Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2006, 11:00 PM   #16
XxNeXuSxX
The Master Debater
 
XxNeXuSxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UConn
Posts: 8,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Not high scoring teams but teams that dont play defense. The object of a team is to win a title but that style will never win so i have noi respect for it.

My girls team if famous(were the highest scoring team in womens bball) for running the system. They have amazing regular season stats and blow out the middle and bad teams by 40 but when they play good teams in the playoffs they never win it all or even get to the finals. the system has not worked on any level in non regular season games.

Go check out the teams that have run the system. D'Antoni didnt invent this there is a book on this style by the Grinnel head bball coach.

I guess you missed the 60s and most of the 80s? Because I think your defining "teams that don't play defense" as teams that run with the ball. And quite frankly, thats BS.
XxNeXuSxX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:01 PM   #17
XxNeXuSxX
The Master Debater
 
XxNeXuSxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UConn
Posts: 8,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Not high scoring teams but teams that dont play defense. The object of a team is to win a title but that style will never win so i have noi respect for it.

My girls team if famous(were the highest scoring team in womens bball) for running the system. They have amazing regular season stats and blow out the middle and bad teams by 40 but when they play good teams in the playoffs they never win it all or even get to the finals. the system has not worked on any level in non regular season games.

Go check out the teams that have run the system. D'Antoni didnt invent this there is a book on this style by the Grinnel head bball coach.

I guess you missed the 60s and most of the 80s? Because I think your defining "teams that don't play defense" as teams that run with the ball. And quite frankly, thats BS.
XxNeXuSxX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:01 PM   #18
XxNeXuSxX
The Master Debater
 
XxNeXuSxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UConn
Posts: 8,000
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Not high scoring teams but teams that dont play defense. The object of a team is to win a title but that style will never win so i have noi respect for it.

My girls team if famous(were the highest scoring team in womens bball) for running the system. They have amazing regular season stats and blow out the middle and bad teams by 40 but when they play good teams in the playoffs they never win it all or even get to the finals. the system has not worked on any level in non regular season games.

Go check out the teams that have run the system. D'Antoni didnt invent this there is a book on this style by the Grinnel head bball coach.

I guess you missed the 60s and most of the 80s? Because I think your defining "teams that don't play defense" as teams that run with the ball. And quite frankly, thats BS.
XxNeXuSxX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:03 PM   #19
Ricardo Tubbs
High School JV MVP
 
Ricardo Tubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 213
Default

Quote:
Perhaps in PPG (which is a huge misleading stat anyway) but they were not good defensively. They were average at best.

Yeah, like I said, they were not as good as their stats, but they were solid.

Quote:
Not high scoring teams but teams that dont play defense.

They do play defense you dumbass, they are just incredibly undersized so they get outrebounded heavily and can't stop big men. Exactly how much defense can Marion and Diaw play against guys who are three inches taller and 40 pounds heavier?

You do what you can with what you got. It is not Steve Nash's fault that their biggest starter was Tim Thomas.

Quote:
They have amazing regular season stats and blow out the middle and bad teams by 40 but when they play good teams in the playoffs they never win it all or even get to the finals.

Give them one, just one, solid true PF/C who can rebound and defend and they would've won it last season. How the fvck are you supposed to win a title with Pat Burke as your only big man? Explain that to me.

Quote:
Go check out the teams that have run the system. D'Antoni didnt invent this there is a book on this style by the Grinnel head bball coach.

WTF are you babbling about now?
Ricardo Tubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:06 PM   #20
fatboy11
NBA sixth man of the year
 
fatboy11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,809
Default

People forget/never knew how good a prime Mark Price was.
fatboy11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:08 PM   #21
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 11,987
Default

The Cavs were an ok defense who slowed the game down a lot. Limited posessions by using so much of the clock feeding the post as many times as it took to get Brad where he wanted to be. Does depend on if you mean the fratello Cavs or wilkins cavs though. Played differently in ways.

The feeding the post and using the clock style is mostly why Price didnt rack up huge numbers. That plus playing with Terrell Brandon for about half of his prime. Having a really good backup point limited his minutes(and playmaking to a lesser degree). He got all NBA first team over Stockton playing just 31 minutes a night and splitting ball handling duties with Brandon who played like 20. Sometimes with Price at the 2. Brandon was just too good not to play.

