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Old 03-02-2010, 07:57 PM   #1
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Default Who screwed us over more?

Larry Bird?
Donnie Walsh?
Jim O'Brien?
or anyone else or was it a team effort?
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

Ron Artest and Steven Jackson.
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:11 AM   #3
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

Yeah definitely Artest, then Walsh by sticking us with Bird.
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

I was gonna say artest as well, then bird
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:24 AM   #5
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

right now, i'd say JOB. we haven't gone anywhere for the past few years. sure you can put the blame on Bird but i believe it comes down to the coach for a team's poor performance.

our franchise has been on a steadily downward spiral since the brawl and the thug years. artest, jackson and tinsley can all be mentioned BUT they are gone and we're still where we are now. artest is on the best team in the league, jackson is doing so-so and tinsley got free $$$ from us for years.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

Absolutely Bird. He needs thrown to the curb.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

What would you've done differently than Bird?
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

Fired JOB long ago. Been more vocal in the GS trade.. bringing on two career losers at the pro level, who were at the time safe choices, but still, there albatross contracts should have been enough to make anyone wince, but he just sat back and watched this team settle for mediocrity. I would have done a lot different over the summer. I wouldn't have drafted Hans, as much as I love him there were other obvious choices that he passed. Namely Ty Lawson and Darren Collison. Now this summer he has a chance to change my tone. But Bird has done nothing more than settle for mediocrity and being just average since he took helm.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

As fans I think it's easy for us to call for JOB's head. We don't know what sort of financial peril they're in that may be preventing them from letting him go. Now there's no point in firing him this late, if anything he's getting us more ping pong balls. I was fine with him being retained for this year, I think he did a decent job last season with what he was presented with. If he's back next season I think it's unforgivable and will do irrepairable damage to many psyches, and that's just the players.

I'll give you the Murphleavy trade. But Bird was still in his apprenticeship working under (with? who knows?) the legend that is Donnie Walsh. I'm not giving him a pass for it, but I think he's learned from his mistakes like that trade and Shawne Williams. We could've moved Murphy for nothing but an expiring but that doesn't do anything for the health of the franchise.

Completely agree on the Hansbrough pick. He's never going to be a starter (not on a good team anyway) and we passed on all those PGs in a PG heavy draft to take a PF and this year we still need a PG (and a better PF) in a PF heavy draft w/ few 1s of note. I'm sure a lot of you remember me being very high on Jrue Holiday, still wish we'd taken him.

The acquisitions of the offseasons didn't work. I think Watson was brought in in anticipation of moving Ford, obviously that didn't happen. I do think Watson's had a positive lockerrom effect in the absence of Foster in trying to keep the team a cohesive unit as best he can. He has a lot of coach in him. I didn't like the Luther Head signing at the time and still don't. Dahntay Jones opened the season nicely but he's reverted back to what he is, a defensive role player who looks for his own shot too much. I do think he'll be useful once we get back to the playoffs though. I think the 4th year player option contract was dumb though, at least it's a relatively insignificant amount of cash.

I just don't think Bird's "settling" for anything as much as he's being forced to wait. Short of moving Granger there aren't many moves he could've made that had a positive long term outlook, just sheer salary dumps. He had Ford/Rush for Augustin/Henderson/Mohammed (I think that was the deal) done and the Bobcats ex-owner rejected it. I dig Rush a lot, and I'm not big on either Augustin or Henderson, but 1 prospect for 2 shows what he's trying to do.

Don't read this like I'm some Larry Legend lover, I just don't think he should be fired. He's got through next year's deadline and next summer to turn this thing around in a big way to show me what he's got. I think it's only fair to let him see out his vision for the franchise. It was a long process for Walsh to get anything done here.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

All I can say is if that Charlotte trade woulda went down, you best believe I woulda been calling for his head right on the spot.

Rush will be special.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

I thought you hated Rush? Hate may be strong, disliked.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

Huh? Never.

I have a strong disdain for all of the McRoberts love though, that goes on at various Pacers' boards.

It's disturbing, really.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

I know the other boards you're talking about, and it's more of a "play the kids" thing than just wanting to see McBob get PT. He's a midrange J away from being an adequate 4th big or so and brings the stuff the frontcourt's sorely lacking, athleticism, speed, and effort. I remember looking when Hansbrough went down with the ear, and up to that point they'd played almost exactly the same amount of minutes. But everyone wants to give Hansbrough a pass for being a rookie, even though he's older by about a year and a half and has much more high level playing experience. In their very similar career minutes I remember them having very similar career totals, other than McBob having a much higher FG% and Hans obviously having many more FTAs (Josh has shot 36 FTs his entire career compared to Hans's 113).

I don't think ANYONE, maybe Josh's mom, thinks he's starter material, but he's able to be a rotational big if you give him time to develop. We forget he left Duke as a freshman. Given the dearth of frontcourt depth and seeing Danny/Dunleavy/Dahntay at the 4 I'd prefer the alternative of Josh getting time and at least letting me see some alleyoops.
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:42 AM   #14
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
I know the other boards you're talking about, and it's more of a "play the kids" thing than just wanting to see McBob get PT. He's a midrange J away from being an adequate 4th big or so and brings the stuff the frontcourt's sorely lacking, athleticism, speed, and effort. I remember looking when Hansbrough went down with the ear, and up to that point they'd played almost exactly the same amount of minutes. But everyone wants to give Hansbrough a pass for being a rookie, even though he's older by about a year and a half and has much more high level playing experience. In their very similar career minutes I remember them having very similar career totals, other than McBob having a much higher FG% and Hans obviously having many more FTAs (Josh has shot 36 FTs his entire career compared to Hans's 113).

I don't think ANYONE, maybe Josh's mom, thinks he's starter material, but he's able to be a rotational big if you give him time to develop. We forget he left Duke as a freshman. Given the dearth of frontcourt depth and seeing Danny/Dunleavy/Dahntay at the 4 I'd prefer the alternative of Josh getting time and at least letting me see some alleyoops.
yeah, mcbob has a limited arsenal of offensived moves. he's sorta our fan favorite i suppose. he gets some good dunks in but he seriously needs to work on his shot.
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:43 AM   #15
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Default Re: Who screwed us over more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
Ron Artest and Steven Jackson.

This.
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