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Old 12-08-2009, 02:56 AM   #46
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
That is one of the most poorly written articles I have ever read. It gives me great hope, as an aspiring journalist. Are you sure that this is from the Oakland Tribune? It looks like a random blog posting, to me (and is written like one).

His arguments for Woodson being a disappointment were that he hadn't thrived as a receiver in the NFL and he hadn't had a lot of kick returns for TDs.

I'm a Michigan fan and I watched Woodson when he was a great RB for Fremont High School in Ohio. I've followed his career very closely, as he is probably my favorite college player of all-time.

To hear this revisionist history that he was 'overrated' in Oakland is totally ridiculous and I certainly don't remember hearing anything even close to that during his first five years in the league. When he began struggling with injury, people suddenly had a short memory (like this article, which was written while C-Wood was still recovering).

I remember his early years in Oakland well... He was a great, great player. I would watch the Raiders play specifically to see how he was doing in the NFL and the answer was clear each and every weekend.

For this guy to bring up offensive receptions and kick/punt returns when evaluating the career of a cornerback... It doesn't warrant even being discussed. Those things would be a bonus for a player like Woodson, not something that you base a guy's career on.
well dude I am sure he was good...obviously he had talent...

I am just telling you what I remember about him from his past, and it was almost identical to that of Roy Williams...someone who had a ton of hype coming out of college, got early probowls, and then was seen as overrated and undeserving...

my guess is that he probably was great but that the injuries sparked alot of debate and people got real down on him...and then him being a CB, who is never seen on camera playing, probably had alot of people questioning if he was ever very good at all...


he played WR and CB in college btw...sure you know that, but it isn't like that writer was just making that up...

I am sure he planned on being a two-way player like Deion...but then they realized it just wasn't practical at all...
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:58 AM   #47
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Once again... 2005. I don't see what that proves. If you find an article from 1999-2004, it will have a bearing on this conversation.

He was suffering through serious injuries from around the middle of 2004-06. Maybe even a little earlier than that. I also like that they criticize his 'run support.' That has always been a strength of Woodson, which should have been a tipoff to these writers that he was hurting and couldn't come up and make the big stops like he would normally do.
well that isn't really fair...

there are no articles about Roy Williams being overrated early in his career because that is when everyone was voting him into the probowl...everyone was convinced he was a complete badass his first few years...

it isn't like someone can write him up as overrated during his rookie year...
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:02 AM   #48
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

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Originally Posted by ~primetime~
he played WR and CB in college btw...sure you know that, but it isn't like that writer was just making that up...
Right, but I don't ever remember him being projected as a two-way player coming out of college. He played very little WR for Michigan during the course of his three years. He made some big plays his senior year, but he didn't see a ton of snaps.

He was also never a great kick/punt returner. He burned Ohio State in one of the biggest moments in the history of the rivalry, but I never considered that a strong suit for him.

Cornerback is his position and that is what he should be judged by.

Personally, I thought that he was close to the end in 2005-06, at least as a corner (could have switched to safety or nickle back). It just seemed like his body was breaking down and he didn't have much left. Plus, five really great years for a cornerback is a good career considering that position is so difficult to maintain.

That makes his resurgence the past three years so amazing.

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Old 12-08-2009, 03:03 AM   #49
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

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Originally Posted by ~primetime~
well that isn't really fair...

there are no articles about Roy Williams being overrated early in his career because that is when everyone was voting him into the probowl...everyone was convinced he was a complete badass his first few years...

it isn't like someone can write him up as overrated during his rookie year...
Your rookie year and your first FIVE years are two totally different things. All of these articles are from a relatively tiny two year gap in his decade-long career. It is no coincidence that they coincide with his two-year long battle with injuries.
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:10 AM   #50
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

I don't really disagree with what you are saying, again I am just telling you what I remember and trying to show evidience of it...

I think we are both kind of saying the same thing now anyway...

"he was great early on, and then the injury issues changed people's views on him, maybe even made them forget that he was great, overrated, ect..."



also, I am sure that there were alot of people, including Charles himself, that did picture him as a "Deionesque" type 2-way player that was a bad ass punt returner...but when you don't have any highlights to show people on SportsCenter, it got seen as a big let down to some people...

when Newman came to Dallas he wanted to be a 2-way player but Parcells wouldn't allow it...it isn't that unncommon I don't think...


and yeah I agree that this come back of his is amazing...he is the only player on that 2005 Sporting News list that is relevant today...
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:30 AM   #51
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

Woodson was overrated for a while in Oakland. I think he got jaded and lazy by the bay. Going to Greenbay I think he red-dedicated himself to the game and actually got into becoming a complete defensive player.
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:55 AM   #52
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

That overrated article was pretty spot on. The only guys on the list who "redeemed" themselves are Mawae and Woodson.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:07 AM   #53
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

i was right about rice, i only said it cause i needed him to suck in my fantasy league so i could win, im not saying i can predict the future, but the signs sure are there

ps. wrap up tomorrow is will be cold where one of you live, but im not saying whoooooo
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

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Originally Posted by ~primetime~
I don't really disagree with what you are saying, again I am just telling you what I remember and trying to show evidience of it...

I think we are both kind of saying the same thing now anyway...

"he was great early on, and then the injury issues changed people's views on him, maybe even made them forget that he was great, overrated, ect..."



also, I am sure that there were alot of people, including Charles himself, that did picture him as a "Deionesque" type 2-way player that was a bad ass punt returner...but when you don't have any highlights to show people on SportsCenter, it got seen as a big let down to some people...

when Newman came to Dallas he wanted to be a 2-way player but Parcells wouldn't allow it...it isn't that unncommon I don't think...


and yeah I agree that this come back of his is amazing...he is the only player on that 2005 Sporting News list that is relevant today...

Right... I think the point that you were missing, though, is that Woodson was a veteran when he began to be talked about as 'overrated,' while a guy like Roy Williams has been considered overrated since he came into the league.

Like I said... the injuries caused Woodson to have a couple of off years, but I'm still not sure that he deserved the 'overrated' tag, because pretty much everyone knew that his performance had dropped off and it isn't like he was earning Pro Bowl nods during those down years.

He went to the Pro Bowl from 1998-01 and deserved all four of those. Then, he didn't make another Pro Bowl team until last year. Personally, I thought that he should have made it in '07, as well.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:50 PM   #55
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Default Re: MNF: Ravens at Packers

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Right... I think the point that you were missing, though, is that Woodson was a veteran when he began to be talked about as 'overrated,' while a guy like Roy Williams has been considered overrated since he came into the league.

Like I said... the injuries caused Woodson to have a couple of off years, but I'm still not sure that he deserved the 'overrated' tag, because pretty much everyone knew that his performance had dropped off and it isn't like he was earning Pro Bowl nods during those down years.

He went to the Pro Bowl from 1998-01 and deserved all four of those. Then, he didn't make another Pro Bowl team until last year. Personally, I thought that he should have made it in '07, as well.
I don't think that is true at all...

Roy went to 5 straight probowls (2003-2007) and it wasn't until Darren Woodson left that people started to see that he was bad in coverage...Darren Woodson gave him the ability to run up and knock heads off...

I would say it was around 2005-2006 when everyone started to label him as overrated...his first few years he was generally seen as a complete defensive monster...

2007 he only got in the probowl cuz Sean Taylor died, and then that really made some people upset, only he was actually more deserving than anyone else...

it might have been a little sooner than Charles, but I always viewed what they went through as similiar, and can even remember the two of them being compared to each other in that way...

if you go on a Raider's board and ask them about how Woodson was viewed after his first 3-4 years I bet some of them will back me up on this...
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