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Old 08-14-2009, 10:36 AM   #1
RainierBeachPoet
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Default Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

i just finished reading spike lee's, the best seat in the house. on page 190, there is a great quote from jackson regarding pippen choosing to sit out during the last play in the game five of the playoff game against the knicks in 1994. pippen was angry because the final play was called for kukuc (who then went on to make the winning shot).

what do you think of this quote from jackson?

"As great a player as (Scottie) is, there is always going to be the stigma that he sat out the last second and a half of a ball game. But you know, I had to make a choice.

Scottie was either going to facilitate the play, and if he didn't want to do it, we'd have to go without him...
He was a leader, and he let his team down because of his personal interest in the ball game"


i watched that game and i must admit that it has brought down my overall opinion of pippen. so for me, the stigma exists

who else watched this drama unfold at the time? does the pippen stigma exist for you?
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

A true leader does whatever is best for the team and Pippen chose not to do that in that particular situation, so yeah, my opinion of his is somewhat lessoned, but I think during the course of that year, he led that team to a degree of unexpected success, so maybe the 2 cancel each other out?

I could only have IMAGINED the reaction if the Bulls had gone on to lose that game.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainierBeachPoet
i just finished reading spike lee's, the best seat in the house. on page 190, there is a great quote from jackson regarding pippen choosing to sit out during the last play in the game five of the playoff game against the knicks in 1994. pippen was angry because the final play was called for kukuc (who then went on to make the winning shot).

what do you think of this quote from jackson?

"As great a player as (Scottie) is, there is always going to be the stigma that he sat out the last second and a half of a ball game. But you know, I had to make a choice.

Scottie was either going to facilitate the play, and if he didn't want to do it, we'd have to go without him...
He was a leader, and he let his team down because of his personal interest in the ball game"


i watched that game and i must admit that it has brought down my overall opinion of pippen. so for me, the stigma exists

who else watched this drama unfold at the time? does the pippen stigma exist for you?

It doesn't for me, although I can understand both sides. Pippen was a great, great player but his greatness was found in the gray areas of the game. His game relied on intelligence and court awareness instead of sheer talent. He impacted the game in ways that didn't always show up in the stat sheet.

But he played with Michael Jordan (who, if not redefined the expectations of superstar player, certainly advanced it) and in an era full of "#1" guys that made careers out of making big shots and big plays. I think Pippen wanted to be seen as a top tier guy and he felt like he needed to prove himself at the end of games to get the recognition of being a true #1.

At the same time, Phil Jackson knew his game and knew what the team needed. Phil felt like Toni Kukoc would be a better end-game player because of his shot-making ability. In no way was Kukoc a better player than Pippen, but he was a better shot creator than Pip.

I think PJ made the right decision to go with Kukoc on an intellectual level (it just made sense), but on an emotional level I wanted Pippen to have his chance on such a big stage. Even if he didn't make the shot, I think he deserved it.

So...I'm not disappointed in Pippen for being angry about it. I still think that PJ should have decided to go with Pippen once he made it clear that he wanted the last shot. I know it was a playoff game with serious implications (down 2-0) but PJ should have gone the extra step to show support to Pippen in this way. In the bigger picture, it wasn't worth the hit on Pippen's reputation. Pippen meant too much to that team for Jackson to allow that situation to unfold knowing his guy was hurting. Give the ball to Pippen and if you lose, you lose. He deserved that. He helped the franchise win 3 titles. Give him the ball.

I remember watching a documentary on the Pistons when they cut to the huddle during a late game situation. Isiah said, "I'm taking the last shot. I may hit it or miss it but I'm not giving them any time on the clock". Pippen should have had this opportunity.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

I think Pippen put himself over the team because he felt that was HIS moment. He had his best season ever, he was the team leader and knowing that PJax didn't draw the play for him, it must've hurt him inside. At that point, Pip wanted to be the man and show us what he was capable of. That was the year where he defined himself, drew more attention and realized the load of being the man. He was a bit immature at that point but I can't hold that incident against him. I obviously can't tell it the way Pippen would but in my view, Pippen felt that was the perfect situation to prove himself. Bulls were down 2-0 in the series. Game was tied at 100 with around 2 seconds left on the shot clock and if Pippen makes the shot, he'd have the media all over him. Anyhow, Pippen still played great in that series save for maybe 1 or 2 games. Impacted the game in other ways when his shot wasn't falling. I think Pippen matured a lot going into the second 3 peat and realized his abilities, limitations and became a smarter and more intelligent player. These incidents helped him become a more "team first" type of guy later on in his career.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

To me Pippen will always be a step down from the elite level players on the wing like Jordan, Hondo, Bird, West, Kobe, Doc and the like because he was not able to understand what his team needed from him as a #1 perimeter option. Not just in the 18 months that Jordan was suspended from the NBA but after '98 when he went to Houston for what should have been the modern version of the '72 Lakers and messed things up there too by not understanding his role.

