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Old 09-09-2009, 04:05 AM   #31
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax
just for a record I'm not Kobe fan, I don't even like his game, but the ridiculous overhyping of Jordan on these boards needs to stop - he couldn't win a jack in the 80's, only putting up empty stat sheets and constant loses in the playoffs, I watched him playing late in his carrer in a stacked Bulls team with a GOAT coach and still needing ref help to beat poor Jazz ( Game 6 of 1998 Finals was a disgrace of highest order). He was a very good player, but he wasn't GOD, as some posters here try to convince us.

Word brother. But some minor correction, Jordan didn't have a GOAT coach. The coach is overrated and is just riding Jordan's coattails which were supported by David Stern.

With that said, Jordan >>>> Kobe.
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Old 09-09-2009, 05:11 AM   #32
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Jordan's 1988 MVP was a joke?

Jordan averaged 35 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 3.2 spg and 1.6 bpg on 53.5% shooting. Not including Sam Vincent who played just 29 games, Jordan by himself averaged 3 more ppg than the 2nd, 3rd and 4th scorers combined. He carried a team to 50 wins.

Bird averaged 29.9 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.6 spg and 0.8 bpg on 52.7% shooting(41.4% on 3's and 91.6% on free throws). The Celtics won 57 games, but his supporting cast wasn't Dave Corzine, Charles Oakley, Brad Sellers and John Paxson.

I know you don't agree that Jordan deserved DPOY, but I'm sure we can agree that he was better defensively than Bird was.

I don't have a problem with you thinking Bird was more deserving, but calling Jordan's MVP a joke is ridiculous. He had a great case.
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:45 AM   #33
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted Mind
Another derogatory thread towards Jordan from this poster? Bird was better than Jordan in '87, but by '88 Jordan had surpassed Bird. And since you chose to emphasize on '88 by denominating Jordan's 88 MVP award as a joke, here are their head to head stats in 1988.


Cummulative Stats in 1988


Bird:
59%
33.5ppg
9.0rpg/6.3apg/1.0spg/0.3bpg

Jordan:
55%
39.3ppg
4.0rpg/7.5apg/2.8spg/1.0bpg



Jordan has the scoring edge and even dished more assists than Bird. Bird did a better job rebounding. Jordan also had more steals and blocks. However, they only partially do the job in justifying Jordan's significant advantage over Bird on the defensive end. Head to head in 1988, Jordan has a good case for doing a better job on offense, and obviously was the much more effective defender.

Factor in Bird had better defensive teammates making it even more difficult and staggering on Jordan, Jordan is the clear winner here head to head.

Thus, the 1988 MVP was no 'joke', especially considering your head to head evidence presented.

Gifted Mind just ended the Thread.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:31 AM   #34
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

is it safe to say yhe kobe owned jordan in 01-03 season ?
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:31 AM   #35
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gifted Mind
Another derogatory thread towards Jordan from this poster? Bird was better than Jordan in '87, but by '88 Jordan had surpassed Bird. And since you chose to emphasize on '88 by denominating Jordan's 88 MVP award as a joke, here are their head to head stats in 1988.


Cummulative Stats in 1988


Bird:
59%
33.5ppg
9.0rpg/6.3apg/1.0spg/0.3bpg

Jordan:
55%
39.3ppg
4.0rpg/7.5apg/2.8spg/1.0bpg



Jordan has the scoring edge and even dished more assists than Bird. Bird did a better job rebounding. Jordan also had more steals and blocks. However, they only partially do the job in justifying Jordan's significant advantage over Bird on the defensive end. Head to head in 1988, Jordan has a good case for doing a better job on offense, and obviously was the much more effective defender.

Factor in Bird had better defensive teammates making it even more difficult and staggering on Jordan, Jordan is the clear winner here head to head.

