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Old 07-31-2009, 11:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by KBryant24
The hollinger rating says we would lose one more game with Hinrich... WTF? lol

lol name one season where his ratings are true...
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Old 07-31-2009, 12:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by picc84
He's the best defensive PG in the league and possibly the best defensive guard period.

Shannon Brown is going to be the best defensive pg in the league soon.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by picc84
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=lbu8fw

A guy can dream, cant he?

Bulls get 9 million in expiring contracts with which to go after FA's next year. Lakers get a fantastic triangle point guard.

I wish this were possible.

Kirk is one my favorite players since his days in Kansas, I was probably dreaming ahead of you when Chicago took him hoping that Chicago would take Chris Mihm (they didn't have Ben Wallace back then) while Chris did really well here. I felt the Bulls would fill their need of a big man while the Lakers get a very smart, defenive minded pt guard. Bulls instead offered 15 mil to Ben instead, oh well.
Kirks biggest problem is his low FG% at around 42-43%. That is way too low IMO, esp if his defender leaves him to double on Kobe instead. But maybe Lakers shooting guru Craig Hodges can do wonders for him just like he helped Ariza and Brown become better perimeter shooters last year.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by bladefd
Better than Billups? Nah. Billups is the best defensive pg in the league imo with Kidd up there at top 5 as well. hm, I dunno who else I would put up there in my top 5 defensive pg list.

Both Kidd and Billups are strong and crafty pt guards who are very good defenders, but Kirk's main strength on defense his very quick feet and great anticipation skills. I will argue if you put Billups ahead of him but I really feel he is ONE of the best pt guard defenders out there, top 4 atleast.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

Wth? Billups and Kidd havent been good defenders since 2005.

Hinrich in the Boston series guarded Rondo, Allen, and Pierce and sometimes frontcourt players. He may not be the best defensive guard in the NBA but he's the best defensive point guard and its not even close. I'm actually amazed at everyone quoting me in amazement. Have people not been watching Bulls games?
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:13 PM   #21
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by DKLaker
Do they have oxygen on your planet?

Did you see how horribly he played in the playoffs, what a complete choker......the anti D-Fish!!! !

I don't know how much you watched the Bulls play in the playoffs, bec, I felt he did really well, esp defending against Paul Pierce. Sure he missed some layups and FTs, but overall, I thought he played well. Look, we can debate the rest of the summer re: his last playoff stint, but the logic of getting a huge contract was a result of very good play in his first 4 yrs in Chicago. The guy suffered some injuries last year and I am aware of his low FG% and lack of ability penetrating etc, but it is my opinion that he is a very good defender and huge upgrade over Fish (right now that Derek is getting old)ONLY on the defensive aspect that is
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by DKLaker
Do they have oxygen on your planet?

Did you see how horribly he played in the playoffs, what a complete choker......the anti D-Fish!!! !

Compared to Fisher up to the finals he looked like Isiah Thomas. Anti-D-fish.
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Old 07-31-2009, 05:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by picc84
Compared to Fisher up to the finals he looked like Isiah Thomas. Anti-D-fish.

Ok....I'm an honest guy....you're right
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Old 07-31-2009, 05:40 PM   #24
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

why do people constantly underrate Fisher?

I've said this during the playoffs, and I'll say it again, we need Fisher more than people imagine. What Fish brings is great leadership but more importantly a very very smart player. He's a smart player in the way he knows how to draw fouls in a fast break situation, draws the charge by stepping in at the right place, not making stupid fouls, etc. Fish's decision making ability makes him still one of the better PG among the Lakers squad. He may not be fast or quick, but not making bone headed mistakes and not turning the ball over is very crucial when we are talking about winning the championship.

I understand people may think he has a bad shot selection, but I don't, you take what the defense gives you. And people may think he is a horrible defender, in which he is doing the best he can do with that body of his. If we were aiming for a 3peat, Fish is my starting PG for the next 2 years, and because of that we shouldn't worry about anything beyond this next 2 years but to win those championships.

