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Old 06-14-2010, 08:31 AM   #121
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Gentlemen, I could be wrong, it seems to me that this thread is all about Hakeem "the dream" Olajuwon, instead of Wilt vs Shaq. Shall we go back to the dream Olajuwon please?
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Old 06-14-2010, 08:53 AM   #122
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMac&Luther
Nope....eat a dick and die. Hakeem might be the most complete basketball player of all time and this is coming from someone who was old enough to see the guy play in his prime.

Hakeem is actually underrated due to the whole "Jordan retired crap" and the fact that his best shot at titles early was derailed, because of crackheads.

The man was a straight all time great beast....just as good as any all time great player...stop hating.

Let me clear something up for you and other posters who have taken offence to this thread since it was bumped. I started this thread almost a year ago at time when a poster, whose 30+ ISH accounts shall remain nameless, was making extremely outlandish threads stating that Olajuwon was the GOAT and others were stating he was top 5 all time, etc.
Now, I was always an Olajuwon fan and I loved his game, but it was in response to the general stupidity that was flooding the main board at that time. Yes, he is an all-time great, but you just had to be there when the thread was started (or maybe you are one of those accounts I mentioned ).
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:18 AM   #123
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
You still posting that nonsense about more back-to-backs?????

Didn't you read my response the FIRST time????

Wilt played FIVE games, in FIVE days for cryingoutloud, as well as TWO the four-straight game sets, as well as TEN three-in-a-rows, as well, as 22 B2B's, which were more than Shaq had in 99-00. Oh, BTW, Wilt missed a TOTAL of 8 minutes and 33 seconds that ENTIRE season.

As far as "fanatasy numbers"...what were his numbers back then???

When Wilt came into the league, the record for ppg was 29.2 ppg. The record for rebounding was 23.0 rpg.. And the record for FG% was .490.

All he did in his 14 seasons, was to SHATTER every one of them, some several times over. AND, after he retired, NO ONE else came close to ANY of them. In his 14 years he DESTROYED every major scoring, rebounding, and FG% record.

Why ONLY Wilt?

Idiots here say that he wouldn't get 29 FGAs in a game today, DESPITE the fact that MJ had 28 in his best season, and Kobe 27 in his. Or that even Shaq, and Olajuwon have had games of over 30. Kareem routinely shot 30+ FGAs in games...where are HIS records? Or that, aside from ONE season, by Baylor, NO ONE else shot more than 30 FGAs DURING Wilt's era. Or that, aside from ONE season, by Bellamy, NO OTHER CENTER had ONE season over 20 FGAs DURING Wilt's career, until Kareem came along.

Rebounding? Yep, 6-8 Rodman could get 19 rpg in the 90's, but these Wilt-haters can't see a 7-1, high-jump champ, and probably the strongest basketball player of all-time,...who holds virtually every major rebounding record, and who outrebounded EVERY opposing center in his 29 post-season series, and who averaged 25 rpg in the post-season, while Rodman averaged less than TEN...they just can't accept the fact that Wilt would shatter Rodman's rebounding marks had he played in the same era of weak-rebounding centers.

FG%? No way Wilt would shoot .600 or more in TODAY's game...despite offensively challenged players like Dwight Howard doing it. While Wilt was shooting .727 in a season in which the league averaged .456, or .683 in a league that averaged .441...

PLEASE.
Where did you get these back to back stats from?
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:40 AM   #124
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
I am not wasting space on this forum by copying your long reply.


Yet you type a longer reply......

Quote:
And I am also NOT going to repost the MANY links, and quotes, which verify his incredible leaping ability. If you can't accept a competitive college long jumper, and triple jumper, and high jump CHAMPION having an incredible vertical leap (whatever it may be), then you will never will.

None prove it as fact yet you act like these outrageous claims of Wilt having a 42"-48" vertical are fact. Most likely they are exaggerations. Yes, you have one guy who ESTIMATED Wilt as having a

Quote:
And, no we don't have much footage of anything about Wilt (although we do have enough which demonstrates his exceptional shooting ability.) The man played 50-60 years ago, and there just is not much out there.

