This is like comparing Carmelo Anthony to Josh Smith.
Wilkins and its not close. Worthy may well be the most overrated player in NBA history; more so than even Penny Hardaway. As another noted, he was lucky he was in the spot he was in.
Worthy wasn't even as good as contemporaries who played the same position like Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguire, never mind 'Nique. If he played for a middle-of-the-road team Worthy would be largely forgotten.
Reality is, Worth stepped up when it mattered the most.....the playoffs.... the guys you mentioned never did that and that's why in my opinion Worthy was the better player than Dominique. I don't think you realized how much he stifled his game to win championships with the Showtime Lakers, he was far more capable of doing what he did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySic
Could "Big Game" James have taken over games like 'Nique, Bird, Dr J, and Bernard King did, had he been the top guy on a team and the focal point of an opposing defense? Its all speculation, but I say: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/negative
He pretty much was the #1 scoring option when Kareem left. Many times in the Clutch situations as well, so not only does James have the better legacy but he was also the better closer and that honestly matters a lot.
give wilkins the greatest PG of all time and they would have dominated the league in freakish fashion (moreso than showtime LA imho).
what we do know is that wilkins did the most with what he was given and absolutely stepped it up in the postseason. the guy is 11th all time in playoff PPG. 11th
bottom line is if your team wasn't stacked in the 80's you didn't compete (edit: contend - nique's hawks competed). (kinda like now)
There's also the longevity thing.. what 6'7" forward puts up 18/6 at 37? or 29/7 at 34? worthy retired at 32 after avg 10 ppg
and i watched both players.
Last edited by SayTownRy : 09-10-2009 at 09:54 AM.
I don't think you realized how much he stifled his game to win championships with the Showtime Lakers, he was far more capable of doing what he did.
I watched enough of Worthy back in the 80's and I know he was good but he gets a LOT of mileage from having played with Kareem, Magic, and the rest of that bunch.
Coincidentally enough, a current comparison to Worthy is another Laker, Pau Gasol. Who cared about Gasol when he was in Memphis? He was just another good player. He goes to LA, benefits from having Kobe and company, and suddenly he's a *great* player...
give wilkins the greatest PG of all time and they would have dominated the league in freakish fashion (moreso than showtime LA imho).
what we do know is that wilkins did the most with what he was given and absolutely stepped it up in the postseason. the guy is 11th all time in playoff PPG. 11th
Read this.....it was the 1st post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZiggyZag
Now, I'm sure somebody will say....Oh well if Nique played with Magic, he would average 50 points a game!!!, Not true at all. One reason why the Lakers stuck with James was because he was an efficient player and could move without the ball, Dominique wasn't like that at all and it seemed that was the reason why the Lakers stuck with James from what I've heard and read. Worthy was an efficient player in the post too and always shot around 50%. James Worthy was pretty much the Jerry Rice of the Showtime Lakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySic
I watched enough of Worthy back in the 80's and I know he was good but he gets a LOT of mileage from having played with Kareem, Magic, and the rest of that bunch.
Coincidentally enough, a current comparison to Worthy is another Laker, Pau Gasol. Who cared about Gasol when he was in Memphis? He was just another good player. He goes to LA, benefits from having Kobe and company, and suddenly he's a *great* player...
Boom Boom Pau was an All-Star in 06' and led the Grizzlies to the playoffs many times, only to get swept in all of them. Reality was, Pau Gasol was just playing on a small market team and if you play on a small market team, you get small media attention. As I said, Worthy was the Jerry Rice of the Showtime Lakers and Magic was Steve Young or Joe Montana.
so efficiency and moving without the ball are two reasons why Nique couldn't excel in a magic lead offense?
hard for me to say Nique couldn't move without the ball. can't quantify that with a number. he did dominate the ball in Atlanta because he had to. without a 30 ppg scorer they weren't going to make the playoffs.
i can say in a different situation (his spur days) he shared the load with robinson, elliott, maxwell, johnson, and del negro all putting up good scoring numbers around him.
but efficiency, on the other hand, has been quantified to some extend with PER.
dominique gave bird hell all by himself if you add him to showtime i doubt the celtics would have ever won a championship in the 80's magic might have as many rings as bill russell it's really no comparison.Nique was much better.
dominique gave bird hell all by himself if you add him to showtime i doubt the celtics would have ever won a championship in the 80's magic might have as many rings as bill russell it's really no comparison.Nique was much better.
The Celtics were simply better. Not saying Dominique was a choker, because he certainly wasn't. But he also took tons of shots a la Iverson, and did not step up like Worthy did. Worthy was also much more efficient.
While we are at it, why don't we replace Nique with Bird and see how many championships he would get. I mean Bird was on a stacked team, He was just lucky to be put in that situation.... He obviously played no role. It's obvious Nique would've took out Magic Johnson everytime.
For me, I'll roll with Big Game James, almost entirely for the same reason why I rolled with Pierce over Dominique, Reliable clutch performer in the playoffs, never really had the chance to lead as a team player, but stifled a lot of his game, to adapt to the team concept for the Showtime Lakers, Funny thing is the Lakers actually had a chance to get Dominique over Worthy, but they stuck with Worthy and it looks like they made the good choice.
