Better passer: Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant

[OldSchoolBBall]

Originally Posted by Fatal9

Can we get the same list for players who averaged 5+ apg? Those shooters aren't expected to create off the dribble so how are they going to turn the ball over? Other than Jordan are there other players who are all-time caliber that are around this high on the list? I never checked out these stats before, always knew MJ's assist/turnover was incredible but if he is that far ahead of everyone else...that's nuts.

It's not just the assists, it's the scoring volume and defensive attention he saw as well. Here are the next 5 guys on the list who can be considered high volume scorers/playmakers and where they rank:

25. Nique (great scoring volume, but not much of a passer/playmaker)
33. Vince Carter (good scoring and playmaking volume)
37. Tmac (good scoring and great playmaking volume)
85. Kobe (great scoring and good/great playmaking volume)
98. Lebron (great scoring and playmaking volume)

And again, Jordan was at like #9-12 on whatever TO metric they used before they converted to TO%. I remember being stunned when I saw it. Low TO's also helped keep MJ's PER very high. Jordan just didn't make that many mistakes on the court.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that the list doesn't have a large range, so it's not like #85 or even 100 is "bad" per se. The difference between #1 and #75 on the list is like 3 TO%. Still, it's very impressive.

[NBASTATMAN]

Originally Posted by Lebron23

LeBron is a better passer than Drexler, Kobe, and Jordan.

Yes quite a bit better than any of those three greats.. I would say both kobe and mj were very good passers... The diff between kobe and mj is that mj had a better assist to turnover ratio than kobe.. Kobe is actually not that good in that department.. One of the worse actually when you look at top guards...

[OldSchoolBBall]

Lebron is not "quite a bit better" passer than Jordan. He may have slightly better natural vision (especially from the perimeter; but how much of that is natural and how much is a function of his taller size is up for debate), but they each have advantages on the other in terms of passing imo. MJ was probably the most brilliant interior passer I've seen off penetrations and post ups, and he was also more technically sound than Lebron as well as a better outlet passer in traffic (i.e., throwing a ball off a rebound like 35-55 feet to a guy in traffic right on the money).

[gotbacon23]

Originally Posted by Fatal9

Can we get the same list for players who averaged 5+ apg? Those shooters aren't expected to create off the dribble so how are they going to turn the ball over? Other than Jordan are there other players who are all-time caliber that are around this high on the list? I never checked out these stats before, always knew MJ's assist/turnover was incredible but if he is that far ahead of everyone else...that's nuts.

Rank (overall rank) Player TOV% -- APG
1 (17) Michael Jordan 9.34 -- 5.3
2 (92) LeBron James 11.64 -- 5.9
3 (126) Allen Iverson 12.15 -- 6.2
4 (136) Fat Lever 12.27 -- 6.2
5 (173) Larry Bird 12.73 -- 6.3
6 (178) Gary Payton 12.79 -- 6.7
7 (180) Clyde Drexler 12.79 -- 5.6
8 (183) Terrell Brandon 12.86 -- 6.1
9 (188) Nick Van Exel 12.89 -- 6.6
10 (212) Chauncey Billups 13.4 -- 5.6
11 (221) Michael Adams 13.52 -- 6.4
12 (222) Mike Bibby 13.52 -- 6.1
13 (224) Derek Harper 13.55 -- 5.5
14 (235) Pooh Richardson 13.77 -- 6.5
15 (243) Gilbert Arenas 13.98 -- 5.5
16 (246) Tony Parker 14.06 -- 5.6
17 (247) Kenny Anderson 14.12 -- 6.1
18 (249) Stephon Marbury 14.16 -- 7.6

sorry i could only get the top 18. these are the only 18 players in the top 250 of all time in lowest to% to average 5+ apg for their careers.

i don't think its any coincidence that 15 out of the 18 players on this list made at least 1 all-star game in their careers (pooh richardson, derek harper, and mike bibby being the exceptions), and out of the top 7, 6 will be in the hall of fame.