Exceptional shooting ability? Come on, he's making some 10-12 foot bank shots in a highlight mix. Since when are 10-12 footers exceptional? You claim he has Kevin Garnett range.....Garnett has regularly hit 18-20 footers and at a high percentage. If Wilt was hitting jumpshots, even from his own range at a Kevin Garnett type percentage, then his inside game wouldn't have been very consistent based on his shooting percentages in his scoring seasons. And of course, Garnett has become an 80% FT shooter while Wilt has always hovered around 50% and at times below 40%. We can't see how consistent that shot is from highlight videos which obviously don't show the misses.

Here, I can show Shaq hitting 3s. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRESlJBbGs

Shaq hitting a faceup jumper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjETgzSbg9k#t=1m12s

But I'd be lying if I said he did that consistently.

Quote:
We do have eyewitness accounts, by very well respected members of thge sports community, of which I have posted before, with him touching the top of the backboard...and touching a ceiling in which the sportswriter estimated that his vertical was at LEAST 42". Why would anyone waste their time with those comments? We also have the NBA outlawing the dunking of FTs, at a time when Wilt was credited with doing it. AND, we have his college coach setting up a 12 ft rim, while Wilt was going there...and we have links on the net which state that Chamberlain dunked on it.

Many also claimed 6'1" Earl Manigault was able to touch the top of the backboard....do you believe that too? You ask why anyone would waste their time with those stories....well people exaggerate stories all the time, especially things that happened so long ago. You've never heard people greatly exaggerate stories to make them sound more interesting?

And as far as I've seen, Wilt was the guy who claimed he could dunk on a 12 foot basket. I've actually never seen one of Wilt's former teammates or his coach verify that the 12 foot basket was even set up and even if it was, that's not even close to proof that Wilt dunked on it. It may have been set up to see if he could or to see how players played on 12 foot rims.

Quote:
Your footage of Wilt, running at full speed, and supposedly NOT having his head above rim level, is moot...he BLOCKS the shot...AND, he did so more HORIZONTALLY than VERTICALLY.

Yet he went all out to the point where he fell after. I just don't see a case for him being able to jump 16 or so inches higher than he did there.

Quote:
I have posted the great footage of his shot-blocking abilty before. In it you will see him BLOCKING the shot. What do you want him to do...block the shot with his chest?

Except I've acknowledged Wilt's great shot blocking ability, I remarked about it in the '67 game available as well as game 5 of the '72 finals. I believe he was an incredible shot blocker, what I don't believe is that he could get his head effortlessly over the rim.

Quote:
AND, in the many debates that we have had on this issue, other's here have posted photos of Kareem and Gilmore, with THEIR heads at rim level (here again, I am tired of taking the time to look them up now)...and we KNOW that Chamberlain routinely outjumped BOTH of them...and he was well past his prime when he did so.

Gilmore was a few inches away. Even his afro doesn't quite make it to the rim.


For what it's worth, Gilmore at his athletic peak probably could get his head at rim level, but that would mean he had a 34" vertical, amazing for a man his size.

I don't think Kareem quite got there in the photo


His head is closer to the camera than the rim and with his afro he doesn't quite make it. Doesn't mean he couldn't, but he'd need "only" a 33" vertical to accomplish this.

And still photos aren't as a reliable. Looks like Ralph Sampson could have done it and as we've agreed, he was more like 7'2" barefoot and 7'3" in shoes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGj4W9V-wCk#t=0m13s

And how do you know Wilt at that point could out-jump them in a jumping contest?

Quote:
I have also posted footage from a Bulls-Lakers game in 1971, in which Wilt, from a stand-still, and with only a fraction of a second to react, blocks a shot, in which his hand is above the 12 ft mark on the backboard. What does that tell you? Here was Wilt, at age 34, and one year removed from major knee surgery, and at nearly 300 lbs, and without benefit of a running start, and with only a split second to start his jump...reaching 12 ft. In your honest opinion...what would a healthy Wilt, at age 22-28, at between 250-275 lbs, and with a running start, be capable of?

