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Old 09-09-2009, 11:12 PM   #31
PejaNowitzki
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

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Originally Posted by Heilige
Do you have a link of a copy of the bill?



http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...USmrc9HtuNNdXA
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:13 PM   #32
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
You mean like the pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies that he's cutting backdoor deals with? He specifically agreed that he would not allow imported drugs from Canada because you know, that might um, save Americans money?


If you believe this man's charade, you're just as much of a fool as the idiot Bushies from a few years ago. He's selling this nation out to corporate interests, not different from Bush, he just presents a "cooler" image to all the superficial goofballs out there.

What he said:


Quote:
Originally Posted by YAWN
hello bill oreily verbatim

after political speeches and what not i always find myself tuning into fox news for the lulz. you just wrote exactly what he said on the show. good one.

At least try being original
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:14 PM   #33
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

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Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki



Much appreciated!
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:16 PM   #34
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heilige
Why are you saying that; he went after Bush as well? i believe he is a libertarian. Bill O'Reilly is not.


Its the same stupid ****. When will you people wake up? A few years ago, the Bush nut-huggers were calling me unpatriotic and worse because I dared to criticize the bull**** he was trying to pull. Now I'm getting the Obama nut-huggers making the same mistake.


The man is not God, he's not infallible. You have no reason to trust that he's honest other than your own personal emotional crush on him. Just like Bush, he manipulates the truth to push his agenda forward. He brings a different face than Bush did, but the agenda is more or less the same. He's a pro-corporate individual who is reducing the rights of the individual and empowering corporate and government control of our lives.


Cutting backroom deals with pharmaceutical companies and some of you still have the nerve to turn him into some sort of healthcare Robin Hood? Give me a break. This is all about control, nothing less.


If it wasn't, why rush a program that won't take effect for 3-4 years?


Why won't Obama and the folks in Congress who support this, take this healthcare for themselves and for their families? Why the unequal divisions? Are the politicians BETTER than the common person that they deserve a separate government system? They want us to have the morsels while they get the fat juicy steak.



Bush, Obama, Bush, Obama, the only difference is if you hated Bush, you stick to Obama's ******* like Krazy Glue and vice-versa. Neither of them gave a damn about you, neither cares about your interest or that of your family.


We have a media that is filled with pure, nonstop propaganda. ABC, MSNBC, Fox, CBS.......they are all the same thing. Pure propaganda that pushes a corporate agenda.



You people that criticized Bush but now kiss up to Obama are the worst piece of **** hypocrites of all. You should know better by now how far unchecked power can take us, but you willingly accept lies and manipulation from one politician because "he's my guy" and not another? No wonder this country is so damn screwed.


Instead of getting us out of war completely, Obama is ramping up an even more dangerous war in Afghanistan and all you *********s sucking his **** are going to have blood on your hands for supporting an agenda that will lead to the death of even more US soldiers.


Some of the same folks that were protesting Bush's excesses and civil rights violations, are now running around with Obama bumper stickers and I realized that these people didn't give a **** about rights or anything else, they were just pissed off that "their guy" wasn't the one violating the Constitution. I've found plenty of hypocrites who are willing to support things by Obama that they would never have supported under Bush. I just honestly wish people would be more consistent. Don't ***** about one guy if you're going to turn around and kiss the other guy's ass for doing many of the same things JUST BECAUSE he is on "your team."



Politics and homerism have reached a new high in this country. Its cool for a president to screw people over, as long as it is "your president." Quite sickening.

Last edited by PejaNowitzki : 09-09-2009 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

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Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Strong response to the points I made. Get lost and go back to your Kim Kardashian reality show you empty-minded ****.

sorry your blatant rip off of EVERY SINGLE THING that was said on the show jumped out at me. Its like your friend asking you what you think of this new song he wrote and then hearing the words to yesterday by the beatles. You focus on that obvious act of ignorance in your response..
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

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Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Wow endless lies from Obama, good stuff! At least one Congressman had the balls to call him out on a blatant lie. If only some Democrats had done the same to Bush, maybe we never would have gone to Iraq in the first place.


http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...05083496&EDATE



If you've read through this bill, and I have(twice), you'd know that much of what Obama claimed was either a deliberate half-truth at best, or a flat-out lie at worst. This bill will cut from Medicare, it will cause people to lose their private healthcare, it will provide unlimited care to illegal immigrants and what is worse, it won't set in until 3-4 years after the fact, well after Obama is re-elected so he doesn't have to worry about the repercussions of this.



