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Old 10-02-2009, 10:23 PM   #31
623baller
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Automajic23
IDK man big numbers like that are just not realistic at all, not even @ AAU level.
Players generally don't drop 20-30 a game unless their team sucks, the offense is built purely around them, or the other team is terrible.

34 pts = 17 shot opportunities at least, 11.5 if you sank 11 3s and a layup. Just think about the numbers you are posting, not realistic unless the talent you are playing with is way below you.

Like I said, when I've played with better teams in the past, scoring 10-14pts was HIGH for me, because the team is GOOD. There is no reason for me to try to score more or I'd hurt my team. When you're on a good team that can attack in many ways efficiently, scoring more than 16pts is farfetched unless everything stopped working and you needed to "lebron" it in the closing minutes.

Just think about the game you described. 34pts with 10 asts. I posted a game where I scored 43pts once, but my team was horrible and I had the ball in my hands almost every possession and did not sit. The other team also had no bench so I literally ran down the court and layed it in (probably about 12 times). It was a high scoring game for me against a crappy team, with a crappier team cuz we still lost.

If you can drop 34, I honestly think the way you protect the ball going up is perfectly fine. If you are dropping 20+ pts on a legit team against legit comp then you shouldn't be taking advice from me because you are probably far better.


yea, i guess i get to score that much because offense is usually built around me. i am usually the first or second option when running offensive sets, so avging 20 ppg for me is not a stretch goal. the only reason why im even playing PG this season is because im the only guard on the team, rest are all bigs or athletic types.

and yea 34 ( 3 3pters, 4 mid range jumpers, 5 lay ups/paint, 7 free throws) is my career high so far that's why i kinda bragged about it haha, let alone i handed off close to 10 assists, and sat out the last 5 mins. (there was a big mismatch at the guard position, and the other team's guards keeps turning the ball over)

credits of the assists all goes to my teammates for running the lane and keeping the spacing just right so we capitalized on every fast break. no way i can do that without competent teammates.

thanks again for your advices though, i do agree with a lot of your view points on this and several other topics, and they are very well appreciated! i guess i wasn't too specific in terms of my style of play and question which led to the
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

[quote=Automajic23]

-The competition your playing is terrible
-Your team is amazingly good and you are getting wide open looks and taking a high volume of shots
-you were literally on fire for a day


QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Automajic23
IDK man big numbers like that are just not realistic at all, not even @ AAU level.
Players generally don't drop 20-30 a game unless their team sucks, the offense is built purely around them, or the other team is terrible.

.

How tall is 623balller and how much does he weight, what's his vertical like?

to 623baller and automajic:

I believe 100% of 623baller 34 point 10 assist game. I do agree it is hard to go 30 and 10 or even 10 and 10, but not impossible.

I have a friend who is 16 years old 5'11 plays both varsity and AAu ball in the ghetto of New York. He dropped 50 points in one of his AAU games. Here's what he said happened in his own words.

u can say both..i concentrated like 2hours b4 the game deep concentration..becuz i was madd we lost b4..so i said to myself we not losing..so when the game start i hit a 3 and my coach told me to do my thang
they kept switching up..man & zone
in zone thats when i killed them
cause i was hot so i was hitting crazy 3s and when they came out to me it was a punfake and 1dribble pullup or take it to the rack
i didnt even get winded that game i was that focused


About the crazy stats numbers and competition: Though the team 623baller was playing was garbage. Some players game gets better as the competition gets better. Their is no finer example then our very own lilojmayo. It doesn't matter if lilojmayo is playing against guys who don't have enough skills to play HS ball or guys 10 years older then him. He still puts up numbers. 30+ scoring games, trouble doubles, flirts with quadruple doubles. He is averaging like 31 PPG his last 5 league games.

I think dab0yech0 said lilojmayo was a 20/10 machine that is a career game for most.

