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Old 02-23-2010, 12:16 PM   #16
Kurosawa0
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Does anybody actually know what the record is or are we assuming that Wilt has it?
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:17 PM   #17
Roundball_Rock
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
How the hell can Pippen and Grant pass to Paxon? What, they both grabbed the ball and passed it while holding hands? GRANT passed it to Paxon.

Watch the play. As I mentioned at the time (Chris Broussard promoted the myth), Pippen's penetration into the lane got the defense's attention, he then passed off to Grant who passed off to Paxson. Jordan was somewhere around half court.

A lot of people think 6 rings are the record. A lot of people think 5 MVP's are the record. Gee, where do you think they got these impressions from?

Quote:
Where's the evidence? Not saying you're lying but how do you know that? Its not like there's game logs from the 60s that are readily available

? It isn't easily available to us on basketballreference.com but the record exists, as ESPN researchers and statisticians surely should know. Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg in a season, right? The only way to calculate that is to have access to his totals in every game. Wilt's lowest point total in 1962 was 26.

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ESPN gets absolutely nothing from propping up Jordan today.

Really? Evidently they do, or they do it just for fun? They don't do this with any other retired legend, whether in basketball or any other sport. Look at the ESPN magazine issue out there commemorating Jordan as the GOAT. Why does that even exist? Journalism is supposed to be unbiased, no? Why print an issue asserting one retired guy who was last relevant on the court 12 years ago>everyone else? You know the answer: they knew it would sell.

Here are Wilt's game logs:

Gm #1) 48 pts
Gm #2) 57 pts
Gm #3) 53 pts
Gm #4) 55 pts
Gm #5) 43 pts
Gm #6) 28 pts <--- vs. Russell
Gm #7) 58 pts <--- begins NBA record streak of 65 consecutive 30-point games
Gm #8) 58 pts
Gm #9) 55 pts
Gm #10) 41 pts
Gm #11) 34 pts
Gm #12) 43 pts
Gm #13) 56 pts
Gm #14) 39 pts
Gm #15) 51 pts
Gm #16) 45 pts
Gm #17) 31 pts
Gm #18) 39 pts
Gm #19) 39 pts (ends November averaging 44.1 for the month on 45.8% FG)
Gm #20) 60 pts
Gm #21) 37 pts
Gm #22) 39 pts
Gm #23) 39 pts
Gm #24) 78 pts <--- sets NBA record for most points in a single game in 3OT, breaking Elgin Baylor's record of 71; begins NBA record streak of 14 consecutive 40-point games
Gm #25) 61 pts
Gm #26) 55 pts
Gm #27) 54 pts
Gm #28) 52 pts
Gm #29) 43 pts
Gm #30) 50 pts <--- begins NBA record streak of seven consecutive 50-point games
Gm #31) 57 pts
Gm #32) 55 pts
Gm #33) 59 pts
Gm #34) 51 pts
Gm #35) 53 pts
Gm #36) 60 pts
Gm #37) 41 pts (ends December averaging 52.4 for the month on 50.3% FG)
Gm #38) 32 pts
Gm #39) 36 pts
Gm #40) 53 pts
Gm #41) 55 pts
Gm #42) 47 pts
Gm #43) 39 pts
Gm #44) 52 pts <--- begins record-tying streak of 14 consecutive 40-point games
Gm #45) 73 pts
Gm #46) 62 pts
Gm #47) 62 pts
Gm #48) 54 pts
Gm #49) 53 pts
Gm #50) 44 pts <--- ends streak of six consecutive 50-point games, one short of own record
Gm #51) 62 pts
Gm #52) 55 pts
Gm #53) 47 pts
Gm #54) 53 pts <--- begins streak of four consecutive 50-point games (matched by Kobe Bryant in 2006-07)
Gm #55) 50 pts
Gm #56) 55 pts (ends January averaging 51.8 ppg for the month on 51.8% FG)
Gm #57) 53 pts
Gm #58) 35 pts
Gm #59) 41 pts
Gm #60) 50 pts
Gm #61) 59 pts
Gm #62) 48 pts
Gm #63) 38 pts
Gm #64) 42 pts
Gm #65) 65 pts
Gm #66) 42 pts
Gm #67) 48 pts
Gm #68) 67 pts
Gm #69) 48 pts
Gm #70) 46 pts
Gm #71) 61 pts
Gm #72) 26 pts <--- vs. Russell. Season low. 65-game 30-ppg streak snapped.
Gm #73) 67 pts <--- begins streak of five consecutive 50-point games
Gm #74) 65 pts
Gm #75) 61 pts (ends February averaging 50.6 ppg for the month on 55.4% FG)
Gm #76) 100 pts <--- breaks own NBA record for most points in a single game
Gm #77) 58 pts
Gm #78) 30 pts <--- vs. Russell. Third-lowest game of season. 5-game 50-ppg streak snapped.
Gm #79) 44 pts
Gm #80) 34 pts

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtop...83083&start=15

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When the media states, "second only to", they are creating an illusion that nobody else ever did better.