Also, the two questions that need to be asked, that nobody has asked.


1. If we so URGENTLY need this healthcare reform, why won't it be enacted until 2013 according to the bill. Just like the stimulus that we needed to sign immediately otherwise the nation would lose 500 million jobs(Nancy Pelosi's words) yet it doesn't kick in mostly until 2012/2013.


2. If this new government option is so great, why are politicians specifically exempted from it in the bill? Why do they get a separate system? Its good enough for the commoners but not the politicians who we elect?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu4r1xfiO3Q





More politics as usual. This whole thing sounds like Bush pounding his fists about Weapons of Mass Destruction. We're being rushed into something that is uncertain, being lied to by an administration and given the run-around. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on you America.

Page 143 states : SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.

Fact Check gives a good run down on things as well.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twe...about-hr-3200/

I do agree with you that the current bill proposed by the House and Senate just won't fly and needs to be redone hopefully in a more bipartisan way.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Its the same stupid ****. When will you people wake up? A few years ago, the Bush nut-huggers were calling me unpatriotic and worse because I dared to criticize the bull**** he was trying to pull. Now I'm getting the Obama nut-huggers making the same mistake.


The man is not God, he's not infallible. You have no reason to trust that he's honest other than your own personal emotional crush on him. Just like Bush, he manipulates the truth to push his agenda forward. He brings a different face than Bush did, but the agenda is more or less the same. He's a pro-corporate individual who is reducing the rights of the individual and empowering corporate and government control of our lives.


Cutting backroom deals with pharmaceutical companies and some of you still have the nerve to turn him into some sort of healthcare Robin Hood? Give me a break. This is all about control, nothing less.


If it wasn't, why rush a program that won't take effect for 3-4 years?


Why won't Obama and the folks in Congress who support this, take this healthcare for themselves and for their families? Why the unequal divisions? Are the politicians BETTER than the common person that they deserve a separate government system? They want us to have the morsels while they get the fat juicy steak.



Bush, Obama, Bush, Obama, the only difference is if you hated Bush, you stick to Obama's ******* like Krazy Glue and vice-versa. Neither of them gave a damn about you, neither cares about your interest or that of your family.


We have a media that is filled with pure, nonstop propaganda. ABC, MSNBC, Fox, CBS.......they are all the same thing. Pure propaganda that pushes a corporate agenda.



You people that criticized Bush but now kiss up to Obama are the worst piece of **** hypocrites of all. You should know better by now how far unchecked power can take us, but you willingly accept lies and manipulation from one politician because "he's my guy" and not another? No wonder this country is so damn screwed.


Instead of getting us out of war completely, Obama is ramping up an even more dangerous war in Afghanistan and all you *********s sucking his **** are going to have blood on your hands for supporting an agenda that will lead to the death of even more US soldiers.


Some of the same folks that were protesting Bush's excesses and civil rights violations, are now running around with Obama bumper stickers and I realized that these people didn't give a **** about rights or anything else, they were just pissed off that "their guy" wasn't the one violating the Constitution. I've found plenty of hypocrites who are willing to support things by Obama that they would never have supported under Bush. I just honestly wish people would be more consistent. Don't ***** about one guy if you're going to turn around and kiss the other guy's ass for doing many of the same things JUST BECAUSE he is on "your team."



Politics and homerism have reached a new high in this country. Its cool for a president to screw people over, as long as it is "your president." Quite sickening.

How are you any better by ranting that those who don't agree with you are fools and hypocrites nut hugging and drinking kool-aid?
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:31 PM   #38
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
Page 143 states : SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.

Fact Check gives a good run down on things as well.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twe...about-hr-3200/

I do agree with you that the current bill proposed by the House and Senate just won't fly and needs to be redone hopefully in a more bipartisan way.



Read my link again. FactCheck is also an organization sponsored by Annenberg, they are about as useful as using the Kato Institute.


There is NO provision in this bill to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving healthcare under this plan. Its like owning a nudie bar, requiring everyone entering to be 18+ but NEVER checking for ID. How useful is that??? These politicians know that and are counting on that. When an amendment to introduce language that would require verification of legality in the US was introduced, it was immediately shot down. Section 246 is simply useful for "political cover" and nothing else.