Well I did see Wilt going all out with a running start. And if he had a standing reach of 9'7" and touched 12' then that means he jumped 29" assuming your estimate is correct. But of course, that's not exact, what are you basing the 12' estimate on?

And I'll say it's possible Wilt had a vertical in the mid 30's in his prime, but that's about all I could possibly believe.

Quote:
And obviously you believe, like so many here who did NOT see Wilt play...that he was some kind of offensive stumble-bum that merely dunked on helpless, wimpy, 6-6 white centers. Even though there IS limited footage out there which shows Wilt repeatedly hitting jump shots, turn-around jump shots, bank shots, and sweeping hook shots.

I don't believe they were wimpy white 6'6" centers. I already covered the jump shots, I've never denied that he could make them, but at what kind of percentage? Tom Heinsohn says the Celtics were thrilled to see Wilt shoot those shots because he felt like he was letting them off the hook.

As far as sweeping hooks? How many of those have we've seen in highlight mixes? 1 or 2?

Quote:
Look, I have always felt that Shaq, and Kareem, were two of the greatest centers of all-time. I SAW BOTH of them, in their PRIMES. IMHO, neither were as athletically gifted, nor as skilled as Wilt. Granted, Wilt did not play with Shaq's power, although he most certainly could have, nor did he have Russell's will to win. BUT, there is no question in my mind, that a PRIME Wilt, playing in today's NBA, would be the best center in the league. We can speculate all we want on what his numbers might be. BUT, there is no doubt that he would dominate the league today.

I agree that Wilt would be better than Dwight Howard and as a result, the best center today.

I have no problem with you stating your opinions. Personally, I don't even see a case for Wilt being more skilled than Kareem(who was also more skilled than Shaq), but just don't state it as a fact. And don't state it as a fact that Wilt could jump higher than Dwight Howard because you can believe your sources all you want, but they're not confirmed facts.

And personally, I believe Shaq was more skilled than Wilt and had superior ball handling skills, footwork and more moves, but can I state it as a fact? No.

Quote:
You will only believe what you want to believe.

You just described yourself perfectly.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:10 AM   #125
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
Where did you get these back to back stats from?
Here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...962_games.html

In 1961-62 season, Wilt Chamberlain played 13 back-to-back games, 8 back-to-back-to-back games, 2 back-to-back-to-back-to-back games, and one back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back game as following:

Wed, Jan 17, 1962 N St. Louis Hawks W 136 130 27 20 W 1 at Detroit, MI
Thu, Jan 18, 1962 Cincinnati Royals L 133 151 27 21 L 1
Fri, Jan 19, 1962 N Detroit Pistons W 136 125 28 21 W 1 at Boston, MA
Sat, Jan 20, 1962 Detroit Pistons W 123 107 29 21 W 2
Sun, Jan 21, 1962 N Syracuse Nationals W 139 132 30 21 W 3 at Utica, NY
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:11 PM   #126
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandreben
Here:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...962_games.html

In 1961-62 season, Wilt Chamberlain played 13 back-to-back games, 8 back-to-back-to-back games, 2 back-to-back-to-back-to-back games, and one back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back game as following:

Wed, Jan 17, 1962 N St. Louis Hawks W 136 130 27 20 W 1 at Detroit, MI
Thu, Jan 18, 1962 Cincinnati Royals L 133 151 27 21 L 1
Fri, Jan 19, 1962 N Detroit Pistons W 136 125 28 21 W 1 at Boston, MA
Sat, Jan 20, 1962 Detroit Pistons W 123 107 29 21 W 2
Sun, Jan 21, 1962 N Syracuse Nationals W 139 132 30 21 W 3 at Utica, NY


A MINIMUM of 22 B2B games, with TEN back-to-back-to-back, TWO four-in-a-rows, and 1 FIVE consecutive game streak.