Last edited by LebrickJames84' : 10-03-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

I have been getting stripped when I blow past my defender a lot lately, I dont know what is going on with that. Good news is, my fadeaway is back and my defense has gotten better. Tip to all: Do not, I repeat, do not take an extended break from basketball.
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Are they ripping you when you get passed them poking the ball from behind while you're still trying to dribble, or are they stripping you when you get ready to go up for a layup at that point where you put both hands on the ball right before going up (I'm great at this)?

I'm going to use this picture to illustrate

If it's the first, when you get passed a defender, don't assume all is done and he is out of the play. You're Mo Williams. Gibson's stance is slightly staggered, he's trying to force you right/middle so let's just assume you're going to take that and go middle (although, given the choice if you attack the defender's frontmost foot [in this case going to Gibson's right, your left, it'll take them longer to recover]).

Once you get fully passed him with a right handed dribble, your next dribble has to either be a crossover back to your left hand while totally cutting him off or a long dribble (far ahead of you and catching up to it), to prevent him from swinging around your right shoulder and poking it with your left hand.

As he's giving chance, you might even want to make contact with him on your back so you can feel what side of you he is on as well as seal him off from getting back in front of you (CP3 and Deron Williams are great at this), then make your next move knowing where he is and that your team now has a 5 on 4 advantage because he is totally out of the play defensively being that he is behind you.
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix18
I have been getting stripped when I blow past my defender a lot lately, I dont know what is going on with that. Good news is, my fadeaway is back and my defense has gotten better. Tip to all: Do not, I repeat, do not take an extended break from basketball.


I here ya man. I took about a 3 week break and I could barely even dribble when I started back again. And for protecting the ball just hold that **** as if it where a billion dollars.
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:28 PM   #36
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyO
I here ya man. I took about a 3 week break and I could barely even dribble when I started back again. And for protecting the ball just hold that **** as if it where a billion dollars.


If it was a billion dollars, I would lay it up either. I was talking about dribbling past the guy and he strips from behind, which has never happened to me before, but this guy I play against is doing it to me about 50% of the time. Yesterday, I destroyed him scoring 20 on him and we were playing one's and two's. Couldnt drive past him that well without getting stripped though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 50inchvertical
Are they ripping you when you get passed them poking the ball from behind while you're still trying to dribble, or are they stripping you when you get ready to go up for a layup at that point where you put both hands on the ball right before going up (I'm great at this)?
I'm going to use this picture to illustrate

If it's the first, when you get passed a defender, don't assume all is done and he is out of the play. You're Mo Williams. Gibson's stance is slightly staggered, he's trying to force you right/middle so let's just assume you're going to take that and go middle (although, given the choice if you attack the defender's frontmost foot [in this case going to Gibson's right, your left, it'll take them longer to recover]).

Once you get fully passed him with a right handed dribble, your next dribble has to either be a crossover back to your left hand while totally cutting him off or a long dribble (far ahead of you and catching up to it), to prevent him from swinging around your right shoulder and poking it with your left hand.

As he's giving chance, you might even want to make contact with him on your back so you can feel what side of you he is on as well as seal him off from getting back in front of you (CP3 and Deron Williams are great at this), then make your next move knowing where he is and that your team now has a 5 on 4 advantage because he is totally out of the play defensively being that he is behind you.


Yeah, I will practice this over the weekend. Thanks.
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Old 10-03-2009, 10:50 PM   #37
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix18
If it was a billion dollars, I would lay it up either. I was talking about dribbling past the guy and he strips from behind, which has never happened to me before, but this guy I play against is doing it to me about 50% of the time. Yesterday, I destroyed him scoring 20 on him and we were playing one's and two's. Couldnt drive past him that well without getting stripped though.





Yeah, I will practice this over the weekend. Thanks.
I have a problem with getting stripped from behind too because I'm really short.
I just do a extra little bounce so they can't reach the ball.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:45 PM   #38
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix18
If it was a billion dollars, I would lay it up either. I was talking about dribbling past the guy and he strips from behind, which has never happened to me before, but this guy I play against is doing it to me about 50% of the time. Yesterday, I destroyed him scoring 20 on him and we were playing one's and two's. Couldnt drive past him that well without getting stripped though.





