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Old 10-31-2006, 11:44 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
I'm going to start calling people who say this kind of thing liars.

Jordan came back THREE YEARS AGO at 40 and at one point was putting up numbers only two other players in the league were.............Kobe and TMac. Further he had knee surgery that year as well. Still dropped 50,40 several times, etc. etc.
Thank You!!!

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If there was such great competition now (bullshyt) and all of that, there is NO WAY a 40 year old man, on a bum knee, two years removed from NBA competiton would be able to put up the numbers he did. NO WAY.
Yes there could, cause he's the GOAT...

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So it is no stretch to assume that a prime Jordan would have fared just as well or BETTER (I say better given these new perimiter rules).
Well, let's do the math...

If 39/40 year old Jordan gave players today fits...

When 'comeback' Jordan, minus the athleticism, dominated Kobe and everyone else...

There is no way anyone in the League could see a 1985 - 1993 Michael Jordan. No way, no how...

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Lastly, NO perimeter player in the league currently has ever been through anything like the Bad Boy Pistons or early 90s Knicks teams. Hell, even some of those Miami teams were brutal defensively.
Yup. It's easy to score with out a players hand on your hip, and ability to shift you with his upper body. THAT's DEFENSE. THAT's a CHALLENGE. Jordan put up his numbers against defenses like that. And did so, in a more effecient manner, than Kobe does now. Imagine if Jordan had these pansy rules to work with on the permiter... dude could average 40 ppg.

Last edited by Money 23 : 10-31-2006 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:48 AM   #167
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How come that team got markedly better the minute Jordan left?
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:49 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
Thank You!!!


Yes there could, cause he's the GOAT...


Well, let's do the math...

If 39/40 year old Jordan gave players today fits...

When 'comeback' Jordan, minus the athleticism, dominated Kobe and everyone else...

There is no way anyone in the League could see a 1985 - 1993 Michael Jordan. No way, no how...


Yup. It's easy to score with out a players hand on your hip, and ability to shift you with his upper body. THAT's DEFENSE. THAT's a CHALLENGE. Jordan put up his numbers against defenses like that. And did so, in a more effecient manner, than Kobe does now. Imagine if Jordan had these pansy rules to work with on the permiter... dude could average 40 ppg.

and you're conveninetly ignoring the fact the guys guarding him on the pistons then were considerably shorter and less athletic than the ones now. Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:50 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Younggrease
Dallas is too soft to play physical. And thanks for admitting that Dirk is soft. HE gets rattled by physical play.


I don't understand the point your making here. If you're trying to suggest that Dirk doesn't have a "physical game", you are 100% correct, but who doesn't know that. Saying he's soft, why, because he doesn't bang downlow with PF's. That's not his game. What is your point? The point is, the NBA hasn't allowed physical play for years, why do you think finesse players like Kobe, T-Mac, Dirk, Wade now dominate the game. However, SUDDENLY in the NBA FINALS(of all places), they start to allow physical play against Dirk, after not allowing it all year and all postseason? ADDITIONALLY, THEY ALLOW NO PHYSICALITY ON WADE. So tell me, what is your point? That Dirk gets rattled by physical play? Who doesn't? If they allowed the same physical play that they allowed on Nowitzki, on Wade, it's a completely different series. He doesn't go to the FT line 16 times a game, the Heat aren't champions.
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:53 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
How come that team got markedly better the minute Jordan left?

Actually one of the years Jordan was there the Wiz went on an 11 game winning streak and were well on their way to the playoffs until Rip went down for an extended period of time with an injury, all but ruining their chances. Further, Jordan had knee surgery which caused him to miss time and bothered him for his tenure there. There was a time when he was one of the frontrunners for MVP.

But this isn't about how good the team was and all of that. This is about the FACT that a 40 year old Jordan on a bum knee was putting up numbers on par with today's top perimeter players.

Something that should have been impossible according to joewaits argument that the competition today is soooooooo much better. That argument is pure garbage and holds zero weight when you examine all of the evidence.

Now, I answered your question. Why don't you try refuting my points if you don't agree?
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:53 AM   #171
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Yeah, but Dumars was still a good defender. And the physicality of it all, more than makes up for less athleticism. Hell, that does more damage than contested shots due to athleticism. Jordan faced Clyde Drexler, Gerald Wilkins, etc. all very athletic players, and he torched them as well. What's your point? He torched Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, etc. back in 2001 - 2003. Why wouldn't he be able to completely destroy them with prime athletic ability?
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:56 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMavericks21
I don't understand the point your making here. If you're trying to suggest that Dirk doesn't have a "physical game", you are 100% correct, but who doesn't know that. Saying he's soft, why, because he doesn't bang downlow with PF's. That's not his game. What is your point? The point is, the NBA hasn't allowed physical play for years, why do you think finesse players like Kobe, T-Mac, Dirk, Wade now dominate the game. However, SUDDENLY in the NBA FINALS(of all places), they start to allow physical play against Dirk, after not allowing it all year and all postseason? ADDITIONALLY, THEY ALLOW NO PHYSICALITY ON WADE. So tell me, what is your point? That Dirk gets rattled by physical play? Who doesn't? If they allowed the same physical play that they allowed on Nowitzki, on Wade, it's a completely different series. He doesn't go to the FT line 16 times a game, the Heat aren't champions.

Kobe doesnt get rattled by physical play and the refs let RAja get physical with him. You guys didnt foul Wade hard one time, that the MAvs fault. They never even tried to play phyical. You guys would just let him waltz in for a layup. They should have gave him some hard fouls especially Dirk but he didnt because he is soft.

If the Mavs werent soft than the HEat arent champions. The Heat got lucky in the sense that they played the Mavs. BEcause the Spurs or Suns would have beat them.
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:57 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Kobe doesnt get rattled by physical play and the refs let RAja get physical with him. You guys didnt foul Wade hard one time, that the MAvs fault. They never even tried to play phyical. You guys would just let him waltz in for a layup. They should have gave him some hard fouls especially Dirk but he didnt because he is soft.

If the Mavs werent soft than the HEat arent champions. The Heat got lucky in the sense that they played the Mavs. BEcause the Spurs or Suns would have beat them.

Stackhouse got sent packing for a game for a 'hard' foul, what series were you watching?
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Old 10-31-2006, 11:58 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by joewait
and you're conveninetly ignoring the fact the guys guarding him on the pistons then were considerably shorter and less athletic than the ones now. Dumars was 6'3'. thats the same height as Billups. Good job

the Pistons were more than just one player it was a SYSTEM. They came up with Jordan Rules where the WHOLE TEAM was supposed to focus on Michael FIRST, then the rest of the Bulls. But even aside from that Dumars was a hell of a defender. It's not always height. How do you think Bowen has been able to disturb players taller than him? Or Rodman was able to agitate Shaq from time time?

Further their frontline was probably the most intimidating ever. Those 90s Knicks teams were close as well.

Jordan still got his on all of those teams, and no perimieter player in the league today has gone up against anything like that.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:00 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Younggrease
Kobe doesnt get rattled by physical play and the refs let RAja get physical with him. You guys didnt foul Wade hard one time, that the MAvs fault. They never even tried to play phyical. You guys would just let him waltz in for a layup. They should have gave him some hard fouls especially Dirk but he didnt because he is soft.

If the Mavs werent soft than the HEat arent champions. The Heat got lucky in the sense that they played the Mavs. BEcause the Spurs or Suns would have beat them.

Oh well. The result is Finals MVP and a 35ppg series for Wade and only the bitter will try to take away from that. Besides, I thought Shaq would NEVER win another title without Bryant??? :confused:
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:01 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
Stackhouse got sent packing for a game for a 'hard' foul, what series were you watching?


He fouled Shaq, why not wade Wade some tough fouls. One hard foul could have changed the series. I was saying it all series long. I knew they were going to give Wade bs fouls, so I would make sure I got my moneys worth on my fouls. He would have hit the deck mad hard every time he went to the basket.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:02 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Oh well. The result is Finals MVP and a 35ppg series for Wade and only the bitter will try to take away from that. Besides, I thought Shaq would NEVER win another title without Bryant??? :confused:

why are you bringing that argument into this thread...Im not taking anything away from Wade
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:04 PM   #178
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Wade did his thing... took over, dominated, and got his CHIP...

What does that have to do with Kobe Bryant? Kobe is just as good (probably better) than Dwyane Wade.
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:10 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
the Pistons were more than just one player it was a SYSTEM. They came up with Jordan Rules where the WHOLE TEAM was supposed to focus on Michael FIRST, then the rest of the Bulls. But even aside from that Dumars was a hell of a defender. It's not always height. How do you think Bowen has been able to disturb players taller than him? Or Rodman was able to agitate Shaq from time time?

Further their frontline was probably the most intimidating ever. Those 90s Knicks teams were close as well.

Jordan still got his on all of those teams, and no perimieter player in the league today has gone up against anything like that.

You really don't follow. Ok, well we know back then there were fewer teams and no free agency and physical play was allowed. Are you somehow trying to tell me the Pistons of 03-04, if allowed to play with the brute physicality of the 80s teams could, wouldn't be able to do what the bad boys did to jordan? just look at the guys size, height, athletcism. I guarantee you they could have done that. Do you think Kevin garnett or any of the other big guys now with absurdly long reaches couldn't have done what they did in the 80s? Power forwards back then were like 6'8''. Jesus Christ. I don't see how Ewing would guard any power forward now, they'd all run circles around him. All the guys now have the skill set to succeed in the 80s if the rules changed. Difference is you cannot say that about the guys then, if they were to play now. And thats a fact
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Old 10-31-2006, 12:13 PM   #180
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I'm sorry but how exactly is Wade talking trash?

Dirk says it was Dallas' poor defense and not Wade's ability that won the series for the Heat. What exactly is Wade supposed to say?!?

"Oh, didn't realize they were having so many defensive breakdowns. That cheapens what I did so here's the trophy back?"

To me its simply Wade stepping on their sour grapes.
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