Was kinda like Nash and Vanexel were for a couple years.
Kblaze8855 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:08 PM   #22
Younggrease
Banned
 
Younggrease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,767
Default ...

just giving background on the system the suns run. D'Antoni prob just read this dudes book.

"Yet 14 years ago when Arseneault was hired to coach a team that had been through 25 consecutive losing seasons, he was willing to try anything.

The result was "The System," which encourages his players to shoot from anywhere and allow opponents uncontested layups. Ignoring traditional strategies of sound defense and working for an easy shot, he has produced a winning team and the most prolific offense in the nation.

Grinnell is averaging 128.9 points a game this season, the highest in college basketball at any level. With three games left in the regular season, Grinnell is on pace to break the NCAA-record scoring average of 124.9 it set last year.

"What we've tried to do is perfect chaos," Arseneault said. "People hate to play us."
"
Younggrease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:08 PM   #23
nerds
I hit open layups
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 160
Default ...

doesn't matter anymore, Mark Price is coaching down here in Australia

http://www.nbl.com.au/default.aspx?s...splay&aid=3391
nerds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:11 PM   #24
Locked_Up_Tonight
National High School Star
 
Locked_Up_Tonight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,069
Default

Quote:
People forget/never knew how good a prime Mark Price was.

Only when comparing him to Nash.

When Price played no one thought he was that good either. Everyone thought he was extremely overrated.

Funny how that applies to Nash and they use the extremely overrated one as proof that Nash is overrated.

Mark Price was good. For about a 3-4 year stretch. But he just was not durable enough to have a good career. Very similar to Chris Mullin in that regard. Dominant at their position for an extremely short period of time... but lack in terms of career numbers.

And trying to say: such and such would be an MVP if only" is stupid. Why?

Well let's use that logic: Dirk would have been MVP had Harris/Terry/Howard/Stack/Griff not gotten hurt in the regular season because the Mavs would have wound up with the best record.
Locked_Up_Tonight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:13 PM   #25
Younggrease
Banned
 
Younggrease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,767
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight
Only when comparing him to Nash.

When Price played no one thought he was that good either. Everyone thought he was extremely overrated.

Funny how that applies to Nash and they use the extremely overrated one as proof that Nash is overrated.

Mark Price was good. For about a 3-4 year stretch. But he just was not durable enough to have a good career. Very similar to Chris Mullin in that regard. Dominant at their position for an extremely short period of time... but lack in terms of career numbers.

And trying to say: such and such would be an MVP if only" is stupid. Why?

Well let's use that logic: Dirk would have been MVP had Harris/Terry/Howard/Stack/Griff not gotten hurt in the regular season because the Mavs would have wound up with the best record.

thats not really the same logic. Maybe you should take a logic Reasoning course or something.
Younggrease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:25 PM   #26
Ricardo Tubbs
High School JV MVP
 
Ricardo Tubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 213
Default

Quote:
When Price played no one thought he was that good either. Everyone thought he was extremely overrated.

I don't know about "extremely," but yeah, many did think he was overrated. I myself thought KJ was better back then, although he probably wasn't, looking back now.

Quote:
The result was "The System," which encourages his players to shoot from anywhere and allow opponents uncontested layups. Ignoring traditional strategies of sound defense and working for an easy shot, he has produced a winning team and the most prolific offense in the nation.

Exactly how the fvck is this anything like Phoenix's system? Phoenix runs tons of pick-n-rolls, they pass until they get a wide open shot, they run the break all the time specifically to get easy shots, and they try as hard as they can on defense (Heard of Raja Bell? Ever seen him play?).

You have made no points whatsoever in your sh!ttastic venture to try and convince people that Steve Nash sucks. None. Try making a topic about how much the Knicks suck instead, because you can't lose that argument.
Ricardo Tubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:29 PM   #27
Younggrease
Banned
 
Younggrease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,767
Default ..

well obviously you have never seen them play or any other team that runs the system. BEcause they run pick and rolls all the time. ANd every1 on the court can shoot. It is exactly like the Suns.

