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Old 11-04-2006, 03:34 AM   #16
Wuxia
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IMO, Johan Santana is the AL MVP and its not even close. He was by far the best pitcher in the league this season.

The NL MVP is a no brainer, Puljols takes it once again.
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Old 11-04-2006, 05:56 AM   #17
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Pujols and Jeter...there is no debate. Ortiz wasnt even the best DH in the AL.
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Old 11-04-2006, 12:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Wuxia
IMO, Johan Santana is the AL MVP and its not even close. He was by far the best pitcher in the league this season.

The NL MVP is a no brainer, Puljols takes it once again.

Johan is the only one I'd consider alongside Jeter (with Mauer 3rd). It's just hard comparing the contributions of a great position player to a great starter, no idea how to really decide between the two. But in all likelyhood, some writer will leave Johan off the ballot completely (as is usually the case for pitchers in MVP voting) and that will cost him any shot he has at it.
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Old 11-04-2006, 12:53 PM   #19
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Pujols and Jeter...there is no debate.

Pujols over Howard? There is a debate in that situation. I'd give it to Howard because he absoulutly did everything he could to put the Phillies in the playoffs.

Came up short, but this is an individual award & as far as I'm concenred Howard did more for his team than Pujols did for his.



In other news, Liriano is having TJ surgery. That's too bad.
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Old 11-04-2006, 01:10 PM   #20
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Albert Poo-Holes... nuff said.
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Old 11-04-2006, 01:46 PM   #21
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Pujols should win the AL and NL MVPs, he is that much better than anyone else playing right now.
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Old 11-04-2006, 01:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCDrivesAPorscheToWork
Ortiz is garbage. cannot even lead his team to a winning record when critical pieces (Varitek, Wakefield) go down.


when Sheff and Matsui went down from Abreu,Jeter single handedly kept the Yanks in the AL race.

you're a falkin moron.

and hardly qualified to say word one about baseball.

Weren't you the jackass who started a thread this summer asking what the Green Monster was? Yeah it was you, (living in North America and calling yourself a sports fan and not knowing what the Green Monster is may mean you are retarded) and now you are are offering your two cents about baseball. stfu
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Old 11-04-2006, 02:04 PM   #23
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My math may be fuzzy here, but I'm pretty sure 10 games above .500 constitutes a winning record.
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Old 11-04-2006, 02:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Pujols over Howard? There is a debate in that situation. I'd give it to Howard because he absoulutly did everything he could to put the Phillies in the playoffs.

Came up short, but this is an individual award & as far as I'm concenred Howard did more for his team than Pujols did for his.

Pujols 143gms 119R 177H 49HR 137RBI .331BA .431OBP .671Sg%
Howard 159gms 104R 182H 58HR 149RBI .313BA .425OBP .659Slg%

Albert in 16 less games trails Ryan in hits (5), HR's (9) and RBI (12). Safe to say if he played those 16 games he would lead Ryan Howard in every statistical category. Also Albert leads Ryan Howard in VORP. VORP stats. And has had a better glove than Ryan Howard. Wouldnt be surprised if he is responsible for more game winning hits/hr's than Howard this season as well.
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Old 11-04-2006, 02:20 PM   #25
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It has to go to Ryan Howard. His hitting stats were right there with Pujols's, and his HR and RBI numbers are much higher. If Pujols had played the same amount, perhaps his would be just as high, but he didn't and they aren't.

Not to mention that the Phillies actually won more games than the Cardinals.
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Old 11-04-2006, 02:35 PM   #26
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Nonetheless, it's not an open & shut case.

Ryan Howard was cash in the last two months of the season, when the Phillies were making that push. Baseball, more than any other "team" sport, is more individual. I don't hold the Phillies playoff absence against him, and I don't give an edge to Pujols just because his team made it.

Howards stats for the last two months.

Aug:

14 HR
.348 BA
41 RBI
1.214 OPS
.464 OBP

Sep:

.387 BA
9HR
20 RBI
.561 OBP
1.324 OPS


Howard was there when it mattered. He came up huge again & again.

Pujols last two months combined:

.341 BA
49 RBI
15 HR
.422 OBP
1.045 OPS


I donno man, it's just not "no debate" as far as Pujols/Howard is concerned. Aside from the BA Albert didn't play particularly well when it mattered, while Howard shined brighter than ever.


I'm just sayin there is an argument. That's all.
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Old 11-04-2006, 02:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Tubbs
It has to go to Ryan Howard. His hitting stats were right there with Pujols's, and his HR and RBI numbers are much higher. If Pujols had played the same amount, perhaps his would be just as high, but he didn't and they aren't.

Not to mention that the Phillies actually won more games than the Cardinals.

So Ryan has more HR's/RBI's therefore he should win the MVP?

