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Old 02-23-2010, 01:29 PM   #31
guy
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
It isn't easily available to us on basketballreference.com but the record exists, as ESPN researchers and statisticians surely should know. Wilt averaged 50.4 ppg in a season, right? The only way to calculate that is to have access to his totals in every game. Wilt's lowest point total in 1962 was 26.

I'm sure they do. But my point in saying its not readily available is that I'm sure alot of those statisticians don't always look too hard into these things. I can't think of a specific example, but I know there have been numerous times where they've thrown out some stat and it was definitely wrong. Didn't sound like they had an agenda, just an honest mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
Really? Evidently they do, or they do it just for fun? They don't do this with any other retired legend, whether in basketball or any other sport. Look at the ESPN magazine issue out there commemorating Jordan as the GOAT. Why does that even exist? Journalism is supposed to be unbiased, no? Why print an issue asserting one retired guy who was last relevant on the court 12 years ago>everyone else? You know the answer: they knew it would sell.

A magazine issue sells, and I believe that was during the days building up to his HOF ceremony so it makes sense to sell it at the time. Correct me if I'm wrong. Either way, thats completely different. Do they get absolutely anything from mentioning Jordan's name during a game saying he has some record? No. Its not like more people are going to start watching Kevin Durant play just so they can hear about Michael Jordan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
Here are Wilt's game logs:

Gm #1) 48 pts
Gm #2) 57 pts
Gm #3) 53 pts
Gm #4) 55 pts
Gm #5) 43 pts
Gm #6) 28 pts <--- vs. Russell
Gm #7) 58 pts <--- begins NBA record streak of 65 consecutive 30-point games
Gm #8) 58 pts
Gm #9) 55 pts
Gm #10) 41 pts
Gm #11) 34 pts
Gm #12) 43 pts
Gm #13) 56 pts
Gm #14) 39 pts
Gm #15) 51 pts
Gm #16) 45 pts
Gm #17) 31 pts
Gm #18) 39 pts
Gm #19) 39 pts (ends November averaging 44.1 for the month on 45.8% FG)
Gm #20) 60 pts
Gm #21) 37 pts
Gm #22) 39 pts
Gm #23) 39 pts
Gm #24) 78 pts <--- sets NBA record for most points in a single game in 3OT, breaking Elgin Baylor's record of 71; begins NBA record streak of 14 consecutive 40-point games
Gm #25) 61 pts
Gm #26) 55 pts
Gm #27) 54 pts
Gm #28) 52 pts
Gm #29) 43 pts
Gm #30) 50 pts <--- begins NBA record streak of seven consecutive 50-point games
Gm #31) 57 pts
Gm #32) 55 pts
Gm #33) 59 pts
Gm #34) 51 pts
Gm #35) 53 pts
Gm #36) 60 pts
Gm #37) 41 pts (ends December averaging 52.4 for the month on 50.3% FG)
Gm #38) 32 pts
Gm #39) 36 pts
Gm #40) 53 pts
Gm #41) 55 pts
Gm #42) 47 pts
Gm #43) 39 pts
Gm #44) 52 pts <--- begins record-tying streak of 14 consecutive 40-point games
Gm #45) 73 pts
Gm #46) 62 pts
Gm #47) 62 pts
Gm #48) 54 pts
Gm #49) 53 pts
Gm #50) 44 pts <--- ends streak of six consecutive 50-point games, one short of own record
Gm #51) 62 pts
Gm #52) 55 pts
Gm #53) 47 pts
Gm #54) 53 pts <--- begins streak of four consecutive 50-point games (matched by Kobe Bryant in 2006-07)
Gm #55) 50 pts
Gm #56) 55 pts (ends January averaging 51.8 ppg for the month on 51.8% FG)
Gm #57) 53 pts
Gm #58) 35 pts
Gm #59) 41 pts
Gm #60) 50 pts
Gm #61) 59 pts
Gm #62) 48 pts
Gm #63) 38 pts
Gm #64) 42 pts
Gm #65) 65 pts
Gm #66) 42 pts
Gm #67) 48 pts
Gm #68) 67 pts
Gm #69) 48 pts
Gm #70) 46 pts
Gm #71) 61 pts
Gm #72) 26 pts <--- vs. Russell. Season low. 65-game 30-ppg streak snapped.
Gm #73) 67 pts <--- begins streak of five consecutive 50-point games
Gm #74) 65 pts
Gm #75) 61 pts (ends February averaging 50.6 ppg for the month on 55.4% FG)
Gm #76) 100 pts <--- breaks own NBA record for most points in a single game
Gm #77) 58 pts
Gm #78) 30 pts <--- vs. Russell. Third-lowest game of season. 5-game 50-ppg streak snapped.
Gm #79) 44 pts
Gm #80) 34 pts

