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Old 02-16-2010, 05:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

I don't know if Jereme's handle is "all that", but I'm guessing that wasn't directed at me. And I'm not talking about being able to play 3 or 4 positions in high school. I'm 6'5", blessed with almost zero athletic ability, and got recruited by zero D1 colleges out of high school, yet I spent time at all 5 positions during my high school career. You don't have to be a HS blue chipper to be able to play 4 positions at that level. But I'm guessing Jereme has the potential to play 4 positions in college (which is my point), and that makes him more rare than even a player like Blackshear who has the ability to play 2 maybe 3 positions.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by KG215
I don't know if Jereme's handle is "all that", but I'm guessing that wasn't directed at me. And I'm not talking about being able to play 3 or 4 positions in high school. I'm 6'5", blessed with almost zero athletic ability, and got recruited by zero D1 colleges out of high school, yet I spent time at all 5 positions during my high school career. You don't have to be a HS blue chipper to be able to play 4 positions at that level. But I'm guessing Jereme has the potential to play 4 positions in college (which is my point), and that makes him more rare than even a player like Blackshear who has the ability to play 2 maybe 3 positions.

Exactly my point. Jereme playing 4 positions in HS that isn't even a big deal so why is it coming up?

And his handle is nowhere near SG status right now and he's not big enough to play the 5 in the Big Ten.

He is a SF/PF.

The fact that Reme MIGHT be able to play one or two more positions than Blackshear doesn't mean much in the overall scheme of things.

Plus Blackshear is a year younger and has more room to grow.....his jumpshot is already better than Reme's
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

There aren't too many 6'8" kids out there with his handle that I'm aware of. Bruce Weber has already talked about potentially using Richmond at point guard, a la Evan Turner.

And if you're talking about Blackshear playing power forward, that's a bit of a lark, no? Maybe in a gimmicky four-guard offense, much like Randy Foye was technically the "power forward" at Villanova a few years ago. Blackshear's a wing. Richmond can potentially fill three different roles offensively: playmaker/facilitator, perimeter scorer, post scorer. I don't doubt that Blackshear is as dominant offensively as everyone says he's become, but I also have heard from people whose opinions I respect that he's allowed to more or less take whatever shots he wants and that it somewhat mitigates his impressive numbers and the perception of his ability.

You say I've said a lot without saying much, and the reason is this: from what I know about Richmond and what I think I know about Blackshear, I don't know who's better. And I think anyone who's definitively saying Blackshear's better, with such caveats that "it's not even close," are being foolish. And vice versa. They're both 5-star talents, ranked among the 10-20 best players in their class.

I will say this about Richmond: he's not a sure thing. He has a temperment that I think is a big part of what drives him, but it's also somewhat of a ticking time bomb that's already cost him a few times in high school. That puts him on a long list of high school stars who had an attitude and many of them turned out great. Hopefully that's the case.

I'll say this, too: if Richmond didn't win Mr. Basketball last year, when he was clearly the state's best player as a junior, then nor should Blackshear win it this year even if he's the best player. If the voters have made the decision that they're not going to give it to a junior, then don't start now. It should be Richmond's award (and if not him, Rayvonte Rice).
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

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Originally Posted by Go Getter
Jereme playing 4 positions in HS that isn't even a big deal so why is it coming up?
Why? Because you're creating a false premise to begin with. Not that many high school prospects project to potentially- and legitimately- be able to play up to four positions at the college level. You'd have to go back to Andre Igoudalia to find the last Illinois high school prospect with that potential.

Quote:
And his handle is nowhere near SG status right now and he's not big enough to play the 5 in the Big Ten.
Another false premise. I've seen him play enough times to know this isn't true. His handle is well above-average for a kid his height or even for a small forward prospect in general. I'm not going to play the "no, it isn't!" "Yes, it is!" game back and forth on this particular topic because I've seen him play enough times to know how well he can handle the ball.

I'd even say it's better than Turner's was at the same stage. (Then again, Richmond is better across-the-board than Evan Turner was as a high school senior. Which isn't to say he's going to eventually be the best player in college basketball like Turner is, though I certainly hope so.)
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Richmond is soft. Period. And he does not come to play every night. The playground is littered with players who can play but never developed the attitude of being a winner.... the attitude of bringing their "A game" every night. Richmond reminds me of those guys.