Exactly. The question is why?
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAJ=GOAT
Thats not the point.

When the media states, "second only to", they are creating an illusion that nobody else ever did better.
It's what they do, they do the same for Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAJ=GOAT
Kareem played against 37 of the best players ever. Of course he'll see some stiff and get outplayed here and there.

In contrast, Jordan only played against 14.

Now, who has the higher chance of getting outplayed?

The guy who played against 37 of the 50 best players in history,

or the guy who played against, lol, 14 in comparison?




Btw, don't discount the power of the media and how they create perception.

They specifically said, "second only to Michael Jordan", as if Wilt never, ever existed. Just because you think his records shouldn't stand, doesn't make it true.

First of all, some guy earlier already mentioned ESPN has been talking about "in the last 30 years", you, just like Roundball, Abe Lincoln and others, probably trained yourself to turn off your hearing when they say things like that so you'd feel like you have a legit gripe.

Maybe ESPN decided to compare todays stats with just the modern era, because they know that stats back then cant be taken too seriously? Because again, if those stats are to be taken seriously, then someone like Jerry Lucas, a 6'7 white guy who had multiple seasons of 19+ points and 19+ rebounds (even 21 and 21 at one point), is a better double double machine than Dwight Howard, or Hakeem, or Shaq, or KG, ever was. You think that make sense?

How do you watch today's games if you really take those crazy Wilt stats seriously? Doesn't it suck to watch a league where you think the best player isn't 60% as good as Wilt was?

The fact is, eveyrone knows Wilts stats can't be taken seriously. Everyone except the 5 of you, who really are here to hate on Jordan and all his fans than anything. Check the sh*t you guys have been posting. It's not even so much about respect to Wilt, it's just about how the media is bad and how everyone who thinks Jordan is GOAT is a mindless idiot, etc.

It's a broken record. Are you guys all old geezers who sit at the park and b*tch all day, or are you a gimmick? Maybe you're actually like, 24 and just want to take on the gimmick of an old timer?
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Does anyone have Game logs of Jabbar/Wilt head to head matchups? I'd love to see them posted so idiots can continue claiming Wilt was freakishly overrated.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:20 PM   #21
Kurosawa0
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Does anyone have Game logs of Jabbar/Wilt head to head matchups? I'd love to see them posted so idiots claiming Wilt was freakishly overrated.

It depends on how you rate Wilt. Top Ten? Sure. GOAT? You need more than two rings to be considered the greatest.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by KAJ=GOAT
Thats not the point.

When the media states, "second only to", they are creating an illusion that nobody else ever did better.
2nd in the last 30 years. If it was 3rd longest ever, with no chance of ever being number 1, then they would have had no segment.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa0
It depends on how you rate Wilt. Top Ten? Sure. GOAT? You need more than two rings to be considered the greatest.

He's top 5 on my list. While him and the entire ERA played at a ridiculous pace, he would still be relevant today -- the guy was an all time athlete.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:22 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
Watch the play. As I mentioned at the time (Chris Broussard promoted the myth), Pippen's penetration into the lane got the defense's attention, he then passed off to Grant who passed off to Paxson. Jordan was somewhere around half court.

A lot of people think 6 rings are the record. A lot of people think 5 MVP's are the record. Gee, where do you think they got these impressions from?




No doubt Pippen's penetration helped, but for you to give him credit for that pass while dismissing the notion that Jordan had something to do with it and making a HUGE FUSS about ESPN giving Jordan credit is hypocrisy. If you credit Pip for kicking to Grant, WHO THEN MADE THE ACTUAL ASSIST, then Jordan deserve credit for bringing the ball up court under pressure, no? Just admit it--Grant made the pass, not Jordan or Pippen. IT's just laughable you throw a fit over Jordan getting credit then try to do exactly what you accused ESPN of doing and crediting the play to Pippen.

You keep saying alot of people think six rings is the record? Who ar ethese alot of people? You freaking probably heard it once from an idiot on ISH and you apply it to everyone who believes Jordan is GOAT.