[Cyclone112]

Originally Posted by gotbacon23

Rank Player TOV% -- APG
1 Michael Jordan 9.34 -- 5.3
2 LeBron James 11.64 -- 5.9
3 Allen Iverson 12.15 -- 6.2
4 Fat Lever 12.27 -- 6.2
5 Larry Bird 12.73 -- 6.3
6 Gary Payton 12.79 -- 6.7
7 Clyde Drexler 12.79 -- 5.6
8 Terrell Brandon 12.86 -- 6.1
9 Nick Van Exel 12.89 -- 6.6
10 Chauncey Billups 13.4 -- 5.6
11 Michael Adams 13.52 -- 6.4
12 Mike Bibby 13.52 -- 6.1
13 Derek Harper 13.55 -- 5.5
14 Pooh Richardson 13.77 -- 6.5
15 Gilbert Arenas 13.98 -- 5.5
16 Tony Parker 14.06 -- 5.6
17 Kenny Anderson 14.12 -- 6.1
18 Stephon Marbury 14.16 -- 7.6

sorry i could only get the top 18. these are the only 18 players in the top 250 of all time in lowest to% to average 5+ apg for their careers.

i don't think its any coincidence that 15 out of the 18 players on this list made at least 1 all-star game in their careers (pooh richardson, derek harper, and mike bibby being the exceptions), and out of the top 7, 6 will be in the hall of fame.

Nice, thanks for the list. It's crazy to see MJ being 2 whole points higher than second place. It's also crazy to see AI number 3 on that list as well.

[nnn123]

Originally Posted by gotbacon23

Rank Player TOV% -- APG
1 Michael Jordan 9.34 -- 5.3
2 LeBron James 11.64 -- 5.9
3 Allen Iverson 12.15 -- 6.2
4 Fat Lever 12.27 -- 6.2
5 Larry Bird 12.73 -- 6.3
6 Gary Payton 12.79 -- 6.7
7 Clyde Drexler 12.79 -- 5.6
8 Terrell Brandon 12.86 -- 6.1
9 Nick Van Exel 12.89 -- 6.6
10 Chauncey Billups 13.4 -- 5.6
11 Michael Adams 13.52 -- 6.4
12 Mike Bibby 13.52 -- 6.1
13 Derek Harper 13.55 -- 5.5
14 Pooh Richardson 13.77 -- 6.5
15 Gilbert Arenas 13.98 -- 5.5
16 Tony Parker 14.06 -- 5.6
17 Kenny Anderson 14.12 -- 6.1
18 Stephon Marbury 14.16 -- 7.6

sorry i could only get the top 18. these are the only 18 players in the top 250 of all time in lowest to% to average 5+ apg for their careers.

i don't think its any coincidence that 15 out of the 18 players on this list made at least 1 all-star game in their careers (pooh richardson, derek harper, and mike bibby being the exceptions), and out of the top 7, 6 will be in the hall of fame.

To be fair, though, sometimes the refs swallowed the whistle when it came to Jordan (mostly during the 2nd 3Peat)...but that's still extremely impressive.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Originally Posted by gotbacon23

Rank Player TOV% -- APG
1 Michael Jordan 9.34 -- 5.3
2 LeBron James 11.64 -- 5.9
3 Allen Iverson 12.15 -- 6.2
4 Fat Lever 12.27 -- 6.2
5 Larry Bird 12.73 -- 6.3
6 Gary Payton 12.79 -- 6.7
7 Clyde Drexler 12.79 -- 5.6
8 Terrell Brandon 12.86 -- 6.1
9 Nick Van Exel 12.89 -- 6.6
10 Chauncey Billups 13.4 -- 5.6
11 Michael Adams 13.52 -- 6.4
12 Mike Bibby 13.52 -- 6.1
13 Derek Harper 13.55 -- 5.5
14 Pooh Richardson 13.77 -- 6.5
15 Gilbert Arenas 13.98 -- 5.5
16 Tony Parker 14.06 -- 5.6
17 Kenny Anderson 14.12 -- 6.1
18 Stephon Marbury 14.16 -- 7.6

sorry i could only get the top 18. these are the only 18 players in the top 250 of all time in lowest to% to average 5+ apg for their careers.

i don't think its any coincidence that 15 out of the 18 players on this list made at least 1 all-star game in their careers (pooh richardson, derek harper, and mike bibby being the exceptions), and out of the top 7, 6 will be in the hall of fame.

Can you include their rank on the overall TO% chart next to it as well for each player?

[gotbacon23]

Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall

Can you include their rank on the overall TO% chart next to it as well for each player?

updated my post it to include that now

[OldSchoolBBall]

Originally Posted by gotbacon23

updated my post it to include that now

Thanks a lot.

[momo]

[AllenIverson3]

Originally Posted by glidedrxlr22

Jordan and Kobe each had 3 seasons of 6assists or more /game.

Kobe only had 1 season of 6 assists..