Probably the single greatest thing that made Michael Jordan the greatest off all-time was his attitude. The best players in the game bring their best every night. Richmond does not.

And the best players in the game are competitive as hell. Micheal Jordan = Killer. Kobe Bryant = Killer. Bill Russell = Killer. Larry Bird = Killer. Magic Johnson = Killer. And notice something about those guys = they are all Champions. The best players in the game will kill you and then stomp your heart out afterwards. That is what it takes to be great.... and that is what it takes to make a team great. Richmond is Pokemon doll by comparison.

And that killer instinct cannot be developed. Either you have it or you don't. MJ had it as a kid. And the rest of those greats had it as kids. Richmond does NOT have this.... and he likely never will.

Richmond will be a decent player. But he is not a program changing player. He lacks the most critical thing that will hold him back from being great - heart! .... He will have a decent career but he will NEVER lead Illinois to a championship. Up and down players like Richmond never do. Soft players like Richmond never do.

........

Last edited by TheTruth11 : 02-16-2010 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

^^ Please give me back my time for reading that waste of a post.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Jereme is gonna be a beast for the Illini but I have a feeling that Blackshear will end up being a better player.
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:09 AM   #23
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth11
Richmond is soft. Period. And he does not come to play every night. The playground is littered with players who can play but never developed the attitude of being a winner.... the attitude of bringing their "A game" every night. Richmond reminds me of those guys.

Probably the single greatest thing that made Michael Jordan the greatest off all-time was his attitude. The best players in the game bring their best every night. Richmond does not.

And the best players in the game are competitive as hell. Micheal Jordan = Killer. Kobe Bryant = Killer. Bill Russell = Killer. Larry Bird = Killer. Magic Johnson = Killer. And notice something about those guys = they are all Champions. The best players in the game will kill you and then stomp your heart out afterwards. That is what it takes to be great.... and that is what it takes to make a team great. Richmond is Pokemon doll by comparison.

And that killer instinct cannot be developed. Either you have it or you don't. MJ had it as a kid. And the rest of those greats had it as kids. Richmond does NOT have this.... and he likely never will.

Richmond will be a decent player. But he is not a program changing player. He lacks the most critical thing that will hold him back from being great - heart! .... He will have a decent career but he will NEVER lead Illinois to a championship. Up and down players like Richmond never do. Soft players like Richmond never do.

........
So you're comparing him to some of the greatest players in the history of sports, and when he doesn't display the same elite characteristics had, it means he's soft?

Do you realize how ridiculous that is? I'm not asking Jereme Richmond to be one of the 10 best basketball players of all time. I'm asking him to be a really good player at Illinois and give himself a chance at an NBA future. Until any kid displays that they're an elite college player, you can't ask for anything more from anyone.

Are you not aware of how absurd this premise is? Either you have the same will and force of personality as the greatest players who ever lived, or you're soft? There's an enormous spectrum of middle ground between those two extremes. So Richmond doesn't have the same undeniable will as Michael Jordan, the greatest team sport athlete possibly in the history of the world? Somehow I'll be able to sleep tonight despite that knowledge. That only gives him something in common with everyone else who's ever played basketball besides, like, maybe five or six guys. Ever. In history.

What part of this sounded reasonable or fair as you were thinking it up? To hold Jereme Richmond up to the standards of the greatest players in the history of the sport, and when he fell short, declare him to be soft? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't think this through at all and that you'd like to take that post back. Go ahead. I'm willing to be nice and give you a mulligan on it, if you'd like it.

By your line of reasoning, 99.99 percent of players in the history of the NBA are soft.

Some of the best players in the NBA today don't have that kind of mentality. Hell, Tim Duncan's the best power forward at all time and some people say he lacked that killer mentality. Personally I disagree, but the fact that we can even have that discussion shows how absurd your line of reasoning is.