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtop...83083&start=15



Exactly. The question is why?

Thanks, although that person doesn't actually give a source, just a bunch of stats thrown together from his own research. I still believe it though.

Last edited by guy : 02-23-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:32 PM   #32
catch24
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
Old Wilt was respectable against young Kareem
Old Kareem was respectable against young Hakeem
Old Hakeem was respectable against young Shaq

Yet Shaq would demolish Wilt?

Exactly. And that's what is scary to me. Coming into the league, Jabbar was already getting praises from the media/fans/scouts as the best big they've ever seen, yet Wilt, the old timer, held him to 26ppg all while scoring 23 himself?
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Its not like more people are going to start watching Kevin Durant play just so they can hear about Michael Jordan.

Do Hanes, Gatorade, Nike, etc. sponsor ESPN? If so, there is a conflict of interest here. The better Jordan looks, the better his products sell. The better his products sell, the better it is for ESPN's sponsors. The better their sponsors do, the more reliable their revenue stream is.

Can anyone name one other retired player--in any other sport--who receives this type of treatment?

Regarding them sometimes mentioning "30 years", that is consistent with propaganda. They are still giving the impression that Jordan did something that no one else did, i.e. there is some sort of asterik attached to whoever did it before Jordan.

"He voted for it before he voted against it"

That was technically an accurate statement. No problem there, right?

Last edited by Roundball_Rock : 02-23-2010 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:34 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa0
That little turn around banker would be devastating today.

My list generally looks something like:

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Larry
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem

It changes though...

Great list. While I have a few different changes on mine, this is respectable.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Great list. While I have a few different changes on my list, this is respectable.

It comes down to who I'd rather have. Granted, Shaq never became what he could've, but would you rather have Jerry West or Oscar?
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
Do Hanes, Gatorade, Nike, etc. sponsor ESPN? If so, there is a conflict of interest here. The better Jordan looks, the better his products sell. The better his products sell, the better it is for ESPN's sponsors.

And his products are really going to sell much more then that cause of a few mentions of Jordan's name? As if he really needs more exposure? I'm sorry, but I highly doubt ESPN would purposely risk their credibility just to unnecessarily expose Jordan a little more. You're making it sound like Hanes, Gatorade, Nike, and ESPN all got on a conference call and discussed a conspiracy of completely disregarding all other legends of the NBA and giving Jordan credit for what they did.

Another reason its stupid is that I've seen ESPN plenty of times give Wilt credit for a record, even over Jordan.
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa0
It comes down to who I'd rather have. Granted, Shaq never became what he could've, but would you rather have Jerry West or Oscar?

Oscar for the course of 43 minutes. The last 5, give me Mr. Clutch
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:39 PM   #38
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Oscar for the course of 43 minutes. The last 5, give me Mr. Clutch

Over prime Shaq?
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:40 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Most consecutive 50 point games
7 by Wilt Chamberlain, from December 16, 1961 to December 29, 1961
Most consecutive 40 point games
14 by Wilt Chamberlain, from December 8, 1961 to December 30, 1961
14 by Wilt Chamberlain, from January 11, 1962 to February 1, 1962[6]
Most consecutive 30 point games
65 by Wilt Chamberlain, from November 4, 1961 to February 22, 1962
Most consecutive 20 point games
126 by Wilt Chamberlain, from October 19, 1961 to January 19, 1963

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_records
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricForman
First of all, some guy earlier already mentioned ESPN has been talking about "in the last 30 years", you, just like Roundball, Abe Lincoln and others, probably trained yourself to turn off your hearing when they say things like that so you'd feel like you have a legit gripe.

Maybe ESPN decided to compare todays stats with just the modern era, because they know that stats back then cant be taken too seriously? Because again, if those stats are to be taken seriously, then someone like Jerry Lucas, a 6'7 white guy who had multiple seasons of 19+ points and 19+ rebounds (even 21 and 21 at one point), is a better double double machine than Dwight Howard, or Hakeem, or Shaq, or KG, ever was. You think that make sense?

How do you watch today's games if you really take those crazy Wilt stats seriously? Doesn't it suck to watch a league where you think the best player isn't 60% as good as Wilt was?

The fact is, eveyrone knows Wilts stats can't be taken seriously. Everyone except the 5 of you, who really are here to hate on Jordan and all his fans than anything. Check the sh*t you guys have been posting. It's not even so much about respect to Wilt, it's just about how the media is bad and how everyone who thinks Jordan is GOAT is a mindless idiot, etc.

It's a broken record. Are you guys all old geezers who sit at the park and b*tch all day, or are you a gimmick? Maybe you're actually like, 24 and just want to take on the gimmick of an old timer?


First of all clown,

I saw the telecast this morning, they did not say, "in the last 30 years".

They specifically said, "second only to".
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa0
Over prime Shaq?

Oh, I thought you meant just between those two players...Shaq > both of them IMO (he's #6 on my all time list).
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:58 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
And his products are really going to sell much more then that cause of a few mentions of Jordan's name? As if he really needs more exposure? I'm sorry, but I highly doubt ESPN would purposely risk their credibility just to unnecessarily expose Jordan a little more

To a substantial extent, yes. A lot of Jordan's cache comes from the "GOAT" image. This is why I will be at the very people who today are saying the media has zero to do with his present status when the media designates another player, probably within the next 5 years, as the new GOAT. This happens like clockwork in every sport every 15-20 years, barring a freak thing like a widespread steroids scandal (which prevented Bonds' elevation to GOAT). There is too much incentive to elevate someone new to GOAT. Increased ratings, more magazine sales, more webhits, etc.

Quote:
discussed a conspiracy of completely disregarding all other legends of the NBA and giving Jordan credit for what they did.

The same thing happens in every sport. The difference in basketball is the extent to which it happened. At least in other sports there is still a GOAT discussion; in basketball the media designated Jordan the GOAT after 3 rings and 3 MVP's and that was that. Of course, Jordan had the biggest marketing campaign in the history of sports behind him so that kind of helped.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
To a substantial extent, yes. A lot of Jordan's cache comes from the "GOAT" image. This is why I will be at the very people who today are saying the media has zero to do with his present status when the media designates another player, probably within the next 5 years, as the new GOAT. This happens like clockwork in every sport every 15-20 years, barring a freak thing like a widespread steroids scandal (which prevented Bonds' elevation to GOAT). There is too much incentive to elevate someone new to GOAT. Increased ratings, more magazine sales, more webhits, etc.



The same thing happens in every sport. The difference in basketball is the extent to which it happened. At least in other sports there is still a GOAT discussion; in basketball the media designated Jordan the GOAT after 3 rings and 3 MVP's and that was that. Of course, Jordan had the biggest marketing campaign in the history of sports behind him so that kind of helped.


I have yet to find anyone on this thread who has said : "the media has not helped Jordan's GOAT case."

Jordan came into the league and peaked with the right players at the right time, place, and decade.

Let me end with this. I agree with you that the media has hyped up Jordan. I disagree though that "Alot" of his enigma has come from his GOAT image. The clutch plays, rings, domination he had in an era with many Hall of Famer Bigs is the reason why he is in the discussion for GOAT and is considered a legend. Alot of it is not attributed to the media's hype of him as the GOAT.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:22 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

We can talk about the media, but no other player has a better case than Jordan as the best of all time. Simply, what other player has had as many memorable moments as Jordan?
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:24 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Jordan hype train continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosawa0
We can talk about the media, but no other player has a better case than Jordan as the best of all time. Simply, what other player has had as many memorable moments as Jordan?

Kareem.

Don't even act like it's not close. Many believe Kareem was the GOAT and he has a legit case.
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