Yeah, I will practice this over the weekend. Thanks.
Did the picture not show up for you? If not, I'll host it myself. It's somewhat crucial to what I was explaining, or helps a bunch to see it.

If "And 1's manager" didn't steal my ****ing camera I'd post some vids of myself playing as I put this type of stuff into play regularly.

Sometimes you just have to see it. Check out youtube.com , search for "Ganon Baker" and subscribe to both his user names. They have great lessons on there
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:18 AM   #39
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 50inchvertical
Did the picture not show up for you? If not, I'll host it myself. It's somewhat crucial to what I was explaining, or helps a bunch to see it.

If "And 1's manager" didn't steal my ****ing camera I'd post some vids of myself playing as I put this type of stuff into play regularly.

Sometimes you just have to see it. Check out youtube.com , search for "Ganon Baker" and subscribe to both his user names. They have great lessons on there
Yeah, I can see the picture, just left it out the quote so that the page doesnt get too big. I am **** about things like that. I just saw Ganon Baker and his associate Micah. Those guys are awesome and I was shocked at how good they were. I thought I was good and now I feel like crap after seeing them.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:39 PM   #40
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix18
I just saw Ganon Baker and his associate Micah. Those guys are awesome and I was shocked at how good they were. I thought I was good and now I feel like crap after seeing them.

You and everybody else. They're amazing.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:35 PM   #41
623baller
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 50inchvertical
Are they ripping you when you get passed them poking the ball from behind while you're still trying to dribble, or are they stripping you when you get ready to go up for a layup at that point where you put both hands on the ball right before going up (I'm great at this)?

I'm going to use this picture to illustrate

If it's the first, when you get passed a defender, don't assume all is done and he is out of the play. You're Mo Williams. Gibson's stance is slightly staggered, he's trying to force you right/middle so let's just assume you're going to take that and go middle (although, given the choice if you attack the defender's frontmost foot [in this case going to Gibson's right, your left, it'll take them longer to recover]).

Once you get fully passed him with a right handed dribble, your next dribble has to either be a crossover back to your left hand while totally cutting him off or a long dribble (far ahead of you and catching up to it), to prevent him from swinging around your right shoulder and poking it with your left hand.

As he's giving chance, you might even want to make contact with him on your back so you can feel what side of you he is on as well as seal him off from getting back in front of you (CP3 and Deron Williams are great at this), then make your next move knowing where he is and that your team now has a 5 on 4 advantage because he is totally out of the play defensively being that he is behind you.


thanks for the advices, my problem is more with when i burnt the first guy and get ready to go up (already in my steps) , i get stripped either by help defense or the guy from behind strips me. I hear what you say with making contact with people behind you and i do see CP3 do that a lot. My frustration comes when i get called offesenive foul sometimes when i "protect" the ball too much , Ref said i extend out my hand which appears to be shoving or pushing off the defender's slap. i think i am finding a cause to my problem. Maybe it's because i kind of slow down when i start taking my steps to the lay up, it allowed defense to react. but i think overall, my problem is getting better. i do go lower or higher depending on who's guarding me now.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:48 PM   #42
623baller
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

[quote=LebrickJames84']
Quote:
Originally Posted by Automajic23

-The competition your playing is terrible
-Your team is amazingly good and you are getting wide open looks and taking a high volume of shots
-you were literally on fire for a day


QUOTE]



How tall is 623balller and how much does he weight, what's his vertical like?

to 623baller and automajic:

I believe 100% of 623baller 34 point 10 assist game. I do agree it is hard to go 30 and 10 or even 10 and 10, but not impossible.