Ryan Howard also had more RBI Oppurtunities as well.

Phillies won more games? Noooooo way! Now show me how the "wins" were a direct result to Ryan Howard's stats. How many wins is Ryan responsible for?


Pujols is clearly the MVP in the NL. The numbers dont lie and support him all the way. The only thing stopping some from buying it is the perception fans have of the MVP award. When they look to see who is the winner they run right to HR's & RBI's then look at team success and from there form a conclusion to who is the MVP. Ryan Howard gained attention by the media because he was smacking HR's. Pujols hit 9 fewer and the day Ryan hit 3 in 1 game Pujols did as well. You ignore the 16gms more Ryan played but the matter when you are praising the HR & RBI stat. Very weak argument.
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Old 11-04-2006, 02:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Nonetheless, it's not an open & shut case.

Ryan Howard was cash in the last two months of the season, when the Phillies were making that push. Baseball, more than any other "team" sport, is more individual. I don't hold the Phillies playoff absence against him, and I don't give an edge to Pujols just because his team made it.

Howards stats for the last two months.

Aug:

14 HR
.348 BA
41 RBI
1.214 OPS
.464 OBP

Sep:

.387 BA
9HR
20 RBI
.561 OBP
1.324 OPS


Howard was there when it mattered. He came up huge again & again.

Pujols last two months combined:

.341 BA
49 RBI
15 HR
.422 OBP
1.045 OPS


I donno man, it's just not "no debate" as far as Pujols/Howard is concerned. Aside from the BA Albert didn't play particularly well when it mattered, while Howard shined brighter than ever.


I'm just sayin there is an argument. That's all.

MLB is longer than 2 months. Ryan Howard was hot the lasdt 2 months so that wins him MVP????

do you mean Albert didnt play particulary well when it mattered? Explain in DETAIL that remark. Tell me "when it mattered" and show me how Albert didnt come to play. And what different it makes playing "when it matters" vs "when it doesnt matter". You're gonna need to break it down besides throwing out statement that sound cute to boost up Ryan Howard's end.

Howard shined brighter than ever? By hitting HR's? Are you kidding me? You want a WOW with that? Ryan Howard had 181 Strikeouts vs Pujols 50. Albert hit 49HR's and only struck out 50 times. Think about how ridiculous that ratio is and where it ranks in the games history.

Its a no debate case when fans with the warped "who should win MVP" crowd is excluded. But hey, Howard has a hot last 2 months and somehow the wins were a direct result of his hitting and no one elses. So he hit more HR's and RBI's even tho he played 16 more games and wasnt far ahead of Pujols. But thats irrelevant...he hit more, drove in more and Phillies won more than St. Ryuan wins MVP!

NOT!
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Old 11-04-2006, 03:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Howard shined brighter than ever? By hitting HR's?

Take a closer look at those stats. He upped his BA tremendously, really stepped that part of his game up. He hit HR's obviously, but he drove in runs, dominated the OBP category & OPS, two major stats.

Pujols didn't play particularly well the last two months. You know, just average. You know as well as I do that how you play late vs how you play during any other time in the year is a big difference. You play awesome for the first half but play average the last half? Voters will respect your numbers. You play above average the first half and really put up some great numbers and impact your team the last half? That gets the attention of people. Is it right? Not up to me to decide that, but it's the way it is.

I never said Pujols never came to play, rather his play wasn't that of the MVP in the late going on most nights. He wasn't playing at the level Howard was for those last two months. Agian, that brings up the whole thing about it's how you finish, not how you start. Not only did Pujols play average the last few months, his team went something like 27-36. Voters notice this kinda stuff.

Quote:
But hey, Howard has a hot last 2 months and somehow the wins were a direct result of his hitting

You're assuming I think this. Ryans great hitting was the main reason his team got on a roll, but not the only one. Obviously you need pitching, good defense, and so on.. but the one thing they couldn't deal without was probably Howards' stellar play.
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Old 11-04-2006, 03:26 PM   #30
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Pujols lead the ML in VORP. Pujols contributed more runs to his teams offense than Ryan Howard did for his. Ryan ranks 2nd in VORP. Voters logic behind how MVP is determined is ridiculous. And the fans are affected. Dodgers dont hit 4 hr's in a row, and lose a game then the Phillies make the playoffs. We hear its a lock Ryan wins the award because he got to the playoffs. A difference of one game can determine who wins mvp or not? Not in my book or others that really break down a players overall impact on thier team. But yet voters have us look at total HR's/RBI's to determine who wins. Lame. System is all bugged out.

Albert has had the better season. MVP season. His numbers in 143gms are numbers guys needs the entire season to put up. Ryan Howard is given the MVP it only goes to show how retarded the voters are.
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