of FTs, at a time when Wilt was credited with doing it. AND, we have his college coach setting up a 12 ft rim, while Wilt was going there...and we have links on the net which state that Chamberlain dunked on it.

Your footage of Wilt, running at full speed, and supposedly NOT having his head above rim level, is moot...he BLOCKS the shot...AND, he did so more HORIZONTALLY than VERTICALLY.

I have posted the great footage of his shot-blocking abilty before. In it you will see him BLOCKING the shot. What do you want him to do...block the shot with his chest?

AND, in the many debates that we have had on this issue, other's here have posted photos of Kareem and Gilmore, with THEIR heads at rim level (here again, I am tired of taking the time to look them up now)...and we KNOW that Chamberlain routinely outjumped BOTH of them...and he was well past his prime when he did so.

I have also posted footage from a Bulls-Lakers game in 1971, in which Wilt, from a stand-still, and with only a fraction of a second to react, blocks a shot, in which his hand is above the 12 ft mark on the backboard. What does that tell you? Here was Wilt, at age 34, and one year removed from major knee surgery, and at nearly 300 lbs, and without benefit of a running start, and with only a split second to start his jump...reaching 12 ft. In your honest opinion...what would a healthy Wilt, at age 22-28, at between 250-275 lbs, and with a running start, be capable of?

And obviously you believe, like so many here who did NOT see Wilt play...that he was some kind of offensive stumble-bum that merely dunked on helpless, wimpy, 6-6 white centers. Even though there IS limited footage out there which shows Wilt repeatedly hitting jump shots, turn-around jump shots, bank shots, and sweeping hook shots.

And, evidently you will go by the few complete games, most all of which are among Wilt's worst efforts...and accept them as the REAL Wilt....despite the fact that Chamberlain had 55 of the 61 40-30 games in NBA history, or his hundreds of 30-30 games, or his six 70+ point games, or his 32 60+ point games, or his 118 50 point games, or his several "perfect" games (some as high as 18-18), or his seven 40+ rebound games, or his 55 rebound game, or his 23 35+ rebound games, just against Russell, or his 24 40+point games, against Russell, or his 45 point blowout game of Thurmond (who scored 13 points in that game), or his 38-31 game against Thurmond, or his KNOWN 23 block game, or his recorded 25 block game, or his 78-43 game, or his 22-25-21 game, or his 24-32-13-12 game in the ECF's Finals against Russell, or his 29-36-13 game in the clinching game five win over Russell's Celtics in '67, or his...I could go on for hours.

And, you don't have to repeatedly post Shaq's great moves. I SAW Shaq play. I know that he was the most dominant player to have played the game...SINCE Wilt. I have ALWAYS acknowedged his greatness.

Look, I have always felt that Shaq, and Kareem, were two of the greatest centers of all-time. I SAW BOTH of them, in their PRIMES. IMHO, neither were as athletically gifted, nor as skilled as Wilt. Granted, Wilt did not play with Shaq's power, although he most certainly could have, nor did he have Russell's will to win. BUT, there is no question in my mind, that a PRIME Wilt, playing in today's NBA, would be the best center in the league. We can speculate all we want on what his numbers might be. BUT, there is no doubt that he would dominate the league today.

We can continue arguing this until the cows come home...but it won't change a thing. You will only believe what you want to believe. And we will never really know for sure how Wilt would do in today's game, or how Shaq would do in Wilt's era. I'll go by what I actually witnessed, and that was, that there will never be another player like Wilt. His amazing records speak for themselves. The ESPN Generation can come up with all kinds of theories on why Wilt was so dominant...BUT, they can't explain why it was ONLY Wilt that was.

So, you and I will once again, have to agree to disagree.

Last edited by jlauber : 06-14-2010 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:18 AM   #120
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMac&Luther
Yeah, let's totally toss away the championship Hakeem won without Drexler...it fits your lame argument much better.

And as far as fitting your sorry ass argument...let's ignore the fact that Shaq was at his statistical prime with Hakeem swept him..(or the fact that the only thing Nick Anderson would've contributed to that series would've been another game...whoo hoo a 4-1 game victory!)...... Alot of ignoring of facts going on, huh?

And in 1994, he played a team led by a center who also didn't have another star on his team. And Dream's 1994 team didn't have a player as good as 2000 Kobe, but Otis Thorpe>>>>the ancient version of AC Green that started on the 2000 Lakers. 1994 Horry>2000 Rice, Cassell/Kenny Smith>36 yr old Ron Harper and Derek Fisher(who shot 35% in the regular season and was demoted to the Lakers 4th guard in the playoffs, even behind an old Brian Shaw).

So Dream's teammates were better at 3 out of 5 positions so don't start with this teammate crap.

Talking about sorry ass arguments, you say Shaq was in his statistical prime in 1995, well, if we're using stats to determine this, Shaq outplayed Hakeem statistically.

And how do you know what would have happened had Anderson not choked? That completely shifted the momentum and was devastating to a young, inexperienced team.

And Dream (slightly) outplaying Shaq in '95 doesn't mean he had the better career or was better when comparing their primes. You can't say with a straight face that Shaq wasn't better in 2000 and 2001 than he was in 1995.

If you're going to argue, try coming with something better than that weak shit.

Last edited by ShaqAttack3234 : 06-14-2010 at 02:20 AM.
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