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Old 06-14-2006, 12:31 PM   #31
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... who won that game?

good comeback....:rollingeyes:
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:32 PM   #32
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wtf johnnysic, ty thomas is suited to play the 3? maybe after he starts showing a consistent ANYTHING on the perimeter, i'll believe you.


Funny coming from a Raptors fan, who all seem to insist that Villa can be a career 3.

Given that, consider: Thomas is quicker and twice as athletic as Villa ever thought of being. He has a decent midrange J, which he can improve on. He is quick enough to defend most 3's serviceably well, and can improve that too. And with his length he can help on the boards and in defending the lane.

Yes, he is VERY raw, but with experience his skill set can develop.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:32 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by saKf
Didn't Thomas decline to do competitive workouts? I believe he's doing individual stuff, but not stuff where he goes against other players.
Yup. His stock can only be damaged at this point if, say, Rudy Gay proves he can't guard an SF or Shelden Williams shows he can't deal with power. The top prospects don't expose themselves to scrutiny anymore these days.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:32 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by adamcz
Help me remember... who won that game?

you're right adamcz, the outcome of that game CLEARLY negates any of charlie's vast potential.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:33 PM   #35
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Tyrus Thomas with a jumper is an all star and a special player. People better hope he doesn’t have a J. But watching his form it always looked like he could shoot a little especially off jab step series. With Thomas’ athletism and a jumper he could make some people look stupid for passing on him.

"Other interesting things that I've seen just from skimming the listings: JJ Redick is almost 6'5 in shoes and Ronnie Brewer weights 223. He's going to be in the mold of Joe Johnson only longer. That bodes well for him."

Brewer’s strength quickness and how he moves reminds me of Ron Artest not Joe Johnson. Dude is strong and quick and can play defense. I would love this guy on my squad.

Last edited by Younggrease : 06-14-2006 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:37 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by JohnnySic
Funny coming from a Raptors fan, who all seem to insist that Villa can be a career 3.

Given that, consider: Thomas is quicker and twice as athletic as Villa ever thought of being. He has a decent midrange J, which he can improve on. He is quick enough to defend most 3's serviceably well, and can improve that too. And with his length he can help on the boards and in defending the lane.

Yes, he is VERY raw, but with experience his skill set can develop.

the reason charlie can play the 3 is because he can actually SHOOT from the perimeter. 3's, midrange, drive the lane... he does it all. did you even watch the ncaa tourney sic? cause if you did, you would have seen ty thomas rarely attempting jumpers, and by rare i mean 1 OR 2 a game... and his FG% on those shots? do you even have to guess? He doesn't have a DECENT midrange J, it's not even average, if only because he's only REALLY started to work on it recently. i agree that at his height/size, he could defend sf's decently.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:38 PM   #37
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Raptors fans are going nuts with Villy's value. He scored 13 points on one of the worst teams in the league while playing no defense, and all the sudden he can only be traded for all stars? Sorry Kwaj.
The point of that deal is that it's simply a dumb trade for a young rebuilding team.

Villanueva IS overrated by many people, I completely agree with that BUT he is still a good productive player who will likely improve and is on a rookie contract. Mo Pete has been a mainstay for the Raptors, likely won't be hard to re-sign and is the one good defensive player they have.

Magloire and Mo Williams will both be free agents after next year with both looking at significant pay raises (even though Magloire is overrated as well and doesn't deserve one). These aren't exactly 2 players you want to invest a lot of money in long term at the moment. Mo Williams could prove people wrong if given a consistent long-term starting job but that hasn't happened yet.