When you are in a win now mode, I believe that's what you gotta focus only, winning NOW. And with that mindset, Fish is my guy.
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Old 07-31-2009, 09:46 PM   #25
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by picc84
Wth? Billups and Kidd havent been good defenders since 2005.

Hinrich in the Boston series guarded Rondo, Allen, and Pierce and sometimes frontcourt players. He may not be the best defensive guard in the NBA but he's the best defensive point guard and its not even close. I'm actually amazed at everyone quoting me in amazement. Have people not been watching Bulls games?


No disrespect intended bro.
Hinrich is a really nice player and would be a great fit with the Lakers.
He is a good defender, though I'd hardly call him great.
Compared to Ariza, for example, Hinrich is not nearly as good (and Ariza did oftentimes guard guards).
Billups is still pretty good, Kidd's best days are long behind him.

Kirk's low FG% would improve dramatically with a team with the offensive weapons we have, so wouldn't concern me. Kirk is big, a good defender, good ballhandler and good outside shooter. I'd love to get him.
His contract however, does lower his value.

Still, I don't believe the Bulls would simply unload him for expiring's. (Though, if they moved Kirk and either traded Thomas or let him walk, they may very well have the cap space to go after 2 big names next year, and the only way that could happen would be to unload Kirk).

Like I said, if Mitch could spin some more Kwame for Gasol magic, I'd be all for it. We are set at every position for the next 3 plus years EXCEPT PG, and Kirk would fill that need very nicely.

Let's assume Phoenix is out of the playoff picture this year, and Sarver continues to have financial problems, and it's apparent Amare wants to walk:

Amare to Chicago
Thomas, Johnson, Farmar, Stache, a Bull's #1 and a Laker#1 to Phx.
Kirk to the Lakers

The Bulls could sign Amare to an extention AND pursue Wade (or Joe Johnson to pair with Rose in the back court)
Suns get a couple of young players with options in Thomas, Farmar and Stache, plus some picks and financial relief with letting Amare go.
Lakers get Kirk
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:02 PM   #26
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by hwliuLAP
why do people constantly underrate Fisher?

I've said this during the playoffs, and I'll say it again, we need Fisher more than people imagine. What Fish brings is great leadership but more importantly a very very smart player. He's a smart player in the way he knows how to draw fouls in a fast break situation, draws the charge by stepping in at the right place, not making stupid fouls, etc. Fish's decision making ability makes him still one of the better PG among the Lakers squad. He may not be fast or quick, but not making bone headed mistakes and not turning the ball over is very crucial when we are talking about winning the championship.

I understand people may think he has a bad shot selection, but I don't, you take what the defense gives you. And people may think he is a horrible defender, in which he is doing the best he can do with that body of his. If we were aiming for a 3peat, Fish is my starting PG for the next 2 years, and because of that we shouldn't worry about anything beyond this next 2 years but to win those championships.

When you are in a win now mode, I believe that's what you gotta focus only, winning NOW. And with that mindset, Fish is my guy.

I still like him as the starter next year, but it is certainly worth to at least look into a pg who can be a better defender than him. Sure he does his best on D, but doing your best is not always enough. I agree he brings more intangibles than just his court production, but it is becoming more and more obvious that his legs cannot keep up with the youthful guards.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

Do people believe that by unloading 3 players and gamble on Hinrich would make us the absolute lock for the next 3 years?

his contract runs another 3 years, he's not easy to trade, he'll be paid MORE than Odom and Artest and I'm not sure I'm quite convinced that this is the financial gamble we want to take on as it doesn't make us THAT much better.


Do people feel that this addition will gives us a strong edge over the likes of Boston or Magic?


I say no
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:39 AM   #28
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwliuLAP
why do people constantly underrate Fisher?

I've said this during the playoffs, and I'll say it again, we need Fisher more than people imagine. What Fish brings is great leadership but more importantly a very very smart player. He's a smart player in the way he knows how to draw fouls in a fast break situation, draws the charge by stepping in at the right place, not making stupid fouls, etc. Fish's decision making ability makes him still one of the better PG among the Lakers squad. He may not be fast or quick, but not making bone headed mistakes and not turning the ball over is very crucial when we are talking about winning the championship.