Now, I'm sure somebody will say....Oh well if Nique played with Magic, he would average 50 points a game!!!, Not true at all. One reason why the Lakers stuck with James was because he was an efficient player and could move without the ball, Dominique wasn't like that at all and it seemed that was the reason why the Lakers stuck with James from what I've heard and read. Worthy was an efficient player in the post too and always shot around 50%. James Worthy was pretty much the Jerry Rice of the Showtime Lakers.
they took Worthy because he was the safer choice. he was a stud at UNC and really a no brainer. There was some risk to picking Wilkins.
but just imagine Nique on the receiving end of Showtime, imagine the 'Coop-a-loop' run with Dominique.
I love Worthy, but it is a shame we never got to see Nique on those teams.
While we are at it, why don't we replace Nique with Bird and see how many championships he would get. I mean Bird was on a stacked team, He was just lucky to be put in that situation.... He obviously played no role. It's obvious Nique would've took out Magic Johnson everytime.
You're right, because Worthy's role was really comparable to Bird's. Bird had some of the most legendary performances ever, put up some of the greatest numbers ever, won 3 straight MVP's and had an argument for the MVP award just about every season until his injury.
If you can't see the difference between saying 'Nique could replace Bird and 'Nique could replace Worthy then I don't even see why I'm arguing with you.
This is like comparing Carmelo Anthony to Josh Smith.
Wilkins and its not close. Worthy may well be the most overrated player in NBA history; more so than even Penny Hardaway. As another noted, he was lucky he was in the spot he was in. Worthy wasn't even as good as contemporaries who played the same position like Adrian Dantley and Mark Aguire, never mind 'Nique. If he played for a middle-of-the-road team Worthy would be largely forgotten.
This is the most ridiculous post I've read this year on ISH (and that's saying something).
This thread shows just how many of you never watched either, as a lot of you are spewing complete b.s..
I watched Worthy since his Junior year at Carolina and his whole pro career as Big Game James. There is a reason Magic Johnson stated and I quote "James Worthy was one of the top 10 -- top five -- players in playoff history..." And that's from Magic. Finals MVP, Final Four MVP, #1 Overall Pick, James Worthy is one of the 2 or 3 most underrated players on ISH (along with Oscar). Jordan also has stated in a radio interview that he may take Worthy over Kobe. Once again this is from players who KNOW the quality of his game.
This may sound like blasphemy now, but in '87 in the Finals the word was beginning that many considered Wothy a Top 5 player in the game at the time which lasted for the late '80's. Once again, if you weren't there you would have no idea. Here's Pat Riley: "I don't think there has been or will be a better small forward than James, and I don't think people appreciated that," said his coach, Pat Riley, to the Los Angeles Daily News upon Worthy's retirement. "He was always such a quiet guy. But when he was in his prime, I can guarantee you, there wasn't anybody who could touch him."
If you think a malcontent like Mark Aguirre was better than Worthy, you have ZERO idea about the game of basketball. Period.
Worthy had sick skills, athleticism, drive, size, IQ. He was the total package.
I have no problem with anyone saying 'Nique was a little better as he was an AMAZING offensive player. But I'll take Worthy all day if I'm starting a team.
You're right, because Worthy's role was really comparable to Bird's. Bird had some of the most legendary performances ever, put up some of the greatest numbers ever, won 3 straight MVP's and had an argument for the MVP award just about every season until his injury.
If you can't see the difference between saying 'Nique could replace Bird and 'Nique could replace Worthy then I don't even see why I'm arguing with you.
You act as if any retard could fill in Worthy's shoes and their would be a championship regardless, which is totally false. Totally false, There are certain players out there who were 1st options their entire career and wouldn't be able to play in a 2nd or 3rd option role and Dominique is probably one of them. Kobe is one of them when he was forced to play a 2nd option role in the 3-peat and he couldn't handle it because he felt disrespected, Sure 3 championships, but there could have been so much more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIZARRO
This is the most ridiculous post I've read this year on ISH (and that's saying something).
This thread shows just how many of you never watched either, as a lot of you are spewing complete b.s..
I watched Worthy since his Junior year at Carolina and his whole pro career as Big Game James. There is a reason Magic Johnson stated and I quote "James Worthy was one of the top 10 -- top five -- players in playoff history..." And that's from Magic. Finals MVP, Final Four MVP, #1 Overall Pick, James Worthy is one of the 2 or 3 most underrated players on ISH (along with Oscar). Jordan also has stated in a radio interview that he may take Worthy over Kobe. Once again this is from players who KNOW the quality of his game.
This may sound like blasphemy now, but in '87 in the Finals the word was beginning that many considered Wothy a Top 5 player in the game at the time which lasted for the late '80's. Once again, if you weren't there you would have no idea. Here's Pat Riley: "I don't think there has been or will be a better small forward than James, and I don't think people appreciated that," said his coach, Pat Riley, to the Los Angeles Daily News upon Worthy's retirement. "He was always such a quiet guy. But when he was in his prime, I can guarantee you, there wasn't anybody who could touch him."
If you think a malcontent like Mark Aguirre was better than Worthy, you have ZERO idea about the game of basketball. Period.
Worthy had sick skills, athleticism, drive, size, IQ. He was the total package.
I have no problem with anyone saying 'Nique was a little better as he was an AMAZING offensive player. But I'll take Worthy all day if I'm starting a team.
Dominique obviously had the edge in scoring and overall dominance. But Worthy was more consistent and reliable. He was extremely clutch despite not being a star, something Dominique never really was.
Yeah, they were just too different in terms of role and to a lesser extent style. It's almost like comparing Rip Hamilton to TMac.
Re: James Worthy vs Dominique Wilkins
He obviously played no role. It's obvious Nique would've took out Magic Johnson everytime.
Repped.