The talent is pretty much equal on both sides of the deal but I'll take the cheaper 2 with more potential than going for positional need and getting either 1 year rentals or bad long term deals for unproven (Williams) and undeserved (Magloire) players.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:39 PM   #38
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barring athleticism, everything johnny sic said begain with the word "could".
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:51 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
The point of that deal is that it's simply a dumb trade for a young rebuilding team.
You mean "building," not "re-building."
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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Magloire and Mo Williams will both be free agents after next year with both looking at significant pay raises (even though Magloire is overrated as well and doesn't deserve one).
Do we really need to go over Magloire's value again? I thought I put an end to that in the other thread. He will get paid what he's worth.
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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
The talent is pretty much equal on both sides of the deal but I'll take the cheaper 2 with more potential than going for positional need and getting either 1 year rentals or bad long term deals for unproven (Williams) and undeserved (Magloire) players.
You're losing it Qwyj! Williams is a proven NBA player. He was a fulltime starter in 2004-05, and he averaged 10 and 6, while leading the Bucks to 30 wins. This likely would have been 35 wins, but the Bucks tanked at the trade deadline. Either way, it was a better team than the Raptors have had since 2001-02. This year Mo came off the bench for 12 and 4, and was a top sixth man of the year candidate until he got injured. How can you put unproven in front of his name without putting a more exaggerated term in front of Charlie's name? And how does he have less potential? He's only two years older, and he plays point guard!
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:56 PM   #40
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I think the list shows that Rodney Carney will probably more of a 2 guard instead of a small forward. He measured out at 6'5.75 so he is probably a 6'6 shooting gaurd
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:01 PM   #41
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Hey, like I said... I'm still not sure about Mo Williams. He has done well but one season as starting PG isn't enough to give up on the likely more economical players the Raptors would give up. The fact that neither Magloire nor Williams would be guaranteed to stay with the Raptors past next year is a big issue here. The Raptors giving up these 2 players for guys who will likely bolt after one year unless grossly overpaid isn't a favourable scenario for a young team.

I find all the home-town discount and likely wanting to stay in TO speculation on the part of some fans about Magloire to be bogus too.

It's just too big of a risk and IMO, these aren't 2 guys that a team like the Raptors should be overpaying for.
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:09 PM   #42
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barring athleticism, everything johnny sic said begain with the word "could".
Pretty much everyone taken in this draft could be a surprise or could become a bust.
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:12 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BigTicket
Might just be me but the NBA and its fans seem overly obsessed with meassurements. Especially when you consider how many stars don't fit the stereotypes.

Shaq is too fat
KG is too skinny
AI is too short
Big Ben is too short
Brand is too short

etc...

I don't think anyone was calling Shaq too fat. He only weighed 300 lbs back then. The rest is right. The Magic tried to get Big Ben to play guard.

I was expecting McNamara to be a little bit taller. I knew he was short, but he was listed at 6'2 or even as tall as 6'3. Listed heights are pretty meaningless, though.
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:16 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Hey, like I said... I'm still not sure about Mo Williams. He has done well but one season as starting PG isn't enough to give up on the likely more economical players the Raptors would give up. The fact that neither Magloire nor Williams would be guaranteed to stay with the Raptors past next year is a big issue here. The Raptors giving up these 2 players for guys who will likely bolt after one year unless grossly overpaid (???) isn't a favourable scenario for a young team.

I find all the home-town discount and likely wanting to stay in TO speculation on the part of some fans about Magloire to be bogus too. (me too)

It's just too big of a risk and IMO, these aren't 2 guys that a team like the Raptors should be overpaying for.
What gaurentee do you have that Mo Peterson will stay after this year? He's got the exact same status that the other guys have. I really don't understand why you would have to overpay to keep them though. They just need to get paid what they're worth. Magloire will be traded with his agent involved in the discussions so that his contract can be extended by the November deadline. He won't give he Raptors a steep hometown discount, but I'm sure he would accept market value to stay with them.
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:31 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by adamcz
What gaurentee do you have that Mo Peterson will stay after this year? He's got the exact same status that the other guys have. I really don't understand why you would have to overpay to keep them though. They just need to get paid what they're worth. Magloire will be traded with his agent involved in the discussions so that his contract can be extended by the November deadline. He won't give he Raptors a steep hometown discount, but I'm sure he would accept market value to stay with them.

someone please define what "market value" is for a guy who averages 9 and 9 in his 7th year in the league? he's getting paid 8.3 million per right now... does he deserve a raise? no. the guy is 28 years old, isn't getting any better, and will be expecting a raise. so what will he want, 4-5 years starting at 9-10 mill? forget it. i'm not saying magloire isn't a decent player, but if you look around the league at teams who paid primo $$$ for centers that aren't worth it, you'll find that their team isn't doing well either. it's easy enough to find some stiff who can have half the impact of a magloire at a fraction of the cost. the fact remains, im not investing 1/5th of my payroll into a player who doesn't deserve it now, and will only decline in the future.
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