One more time...after ALL of that, he missed a TOTAL of 8 minutes and 33 seconds,...in the ENTIRE SEASON.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:16 PM   #127
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmonaut
most of the people on this board are probably not even old enough to even make comments about Hakeem. If all you have seen of Hakeem is youtube videos then you got no right to comment on Hakeem.

I hate ranking players by a number or whatever. I much rather a Tier system, and Hakeem is in that top tier of great centres of all time.

Been saying this for years and all the little kids wont listen.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:25 PM   #128
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAKOTXA
No. He is the most talented big men of all time. And Is top 3 center of all time IMO


I think this proves the point of the thread title.
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:12 AM   #129
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snipes12
kareem>wilt>russel>shaq>hakeem
in career achievement wise


Um, how does Kareem and Wilt have more career achievements than Russel when Russel was in the NBA finals nearly every single year of his career? He also has more rings than any other player in the NBA, as well as 5 MVP awards, and the highest RPG stat in the history of the NBA.

Not to mention he coached in the NBA and won titles as a coach, and fought against racism. Exactly how are Kareem and Wilt more accomplished than that? Bill Russel is by FAR the most accomplished NBA player ever. It's almost like you have no idea who Bill Russel was besides his per game stats.
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:36 AM   #130
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinJackal
Um, how does Kareem and Wilt have more career achievements than Russel when Russel was in the NBA finals nearly every single year of his career? He also has more rings than any other player in the NBA, as well as 5 MVP awards, and the highest RPG stat in the history of the NBA.

Not to mention he coached in the NBA and won titles as a coach, and fought against racism. Exactly how are Kareem and Wilt more accomplished than that? Bill Russel is by FAR the most accomplished NBA player ever. It's almost like you have no idea who Bill Russel was besides his per game stats.

Not sure how the highest RPG stat ...Wilt holds the BULK of rebounding records...some against Russell BTW ( 55 rebounds in a regular season game, and 41 in a post-season game.) If you mean his post-season rebounding edge of 24.9 to 24.5 for Wilt...you are right. HOWEVER, Chamberlain outrebounded Russell in EVERY H2H post-season series. And some were by HUGE margins (in the '67 ECF's, Wilt held a 32 rpg to 23 rpg margin.)

Having said that, though...you do make some very valid points here...most of which are completely ignored by several posters here.

Russell made his TEAM better, and his opposing TEAMs worse. He was the greatest "winner", and no one else will ever duplicate 11 rings in 13 years.

BTW, he could not care less if we believe Olajuwon, Shaq, Kareem, or Wilt as the greatest. His 11 rings are nearly as many as those four have...COMBINED (14.)
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:16 PM   #131
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

great now we have 2 threads in 1st page about
overrated Hakeem Olajuwon
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:26 PM   #132
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zizozain
great now we have 2 threads in 1st page about
overrated Hakeem Olajuwon

Too bad there's still 15 nutting all over Kobe's face.
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:38 PM   #133
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder
Too bad there's still 15 nutting all over Kobe's face.
over Kobe's face over MJ's face over Lebron's face
we offer all kinds in this forum
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:17 AM   #134
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepseskaf
People say "Bill Russell" and "11 rings" as though he was the only one responsible for winning them. Did Russell put the team on his back and carry them to their championships? I don't believe so... While he did provide the defensive anchor for his squads, other players stepped up offensively.

Skill-wise, Russell does not belong in the same category as Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, or even Sabonis. DRob was a much more skilled player.

Not that I'm hating on Russell, who was a great player, but he gets WAY too much credit for those championships. He was an important factor in his team's success but was not the overwhelming reason that they won.

Hunh. Try doing some research and see what Russell's teammates, his coach, and opponents said to a man. Evidently they all gave him too much credit, but you're able to see things clearly.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:20 AM   #135
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Default Re: Hakeem Olajuwon is beginning to become quite overrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
Hunh. Try doing some research and see what Russell's teammates, his coach, and opponents said to a man. Evidently they all gave him too much credit, but you're able to see things clearly.

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