And Illinois has never won a national title, so you're saying "he will NEVER lead Illinois to a championship" as if that's a further example of the half-baked point you're trying to prove? Let's say he plays here two years and by his sophomore year, he's a third-team All-American and leads Illinois to a Big Ten title and a Final Four. All completely plausible and realistic things. You know what my reaction would be to that? I'D BE F-CKING THRILLED! No one's asking him to be a program-changing player. The best player on the team? Probably not next year, I don't see him vaulting ahead of McCamey as a freshman, but eventually, yeah, probably the best player on the team as a sophomore and, if he sticks around that long, a junior.

But he'll be joining a very talented team next year and won't be asked to be a "program-changer." Just the final piece in the puzzle in getting Illinois back to national prominence.

As an aside, I've never bought the "either you have it or you don't" argument. Human beings aren't wild animals who need their instincts to survive. While there is certainly some inherent traits we all have individually it's absurd to say we can't improve on them.

(Also, you do realize that three of your five examples have had NBA Finals in which they were terrible, right? Just wanted to throw that out there as an aside. Not that your idiotic post didn't do enough to discredit itself. It's just that I don't mind running up the score.)

Last edited by TheGame414 : 02-17-2010 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:16 AM   #24
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Getter
Jereme is gonna be a beast for the Illini but I have a feeling that Blackshear will end up being a better player.
Fair enough. Like I've been saying, I can't wait to see Blackshear play again.
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Old 02-17-2010, 12:33 AM   #25
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth11
Richmond is soft. Period. And he does not come to play every night. The playground is littered with players who can play but never developed the attitude of being a winner.... the attitude of bringing their "A game" every night. Richmond reminds me of those guys.

Probably the single greatest thing that made Michael Jordan the greatest off all-time was his attitude. The best players in the game bring their best every night. Richmond does not.

And the best players in the game are competitive as hell. Micheal Jordan = Killer. Kobe Bryant = Killer. Bill Russell = Killer. Larry Bird = Killer. Magic Johnson = Killer. And notice something about those guys = they are all Champions. The best players in the game will kill you and then stomp your heart out afterwards. That is what it takes to be great.... and that is what it takes to make a team great. Richmond is Pokemon doll by comparison.

And that killer instinct cannot be developed. Either you have it or you don't. MJ had it as a kid. And the rest of those greats had it as kids. Richmond does NOT have this.... and he likely never will.

Richmond will be a decent player. But he is not a program changing player. He lacks the most critical thing that will hold him back from being great - heart! .... He will have a decent career but he will NEVER lead Illinois to a championship. Up and down players like Richmond never do. Soft players like Richmond never do.

........

I don't even have to see Richmond play now to know he'll never be a good player. This post has convinced me. I won't even have to pay attention to Richmond next year when he's playing for Illinois. I'll just remember this post and know he's soft and not any good.

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Old 02-17-2010, 03:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
Fair enough. Like I've been saying, I can't wait to see Blackshear play again.


I'm telling you man my cousin coaches at Julian and we started an AAU team so he's heavy on the summer circuit in Chicago.

When asking around about players during the holidays Blackshear was on everyone's lips [I understand the bias we as Chicagoans have tho]. I caught a few tapes and parts of a game on public access and he has the goods.

Personally, I like players that have clear cut positions as opposed to ones that have several....my reasoning is that the more versatile players rarely ever master one position.

Just my tastes/thoughts though....

I don't want my argument for Blackshear's game to diminish the player that Reme is....because Reme is a beast also. If it turns out that he has the speed and IQ and handle to be a guard then he's really going to be a beast.

Last edited by Go Getter : 02-17-2010 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

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Old 10-20-2010, 08:48 AM   #28
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

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Fair enough. Like I've been saying, I can't wait to see Blackshear play again.

Both played for T-USA teams did your opinions of Wayne and Reke change or stay the same?
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

I don't know who Reke is, but I'll tell you I couldn't care less about a Jereme Richmond/Wayne Blackshear comparison right now. One of them is a likely starter on my favorite college basketball team and the other is a high school senior who's not going to Illinois, so I don't really care about him.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: The next big player out of Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
I don't know who Reke is, but I'll tell you I couldn't care less about a Jereme Richmond/Wayne Blackshear comparison right now. One of them is a likely starter on my favorite college basketball team and the other is a high school senior who's not going to Illinois, so I don't really care about him.
I meant Reme.
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