We have endless laws that regulate illegal immigration in this country, but when none of those laws are enforced or have the teeth to be enforced, then they simply don't work and that is what will continue if this legislation is passed.



The whole bill is chock-full of lawyer speak and deliberately vague claims that are open to interpretation. This was not done by accident.

Last edited by PejaNowitzki : 09-09-2009 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:34 PM   #39
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
How are you any better by ranting that those who don't agree with you are fools and hypocrites nut hugging and drinking kool-aid?


Because I guarantee you many of the same ones who were bashing Bush for Patriot Act, are the same ones kissing up to Obama despite his support of it. The same ones bashing Bush for going to war, happily ignore that Obama is ramping up war in Afghanistan. The same ones who decried the many lies of the Bush administration, happily accept those of the Obama administration.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:41 PM   #40
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaNowitzki
Read my link again. FactCheck is also an organization sponsored by Annenberg, they are about as useful as using the Kato Institute.


There is NO provision in this bill to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving healthcare under this plan. Its like owning a nudie bar, requiring everyone entering to be 18+ but NEVER checking for ID. How useful is that??? These politicians know that and are counting on that. When an amendment to introduce language that would require verification of legality in the US was introduced, it was immediately shot down. Section 246 is simply useful for "political cover" and nothing else.


We have endless laws that regulate illegal immigration in this country, but when none of those laws are enforced or have the teeth to be enforced, then they simply don't work and that is what will continue if this legislation is passed.



The whole bill is chock-full of lawyer speak and deliberately vague claims that are open to interpretation. This was not done by accident.

Can you point out specifically where fact check is wrong. I went to page 143 and saw that in writing. I'm aware of your concern, but it says point blank no illegal immigrants. Provisions need to be put in to tighten it to insure checks and double checks, but I saw that with my own eyes.

Enforcing existing immigration laws is a seperate debate in itself and one in which I agree with you on. If we enforced a number of existing laws it would cut down on a lot of these problems.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:43 PM   #41
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

props to pejanowitzki if he really read the bill.. twice!....
i tried to read it and gave up after an hour.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:49 PM   #42
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Well.... we know one thing for a fact.

Both sides are gonna say truths and half truths, and both sides are gonna lie.

We also know that no matter who's in charge, somebody is gonna profit.

So now that we get that outta the way and get a dose of reality, is this gonna benefit us as a whole?

For every argument there's a counter argument, for every legit point made for it there's a legit point made against it.

We just have to hope it works out to 'some degree' at the end. Because its still gonna be a con and people are gonna profit from it. if people are gonna profit by keeping us healthier and alive, then so be it.

And of course nothing in this life is ever perfect, so there's always gonna be those that get the wrong end of the stick. As long as that number is cut down and the majority benefit I welcome it.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

I do give tons of props to republicans tho.

Them mufuc#as are gangsta with it, they don't care. You guys see them waving them bills in protest?

If Dems only had their b@alls before we went off to war....... puss!es.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
I do give tons of props to republicans tho.

Them mufuc#as are gangsta with it, they don't care. You guys see them waving them bills in protest?

If Dems only had their b@alls before we went off to war....... puss!es.



The opposition is always acting for partisan reasons. However rather than flat-out ignoring them, people need to open their eyes and ears and hear the arguments.


If only more people had listened to Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul and a few others before heading off to Iraq?


Stop listening with your partisan hats on and try to understand the arguments that the other side is making. The Democrats were right on the money with many of their criticism's of Bush. The Republicans are doing the same with Obama, however people don't tend to listen until it is too late.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:00 AM   #45
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Default Re: Obamas Speech to Congress

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcanzIIravor
Can you point out specifically where fact check is wrong. I went to page 143 and saw that in writing. I'm aware of your concern, but it says point blank no illegal immigrants. Provisions need to be put in to tighten it to insure checks and double checks, but I saw that with my own eyes.

Enforcing existing immigration laws is a seperate debate in itself and one in which I agree with you on. If we enforced a number of existing laws it would cut down on a lot of these problems.


There is no provision in the bill to ensure that illegal aliens will not be eligible for healthcare and that such WILL BE ENFORCED. A law is only as good as your ability and willingness to enforce it.


Specific amendments to introduce verification of legality in the US have been shot down. What does that tell you? Without a provision for enforcement, the claim that illegal aliens won't receive healthcare from this reform is at best, a half-truth and at worst, a downright flat out lie.
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