Thus, the 1988 MVP was no 'joke', especially considering your head to head evidence presented.


i also want fatal respond to this post too
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:42 AM   #36
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1988.html

Look at this lineup and tell me if they would have won 15 games in an NBA season without MJ, let alone anywhere close to 50 games (Keep in mind that Pippen and Horace were still raw as hell rookies). That alone tells me who deserved the MVP that year.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:22 AM   #37
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

After reading the responses I have concluded that it is not safe to say Bird owned Jordan.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:48 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Yes, but when Jordan owned him he royally owned him. Dropping 60 in a play off game against a prime celtics team. Then 50 on him in later years.

There is a reason Bird is one of the best players of all time. He was no slouch. Too bad for his case Jordan has 6 rings.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:04 AM   #39
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity07
Yes, but when Jordan owned him he royally owned him. Dropping 60 in a play off game against a prime celtics team. Then 50 on him in later years.

There is a reason Bird is one of the best players of all time. He was no slouch. Too bad for his case Jordan has 6 rings.

too bad Jordan never won a SINGLE playoff game against the celtics
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:00 AM   #40
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal9

Kind of makes Jordan's '88 MVP come off as even more of a joke, no? Not that I really care but all you really hear about is the 63 points.

I'll agree, Bird outplayed him. I don't see how it matters with the 88 MVP since its not like either one was guarding each other that much, Jordan more then held his own, and MVPs are never determined by head-to-head matchups. But seriously, stop with this fake bullsh*t. You care about this more then anything in the world. You would forego world peace as long as everyone conceded that Jordan was not the GOAT.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:01 AM   #41
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

How dare you saw Bird owned Jordan!!! We haven't had slavery in this country in over a century. How dare you Sir!!!!! How DARE you!
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:38 AM   #42
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sekachu
i also want fatal respond to this post too

First of all, writing "also" and "too" in the same sentence is redundant.

And First of all, the stats Gifted Mind and OP are using don't appear to match up to me. So as the hottest judge on tv would say, "one of you is a bold faced liar".


Maybe I'll actually do the math to see just how off they are. And maybe I'll look it up and see who's right. Maybe..
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:39 AM   #43
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrofir
First of all, writing "also" and "too" in the same sentence is redundant.

And First of all, the stats Gifted Mind and OP are using don't appear to match up to me. So as the hottest judge on tv would say, "one of you is a bold faced liar".


Maybe I'll actually do the math to see just how off they are. And maybe I'll look it up and see who's right. Maybe..

That's because OP stats are 87 and 88, while Gifted Mind's are from 88 alone (Mike's MVP year).

Quote:
How dare you saw Bird owned Jordan!!! We haven't had slavery in this country in over a century. How dare you Sir!!!!! How DARE you!

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Old 09-09-2009, 11:48 AM   #44
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collie
That's because OP stats are 87 and 88, while Gifted Mind's are from 88 alone (Mike's MVP year).




No, I just did the math. Using the OPs numbers the cumulative averages from 88 are slightly different.

Bird's assist total is correct, but Jordan's is actually 6.5, not 7.5. Their assist total was 25\26 over the 4 games, so practically identical production there. For me, considering the rest of each team, that's impressive for Jordan.

Rebound total for Bird is correct, but Jordan's is off by 1, should be 5.0 not 4.0. So he wins back some ground there, but is still pretty far behind Bird.

I'm not going to really weigh in too strongly on the OPs actual point he's trying to make, because that would be silly.

So I don't really know who's right on the numbers, but I just demonstrated that they don't agree. If the OP inflated the gap by pilfering numbers for Bird, that would be truly funny.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:58 AM   #45
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Bird "owned" Jordan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrofir
First of all, writing "also" and "too" in the same sentence is redundant.

And First of all, the stats Gifted Mind and OP are using don't appear to match up to me. So as the hottest judge on tv would say, "one of you is a bold faced liar".


Maybe I'll actually do the math to see just how off they are. And maybe I'll look it up and see who's right. Maybe..

First of all, writing first of all two times in the same response is redundant. Second, I would have thought you'd have been well aware of that considering the fact you're looking to point out the grammatical errors of someone else.
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