Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
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Originally Posted by One Love
Bonds did steroids. It doesn't count.
So we do we know 100% for sure that Griffey was clean? No. We also don't know if guys like George Brett, Yount, Schmidt etc. etc. were all clean either. I'm not going to bother separating the known cheaters from everyone else because who knows what other players were using and just weren't caught? That's why I say guys like Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro should all go into the HOF. Everyone knows they weren't legit but so what? Their numbers are worthy and who knows how many "cheaters" are already in the HOF.
Oh and Bonds > Griffey.
Griffey was the better fielder and played at a more premium position but Bonds was a good fielder in LF as well and the difference in offensive #'s is just too great to over look.
Career:
Bonds: .298/.444/.607, OPS+ of 182 (3rd all-time after Ruth and Williams)
Griffey: .286/.371/.542, OPS+ of 137
Bonds was the more productive player and he also has the edge in awards if you like looking at that.
Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
I know that Griffey could possibly be on the list of Steroid users, but if he isn't then his stats prove that he was the better player. If he didn't have so many injuries he could have been GOAT.
Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
Bonds. And as they say, it's not even close. Bonds to me is the GOAT. If teams didn't conspire against him, he would've lengthen his homer record by a good margin to possibly a point where no-one could catch him.
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nah, that's flawed. innocent 'til proven guilty. & bonds is guilty as fukc.
Bonds isn't guilty either, so your theory is flawed as well. Bonds is fighting it, ain't he? Now if he admitted to it, different story, but he didn't...
Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
Bonds is the only one in the 500/500 club, 500+ HR's 500+ SB's
He used to steal bases whenever he wanted, in the past 10 years he couldn't steal a base worth ShIt. If you look at his numbers, you will find out he started using steroids in 99'-00' maybe even earlier.
Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
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Originally Posted by brwnman
Bonds isn't guilty either, so your theory is flawed as well. Bonds is fighting it, ain't he? Now if he admitted to it, different story, but he didn't...
this is a great read, btw. the book acknowledges how great bonds was w/out steroids. dude is just really, really insecure & couldn't stand the attention paid to mcguire & sosa.
NEW YORK (SI.com) -- Beginning in 1998 with injections in his buttocks of Winstrol, a powerful steroid, Barry Bonds took a wide array of performance-enhancing drugs over at least five seasons in a massive doping regimen that grew more sophisticated as the years went on, according to Game of Shadows, a book written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters at the forefront of reporting on the BALCO steroid distribution scandal.
The authors, Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, describe in sometimes day-to-day, drug-by-drug detail how often and how deeply Bonds engaged in the persistent doping. For instance, the authors write that by 2001, when Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single-season home-run record (70) by belting 73, Bonds was using two designer steroids referred to as the Cream and the Clear, as well as insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate (a fast-acting steroid known as Mexican beans) and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.
BALCO tracked Bonds' usage with doping calendars and folders -- detailing drugs, quantities, intervals and Bonds' testosterone levels -- that wound up in the hands of federal agents upon their Sept. 3, 2003 raid of the Burlingame, Calif., business.
Depending on the substance, Bonds used the drugs in virtually every conceivable form: injecting himself with a syringe or being injected by his trainer, Greg Anderson, swallowing pills, placing drops of liquid under his tongue, and, in the case of BALCO's notorious testosterone-based cream, applying it topically.
Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
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nah, that's flawed. innocent 'til proven guilty. & bonds is guilty as fukc.
Sure that may apply to Griffey's late career but what about all the players from the 60's, 70's and 80's? There is no way to prove them guilty even if you wanted to try.
Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
Babe Ruth was known to have corked bats back in the day. I think it was Hank Aaron who admitted to using amphetamine in his autobiography. I mean, you just CAN'T say who was clean and who wasn't. But seriously, even with steroids, HGH, etc. Bonds had .609 OBP. I don't think anyone will ever come close to that.
Also, a lot of people look at Bonds and say, well he only had speed and it's after the steroids where he started hitting for power, etc. That's just plain crap. Even before '98 he had 374 HRs and 417 SBs. He was well on his way to being a 500 HR and 500 SB player. He was going to be a HOF back then as well (that's why he shouldn't be ousted when it comes to the Hall). He had 3 MVPs by then and 7 GGs...
Re: Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Sure that may apply to Griffey's late career but what about all the players from the 60's, 70's and 80's? There is no way to prove them guilty even if you wanted to try.
ok. i agree w/that. plenty of players have cheated from decades past.
but this is a comparison between a player who was caught vs. a player who was not. that's the basis for my choice.
Better Career - Ken Griffey Jr or Barry Bonds?