Please, grow up. You continue to take one or two Jordan fans who dont know much about the game and apply it to everyone. It's endless, nonstop "blah blah, these people only think Jordan is GOAT because they're gullible and fell for NIke's marketing, blah blah blah"

When guys like Magic or Chuck Daly or Marv Albert say Jordan is GOAT, it's not because they were sold by ESPN's marketing.

Last edited by EricForman : 02-23-2010 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Does anyone have Game logs of Jabbar/Wilt head to head matchups? I'd love to see them posted so idiots can continue claiming Wilt was freakishly overrated.
Yeah, I want to see these stats also.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

im curious as to what George Gervin, Rick Barry and Karreem's streaks are?
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

The NBA is above all a business. The question then goes : would Kareem or Wilt have gave the NBA the popularity it has today?

No knock on those clear-cut legends, but the NBA took a gamble and chose Jordan as there spokesperson. It clearly worked, no arguing against that right? Basketball grew in revenue, salaries and paychecks for players, television ratings, all these things grew in unprecedented amounts during that period when Jordan played.

You guys cherry-pick these instances where ESPN under-appreciates the greats, but whenever I listen to actual discussion of Wilt and Kareem, it is a given from across the board that they are among the greatest of all time players.

Right now the media is trying to give a story and flame to this storyline that is Durant's scoring spree, would it not make sense business wise to put emphasis on Jordan, a player who's sheer name brings attention and hype?

Think about it this way. Your a 15 year old boy and an up and coming NBA fan. Your a big fan of Durant, and ESPN is now doing a storyline comparing the streaks of Durant and Jordan. That would peak the interest of any basic basketball fan. Now lets say your watching, and ESPN starts a program about Durant's streak and comparing it to Wilt Chamberlain. Do you honestly think the boy would be as intrigued?
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:24 PM   #28
Kurosawa0
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
He's top 5 on my list. While him and the entire ERA played at a ridiculous pace, he would still be relevant today -- the guy was an all time athlete.

That little turn around banker would be devastating today.

My list generally looks something like:

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Larry
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

It changes though...
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:24 PM   #29
Roundball_Rock
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cangri
It's what they do, they do the same for Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc.

Examples?

Quote:
Does anyone have Game logs of Jabbar/Wilt head to head matchups? I'd love to see them posted so idiots claiming Wilt was freakishly overrated.

Jlauber may have that info. Here is what Kalb mentions in his book:

First 11 meetings: Kareem 26/16, Wilt 23/18
1972: Kareem 40 points, Wilt 14 points in the regular season. In the playoffs Kareem outscored him 34, Wilt 11

Wilt was a million years old yet still held his own prior to 1972? How overrated! Let's look at chronology.

Old Wilt was respectable against young Kareem
Old Kareem was respectable against young Hakeem
Old Hakeem was respectable against young Shaq

Yet Shaq would demolish Wilt?

Quote:
ESPN under-appreciates the greats, but whenever I listen to actual discussion of Wilt and Kareem, it is a given from across the board that they are among the greatest of all time players.

What discussion regarding GOAT?



Legit points on the incentives of hyping Jordan, though.

Last edited by Roundball_Rock : 02-23-2010 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricForman
First of all, some guy earlier already mentioned ESPN has been talking about "in the last 30 years", you, just like Roundball, Abe Lincoln and others, probably trained yourself to turn off your hearing when they say things like that so you'd feel like you have a legit gripe.

Maybe ESPN decided to compare todays stats with just the modern era, because they know that stats back then cant be taken too seriously? Because again, if those stats are to be taken seriously, then someone like Jerry Lucas, a 6'7 white guy who had multiple seasons of 19+ points and 19+ rebounds (even 21 and 21 at one point), is a better double double machine than Dwight Howard, or Hakeem, or Shaq, or KG, ever was. You think that make sense?

How do you watch today's games if you really take those crazy Wilt stats seriously? Doesn't it suck to watch a league where you think the best player isn't 60% as good as Wilt was?

The fact is, eveyrone knows Wilts stats can't be taken seriously. Everyone except the 5 of you, who really are here to hate on Jordan and all his fans than anything. Check the sh*t you guys have been posting. It's not even so much about respect to Wilt, it's just about how the media is bad and how everyone who thinks Jordan is GOAT is a mindless idiot, etc.

It's a broken record. Are you guys all old geezers who sit at the park and b*tch all day, or are you a gimmick? Maybe you're actually like, 24 and just want to take on the gimmick of an old timer?
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