I watch the system for 2 years and its exactly the same as the suns run. IT is so revolutionary in AMerican bball that it has had 2 regualr season D3 games played on ESPN.
Younggrease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2006, 11:34 PM   #28
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 11,987
Default

Quote:
When Price played no one thought he was that good either. Everyone thought he was extremely overrated.

No they didnt. When he got hurt and the Cavs only won like 25 games without him(they won like 34 total but he played part of the year) and he came back and they won 57-60 he had a similar kind of "He makes this team win" hype Nash got on the Suns. And the next year he kept getting that praise. Got MVP votes. But when your comp is MJ in his prime(in a 67 and 55 win team the 2 years), Barkley on a 62 win team, Hakeem on a 55 win team, Drob on a good team, Ewing leading a 60 win team, and the Sonics in the 55 win range it takes more than that to win. Not to mention Drexler, Malone, and so on having good years in 92 and 93.

Plenty of people had him as the best point in the L ahead of Stockton. Thats why he was all NBA first team. He just had to compete with too much. Nash wouldnt approach an MVP in a league with MJ, Barkley, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Drexler and so on. Plus he had Magic, Bird, Isiah, and so on in the league during the first all star years. And at the time you also had KJ leading 55+ win teams in Phoenix and Tim hardaway with Run TMC.

Right now Nashs best comp for recognition as the best point is a declining(but still good) Kidd, a rookie Paul, Baron Davis who cant stay on the court and Marbury.

He really never stood a chance at MVP in that league. Too much in his way. Bron, Kobe, and Dirk are stiff comp. But MJ, Hakeem, Magic, and Barkley(who won all the MVPs from 88-94)? Whats he supposed to do? He just never stood a chance vs that.

Hes just not remembered as so great because there were so many guys to overshadow him.
Kblaze8855 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 12:11 AM   #29
Locked_Up_Tonight
National High School Star
 
Locked_Up_Tonight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,069
Default

Quote:
No they didnt. When he got hurt and the Cavs only won like 25 games without him(they won like 34 total but he played part of the year) and he came back and they won 57-60 he had a similar kind of "He makes this team win" hype Nash got on the Suns. And the next year he kept getting that praise. Got MVP votes. But when your comp is MJ in his prime(in a 67 and 55 win team the 2 years), Barkley on a 62 win team, Hakeem on a 55 win team, Drob on a good team, Ewing leading a 60 win team, and the Sonics in the 55 win range it takes more than that to win. Not to mention Drexler, Malone, and so on having good years in 92 and 93.

For 1 year he was the best point guard in the league. Haf he gotten that distinction had Magic not retired because of AIDS? I seriosly doubt it.
Locked_Up_Tonight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 12:19 AM   #30
Ricardo Tubbs
High School JV MVP
 
Ricardo Tubbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 213
Default

Quote:
Hes just not remembered as so great because there were so many guys to overshadow him.

Not to mention that they ran the most apnea-inducing offense of all time. Really, what Price was doing back then, except for the shooting of course, was the exact opposite of what Nash is doing now in Phoenix. That will never get you very far on the list of great PGs. How you run a high tempo offense is probably the real benchmark of a PG's true ability.

And when Fratello tried to change it, well, that did not work too well.

Quote:
I watch the system for 2 years and its exactly the same as the suns run. IT is so revolutionary in AMerican bball that it has had 2 regualr season D3 games played on ESPN

That system's biggest gimmick is this: nobody plays more than a minute or two at a time. Guess what? Nobody in the NBA does that. The closest was Memphis and their hockey-style subs a couple years ago.

Fastbreak, counterattacking, high-scoring offense has been around FOREVER. Ever heard of the Denver Nuggets? Look 'em up.

The system you're talking about is all quantity, little quality. They shoot sh!tty percentages and just make up for it in volume. The Suns play with far more quality and therefore with far more structure. No D3 system is anywhere near "exactly the same" as a true NBA system.

Nobody plays over 20MPG for them. How is that an NBA system?

And you still haven't gotten the point that the Suns do play defense. They are undersized, but they try. If they didn't, they'd be way worse than midpack in points allowed.
Ricardo Tubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:38 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy