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Old 01-27-2010, 12:48 PM   #31
ChuckOakley
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

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Originally Posted by HylianNightmare
NBA.com agrees with you
Interesting...

http://www.nba.com/2010/allstar/2010...ves/index.html

Quote:
CENTER
David Lee, New York (17-24)
19.1 PPG, 11.2 RPG, 3.4 APG
Always known as a great rebounder, Lee has developed his offensive game quite a bit over the last two years under Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni. He's become one of the best pick-and-roll big men in the league and has expanded his shooting range to where he can knock down a 15-footer with consistency. He's averaging career highs in points and assists, is again among the league leaders in double-doubles, and ranks third in the East (behind just James and Bosh) in efficiency. Defense is still an issue and the Knicks have the same record as they did at this point last season, but they're within reach of a playoff spot.

Three Hardest Snubs:

Tragic Shaft: Al Horford (ATL)
Maybe Next Year: Joakim Noah (CHI)
Team Record Hurt Him: Brook Lopez (NJN)
The Next Three Out: Andrew Bogut (MIL), Kendrick Perkins (BOS), Brendan Haywood (WAS)
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

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Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
Ok, but what is a C?

If out of the 30 starting Centers in the NBA, only 15 fit your defintion of what a Center should be, does that mean the other 15 starting Cs should not be eligbile?
They should be eligible for whatever they are. If the Eastern Conference has 4 centers and 17 power fowards on the ballot, so be it. If you're only the 7th best PF in your conference, but you get traded to a team that has no center, it doesn't mean you jump up to the top of the all-star list.

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How subjective would that be?
They would be basing it on height, weight, blocked shots, percentage of points scored in the paint?
If it's too subjective to decide who is a center and who is a power forward, then that's an indication that those terms are meaningless and they should stop using them. And that's a legit option. In europe (at least as far as I heard), they just call them bigs and wings. Maybe the NBA should too.


Quote:
Bigs and wings make some more sense, but even that's gets dicey. Is their a height requirement? Where does a player like Josh Smith fit? Boris Diaw? Thad Young? Jeff Green? etc.
Maybe there could be one special voting spot for outcast tweeners?

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Would you be happy with the fans pick 5 players (any position) and then the coaches pick 7 (any position)? That seems to be "fair" at least.
If the fans got to vote for any old 5 players, then big men would seldom start at all. Guards are always more popular.

Really though, I don't understand why "center" is a special category in the all-star game, but "point guard" is not. Point guard is the most clearly definable position of them all, and it gets lumped in with "guards"? A position that itself ends up including a bunch of 2/3 combos like Pierce and Ginobili who often play SF?

So I guess long story short, I'd like them to keep the fan vote, but make it PG/Wing/Wing/Big/Big, and then allow teams to put Josh Smith and Boris Diaw wherever they want. But if Steve Nash and Chris Paul ever play together, they still have to both go in the PG category.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:52 PM   #33
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

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Originally Posted by HylianNightmare
NBA.com agrees with you
This is just the opinion of one particualr writer named John Schuhmann, who apparently isn't much of a basketball scout, since he ranked Noah and Lopez above Bogut.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:55 PM   #34
Seņor Cedric
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

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Originally Posted by AJ2k8
Wow, only 2 players in the nba average 15,10,2

I agree throw him in, though i can see David Lee or Lopez being put in instead

I think Duncan is at those averages, too.

Sorry, just checked, 1.9 bpg for Duncan.

MArc Gasol is at: 14.9ppg, 9.6rpg and 1.6bpg. I'm not a fan of putting people in a special club because they average an extra .4 rpg or whatever.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

So... Even if a guy plays center for his team ALL the time, you think that you can say he's not a center for a bunch of subjective reasons? Because he doesn't meet your personal interpretation of what a center should be?

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Old 01-27-2010, 02:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

Bogut is a beast and should have been an All Star
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

I think Bogut can definitely be a beast (22.6 PPG and 46/63 FG in the last 5 games - wow), and alot of people slept on him in fantasy basketball this year. I personally don't think David Lee is a traditional center, but that's where labels like PF/C come into play for me. He's a PF playing C. In reality, there's not that many players that play strictly one position (even Dwight Howard started out playing PF next to Battie and Cato, right?). On the Spurs, every big nowadays plays PF and C through out the game, hence DeJuan Blair gaining C eligibility. In Houston they have Chuck Hayes as their starting C, and dude is 6'6 ! It's a fine line between who's a natural center, and who's being asked to play center IMO. The most prototypical center right now (who's not named Shaq), to me, is some one like Kendrick Perkins.
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:56 PM   #38
adamcz
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

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Originally Posted by 33teeth
So... Even if a guy plays center for his team ALL the time, you think that you can say he's not a center for a bunch of subjective reasons? Because he doesn't meet your personal interpretation of what a center should be?

This isn't my subjectivity! I thought everybody alive had some common opinions on what a center is or isn't. If a 6'9" guy who plays zero defense is a center, then there's obviously no definition at all for the position. Maybe I'm a center?

But let's pretend David Lee is a center, and judge him at how well he plays the position compared to Bogut.

Offense: Modest edge to David Lee. He scores 3 extra points per game, while using up 1 extra FGA and .5 extra FTA. Lee also dishes out an extra assist per game. Bogut spaces the floor in a more traditional way, by staying home in the post, so that might appeal to some of them old fashioned teams.

Rebounding: Exactly equal. Andrew Bogut grabs 17.6% of available rebounds. David Lee grabs 17.6% of available rebounds. And I actually think Bogut would come out ahead of they swapped teams, since Lee hardly loses any rebounds to Gallinari like Bogut does to Ilyasova.

Defense: Enormous advantage to Bogut. Bogut blocks 6x as many shots as Lee, and he has the Bucks at 9th overall in defensive efficiency, while the Knicks are 20th. Bogut is a great defender, which until this thread was created, used to be the most important role of a center. Now apparently there's no such thing as a position, so centers can do anything they want to do, and be anything they want to be.
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

I'll never recognize David Lee as a Center. He's playing it by default. Like Elton Brand being moved to play Center. That said its hard to pass up what David Lee has done this season. Regardless of position he belongs on the AS team.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:16 PM   #40
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...gut/index.html

that video is a pretty mad play. article is about bogut and the all-star game.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:27 PM   #41
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

Who else is an option for center in the east? I can't think of anyone better right now. Brook Lopez is playing about the same, but he's on a 3 win team.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:31 PM   #42
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Default Re: Bogut should make the all-star team

I for one believe Bogut is an All-Star ... but he won't make it for political reasons and he never gets the fan vote ....

Who cares , the All-Star team has little value any more because the voting is bullshlt.

he is the core of the Bucks , whether Kohl owns the team or if he sells this year or next.
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