I have a friend who is 16 years old 5'11 plays both varsity and AAu ball in the ghetto of New York. He dropped 50 points in one of his AAU games. Here's what he said happened in his own words.

u can say both..i concentrated like 2hours b4 the game deep concentration..becuz i was madd we lost b4..so i said to myself we not losing..so when the game start i hit a 3 and my coach told me to do my thang
they kept switching up..man & zone
in zone thats when i killed them
cause i was hot so i was hitting crazy 3s and when they came out to me it was a punfake and 1dribble pullup or take it to the rack
i didnt even get winded that game i was that focused


About the crazy stats numbers and competition: Though the team 623baller was playing was garbage. Some players game gets better as the competition gets better. Their is no finer example then our very own lilojmayo. It doesn't matter if lilojmayo is playing against guys who don't have enough skills to play HS ball or guys 10 years older then him. He still puts up numbers. 30+ scoring games, trouble doubles, flirts with quadruple doubles. He is averaging like 31 PPG his last 5 league games.

I think dab0yech0 said lilojmayo was a 20/10 machine that is a career game for most.

5 10, 160lb, never measured my vertical but i say it's average.

i do get comments on my speed(first step and overall explosiveness),shot and distribution quite often.

the league is comprised of people from 5 8~ 6 6 (half the people in the league is 6ft +, i actually dont think height matters too much in most amaturer leauges as long as the team is skilled)

used to be a pass first guard type of player, then moved onto a pure shooter role, trying to evolve my game into inside and out. i think it's getting there but still some kinks i need to work out.


thanks for sharing the experience that your friend had, must be sweet to score 50 as not many can claim that. and defintely agree that 10 10 , 20 10 is pretty hard to achieve , a lot needs to happen for those #s to be there.

Last edited by 623baller : 10-05-2009 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

[quote=623baller]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LebrickJames84'

5 10, 160lb, never measured my vertical but i say it's average.

i do get comments on my speed(first step and overall explosiveness),shot and distribution quite often.

the league is comprised of people from 5 8~ 6 6 (half the people in the league is 6ft +, i actually dont think height matters too much in most amaturer leauges as long as the team is skilled)

used to be a pass first guard type of player, then moved onto a pure shooter role, trying to evolve my game into inside and out. i think it's getting there but still some kinks i need to work out

nah height doesn't matter much at all unless your team plays man D, then it's easy to exploit. A lot of time thought the shorter guy is stronger and if that guy shows the bigger player resistance in the post that bigger guy will give up and just fade further from the hoop.

By the sound of that I'm going to guess you're that slithery guy that can hit the 3, and somehow manage to put in a heap of midrange shots and floaters near the paint. Now that I think of it there was a short older guy in my winter league last year and he avged 22ppg, in a competitive league. I don't think he's as young and athletic as you are but he makes it proven that a good shooter and half smart player can score a lot.

And I wasn't trying to throw salt in your game before, I make these kinds of threads so people can post stories like yours. Sorry if it seemed like it, post on!
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:40 AM   #44
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

[quote=Automajic23]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 623baller

nah height doesn't matter much at all unless your team plays man D, then it's easy to exploit. A lot of time thought the shorter guy is stronger and if that guy shows the bigger player resistance in the post that bigger guy will give up and just fade further from the hoop.

By the sound of that I'm going to guess you're that slithery guy that can hit the 3, and somehow manage to put in a heap of midrange shots and floaters near the paint. Now that I think of it there was a short older guy in my winter league last year and he avged 22ppg, in a competitive league. I don't think he's as young and athletic as you are but he makes it proven that a good shooter and half smart player can score a lot.

And I wasn't trying to throw salt in your game before, I make these kinds of threads so people can post stories like yours. Sorry if it seemed like it, post on!


No Problem at all man, i appreciate all comments and i definitely hear you on your view points! and i most definitely agree with you !!! i made this post so i can get all feedbacks to improve my game and for others out there with similar problem.

i basically play off my shot, i don't have a set move. i start my offense base on how defense plays me. if i m open i hit the 3, if they guard me thats where i drive in for pull up/lay up base on 2nd line of defense plays me. So unless, they have a seriously good perimeter defender to stop my shot initially, it is a hard match up.
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:08 AM   #45
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Default Re: protecting the ball while driving in for a lay up?

Just keep practicing keeping your non-dribbling hand up while dribbling. Also try to be aware of it. It might not always come to you automatically in some situations, so you'll also have to think quicker.
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