I understand people may think he has a bad shot selection, but I don't, you take what the defense gives you. And people may think he is a horrible defender, in which he is doing the best he can do with that body of his. If we were aiming for a 3peat, Fish is my starting PG for the next 2 years, and because of that we shouldn't worry about anything beyond this next 2 years but to win those championships.

When you are in a win now mode, I believe that's what you gotta focus only, winning NOW. And with that mindset, Fish is my guy.

Fish's biggest strength in the team is his basketball IQ, not committing too many stupid mistakes which lead to fastbreaks, gambling on defense etc. So many fans think getting rid of Kwame Brown was the turning pt ignoring the huge upgrade they got of getting Fish and losing Smush Parker. Having said, that, Derek's struggles from the field vs Utah, Rockets and Nuggest COUPLED with his inability to slow down quick pt guards like Aaron Brooks and Deron Williams didn't help the lakers cause at all. It's very easy to remember those dramatic 3 pt shots as compared to the games that happened 2-3 weeks before where he shot like 20% from the floor while getting torched by the likes of Brooks
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Old 08-01-2009, 06:14 AM   #29
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Fish's biggest strength in the team is his basketball IQ, not committing too many stupid mistakes which lead to fastbreaks, gambling on defense etc. So many fans think getting rid of Kwame Brown was the turning pt ignoring the huge upgrade they got of getting Fish and losing Smush Parker. Having said, that, Derek's struggles from the field vs Utah, Rockets and Nuggest COUPLED with his inability to slow down quick pt guards like Aaron Brooks and Deron Williams didn't help the lakers cause at all. It's very easy to remember those dramatic 3 pt shots as compared to the games that happened 2-3 weeks before where he shot like 20% from the floor while getting torched by the likes of Brooks


In the regular season, I agree. But I think as a Lakers fan, we should all know how it's like to be in the playoffs. Often times, making very educated basketball decision even late the in 4th is a key aspect to the game. Probably the biggest reason Bynum isn't in the game late in the 4th for that reason.


Fish is just not a regular season guy, he's great in the playoffs. Something that's been shown not just when he was with the Lakers, but with the Jazz as well.


It's pain full to watch him because we are so great on all the other positions. The honest face is that without Fish's leadership, we will not be where we are today. And to believe that taking him out of the starting role would help our team? That's a big gamble, a gamble that a veteran team like that should not make.




Kobe has taken this bunch of "rookies" to a new level, just watch, it'll do wonders. Just watch, Odom and Gasol will be better than ever before, and people will underrate Kobe again until the playoffs.


It's not bad to have the second greatest SG in history to be on your team you know.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: One more trade to solidify the backcourt

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Originally Posted by hwliuLAP
In the regular season, I agree. But I think as a Lakers fan, we should all know how it's like to be in the playoffs. Often times, making very educated basketball decision even late the in 4th is a key aspect to the game. Probably the biggest reason Bynum isn't in the game late in the 4th for that reason.


Fish is just not a regular season guy, he's great in the playoffs. Something that's been shown not just when he was with the Lakers, but with the Jazz as well.


It's pain full to watch him because we are so great on all the other positions. The honest face is that without Fish's leadership, we will not be where we are today. And to believe that taking him out of the starting role would help our team? That's a big gamble, a gamble that a veteran team like that should not make.




Kobe has taken this bunch of "rookies" to a new level, just watch, it'll do wonders. Just watch, Odom and Gasol will be better than ever before, and people will underrate Kobe again until the playoffs.


It's not bad to have the second greatest SG in history to be on your team you know.

I agree with most of what you said except the part on Fish being GREAT IN THE PLAYOFFS. Like I said, he struggled in the field in the first 3 rounds, shooting like 25% while failing to slow down quick pt guards. Phil stuck with him bec, again, he doesn't make stupid mistakes. He is decent IMO and not great.
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