Only when he had to obviously defer to the greatest player of all-time did Pippen maximize his talent and become in essence the greatest role player in the history of sports. I certainly don't mean that as a slight, he was a top five player in the league, but much the way it was for Kobe with Shaq it was for Pippen with MJ: top five in the league but always #2 within the team.

Phil called the play for Pippen to pass because unlike Michael (who had won the title by passing to John Paxson a year earlier) Scottie didn't know that's what the team needed at that point.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Realist
So...I'm not disappointed in Pippen for being angry about it. I still think that PJ should have decided to go with Pippen once he made it clear that he wanted the last shot. I know it was a playoff game with serious implications (down 2-0) but PJ should have gone the extra step to show support to Pippen in this way. In the bigger picture, it wasn't worth the hit on Pippen's reputation. Pippen meant too much to that team for Jackson to allow that situation to unfold knowing his guy was hurting. Give the ball to Pippen and if you lose, you lose. He deserved that. He helped the franchise win 3 titles. Give him the ball.

Does it really matter if he deserved or not? If Phil thought going with Kukoc was the right play, then there really was nothing wrong with what Phil did. It shouldn't matter if Pippen had paid his dues, won 3 titles, led them all year, etc. For whatever reason, Phil had more confidence in letting Kukoc take the shot, so I don't see why he should've went a different route just to show support to Pippen.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:30 AM   #7
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

i feel pip was in a damed if you do damed if you dont situation. if he goes in and runs the play, pip continues to be disrespected. if he breaks the play , he continues to dissed. hes always gonna be known for that 1 game. especially by people like the postes above me that only see him as a very good role player. for all 3 championships, the bulls were basically regarded as jordan and everybody else by everone including me. pip knew what his skills were and yet for 3 years defered for the greater good of the team. it was his time to shine and yet he has to defer to a rookie? it sickens me to read the disrespect all you guys show pip.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
Does it really matter if he deserved or not? If Phil thought going with Kukoc was the right play, then there really was nothing wrong with what Phil did. It shouldn't matter if Pippen had paid his dues, won 3 titles, led them all year, etc. For whatever reason, Phil had more confidence in letting Kukoc take the shot, so I don't see why he should've went a different route just to show support to Pippen.
but be honest guy, how many greats do you think would be willing to go out there as a decoy? which is what jackson wanted pip to be. i feel that not only does the star pout, but also demands a trade after the season.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Great players ALWAYS defer to the greater good of the team. And I didn't call Pippen "just a role player", I called him the greatest role player in the history of sports. And he is a top 10 SF of all-time maybe top 5. His skills could have made him even better but his mind was not that of a leader.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

phil was a stupid assho!e for not drawing up the play for pip in the first place.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.O.A.T
Great players ALWAYS defer to the greater good of the team. And I didn't call Pippen "just a role player", I called him the greatest role player in the history of sports. And he is a top 10 SF of all-time maybe top 5. His skills could have made him even better but his mind was not that of a leader.
lol what sports do you watch???? thats a stone lie. if i had a penny for every time a great pouted cuz something didnt go his way, requested a trade, or broke a teams back during a contract negotiation then complain cuz theyre not on a contender, id own a professional sports franchise.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:44 AM   #12
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

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Originally Posted by DCL
phil was a stupid assho!e for not drawing up the play for pip in the first place.
thank you.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:47 AM   #13
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Jackson always wanted Michael to look better hence why this situation occurred in the first place. Pippen was definitely capable of taking and making the last shot, but if he made it people would question Jordan's greatness and start looking at Pippen as maybe that player who made Jordan better, of course Phil couldn't hurt Michael's legacy like that. Pippen was the true leader and the captain of the Bulls. Michael was just the best weapon.
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Realist
Pippen should have had this opportunity.

WRONG.

Its the coaches decision and I think Phil had proven by that point he knew what he was doing.

In one brief moment Pipp showed his true colors and lost a ton of respect for it. Any guy that thinks of himself before the team is a cancer.
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen letting his team down in 1994

Okay I should have said on the court
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