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Old 03-16-2010, 07:51 PM   #31
fknc
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

Be honest, did you see the fall? Rose is lucky he didn't break his wrist or forearm. He jumped with force and was knocked off balance. He took the weight of the fall on his hand/wrist. He was visibly hurt when it happened. Rose is a tough dude, there fall would have taken most guys down for the season. The fact that he is trying to practice with it is astounding.

As for Deng he has been mostly healthy this season so why question his work ethic now. He played through the swelling in his knee except for one game. The thing looked huge and he still played. Both of those guys deserve credit for playing through a lot.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:18 AM   #32
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

Deng holds back a lot. I don't know his entire situation with his knees. I know some of it is covered up because he would get bad press if his real situation got out.

After reading those articles about TMac and his physical therapy NEAR CHICAGO made me wonder why the Bulls aren't tapping into specialists that are getting results like they are? I would like to see the Bulls force Deng, Noah, and Rose into a major physical therapy program to build their durability, endurance and physical performance a bit. These guys have BBall IQ and all of them have aren't quite old enough to hit their peak yet, but Deng and Noah are close to that "adult prime" and you don't want to waste any of these investments.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:51 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

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Originally Posted by Crystallas
Deng holds back a lot. I don't know his entire situation with his knees. I know some of it is covered up because he would get bad press if his real situation got out.

After reading those articles about TMac and his physical therapy NEAR CHICAGO made me wonder why the Bulls aren't tapping into specialists that are getting results like they are? I would like to see the Bulls force Deng, Noah, and Rose into a major physical therapy program to build their durability, endurance and physical performance a bit. These guys have BBall IQ and all of them have aren't quite old enough to hit their peak yet, but Deng and Noah are close to that "adult prime" and you don't want to waste any of these investments.

MarK Cuban has this great idea on maximizing on his investements. But then again he was willing to spend money on them, hiring individual trainers, even hiring an ex ref on how to properly lobby for calls.
Lakers has the best trainer in Gary Vitti and they didn't stopped from there as they hired strength specialist Chip Schaeffer to improve on their conditioning etc.
If you look at the assistants of the top teams. Boston has Tom Thibodaux, Orlando has Brandan Malone, PHil has competent aides etc etc,
then you look at who is assisting and inexperienced Vinny, Bernie Bickestaff whose past several teams have flat out underachieved, Pete Myers, no head coaching experience.. who else again? I would have undestood if this is Indiana or Toronto, but the 3rd larget city/market in the league?
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:21 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

Yes, we are definitely the Clippers of the East. Never made it past the second round, only one all star in 12 years, stupid management (Gar Pax For are terrible and make me want to strangle them and feed them to dogs). I mean seriously, it's no wonder why Chicago sports fans are so hostile. But I still wonder why they are so loyal to shitty cheap gas station Indian franchises like the Bulls. We deserve a contender and what's the best they can do? Washed up Ben Wallace? Trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus? Not drafting Brandon Roy? Drafting Eddy freakin Curry? Drafting real talent like Ron Artest and Elton Brand, then trading them for piles of crap like Tyson Chandler? When will this end, when we trade Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah 2 years from now for Jordan Farmar or some shit?
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

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Originally Posted by VishaltotheG
Yes, we are definitely the Clippers of the East. Never made it past the second round, only one all star in 12 years, stupid management (Gar Pax For are terrible and make me want to strangle them and feed them to dogs). I mean seriously, it's no wonder why Chicago sports fans are so hostile. But I still wonder why they are so loyal to shitty cheap gas station Indian franchises like the Bulls. We deserve a contender and what's the best they can do? Washed up Ben Wallace? Trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus? Not drafting Brandon Roy? Drafting Eddy freakin Curry? Drafting real talent like Ron Artest and Elton Brand, then trading them for piles of crap like Tyson Chandler? When will this end, when we trade Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah 2 years from now for Jordan Farmar or some shit?

No we're not. The Clippers never won a championship while the Bulls have 6. You can never compare the two organizations. Gar and Paxson have been planning for 2010 free agency for about three years now. This off-season will define them.
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Old 03-18-2010, 01:29 AM   #36
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

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No we're not. The Clippers never won a championship while the Bulls have 6. You can never compare the two organizations. Gar and Paxson have been planning for 2010 free agency for about three years now. This off-season will define them.

As a Bulls fan, I truly hope and pray that you are right about this coming summer. I still remember when they created so much cap space to lure Duncan to join them, when he refused, all they got was Ron Mercer.
If they fail to sign Bosh, It would really piss me off if they don't go after Boozer or Lee. I remember Miami failing to get Brand when the Clips matched their offer. They didn't stop and got Odom instead. Lamar played so well that he was included in the deal to trade for Shaq the following year.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:24 AM   #37
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

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Originally Posted by tamaraw08
As a Bulls fan, I truly hope and pray that you are right about this coming summer. I still remember when they created so much cap space to lure Duncan to join them, when he refused, all they got was Ron Mercer.
If they fail to sign Bosh, It would really piss me off if they don't go after Boozer or Lee. I remember Miami failing to get Brand when the Clips matched their offer. They didn't stop and got Odom instead. Lamar played so well that he was included in the deal to trade for Shaq the following year.
honestly, this is what i see happening. they make a half-assed effort to sign the big named guys then end up with a c+ rated player and save money similar to mercer in 2000 and wallace in 05 or 06. then start the process all over again. and keep us on the hook for another 3-4 years.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:49 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
MarK Cuban has this great idea on maximizing on his investements. But then again he was willing to spend money on them, hiring individual trainers, even hiring an ex ref on how to properly lobby for calls.
Lakers has the best trainer in Gary Vitti and they didn't stopped from there as they hired strength specialist Chip Schaeffer to improve on their conditioning etc.
If you look at the assistants of the top teams. Boston has Tom Thibodaux, Orlando has Brandan Malone, PHil has competent aides etc etc,
then you look at who is assisting and inexperienced Vinny, Bernie Bickestaff whose past several teams have flat out underachieved, Pete Myers, no head coaching experience.. who else again? I would have undestood if this is Indiana or Toronto, but the 3rd larget city/market in the league?

I agree, and this is certainly our weakest aspect. The staff is lacking in so many ways. How many of Krause's fishing buddies, became critical members of the Bulls staff? How many of our existing staff was influenced by Rhinsdorf's favoritism? So far Gar has been a LOT more level headed than I had ever imagined him to be, Pax did more growing up in Bulls management due to the "Jerry Loyalty" than we should accept, but Pax gets a pass, because he has become better than the majority of executives out there.

The question now is that we have members of this organization that have solid experience on running a team, What will it take to bring in A+ staffers to Chicago without enduring a new rebuilding cycle?

Certainly our physical development could arguably be ranked as the worst in the league after this season. Seems like a no-brainer, so what is so hard about it?
-This need could very well be recognized, but wont be addressed until the season is over. I'm a high spirited Bulls fan, but my optimism is tested here, and the FO would make a fatal mistake by not making serious changes throughout the training staff. Strength and conditioning, Big-Man, and Shooting coaches. This will not instigate a rebuilding process. Again, no-brainer.

Bernie, Pete, Randy... sorry guys, but you have had a chance to prove your coaching abilities, and the performance review falls short.
-I truly believe that the risk of bringing Vinny in, was not a bad move at all. I was a naysayer and pretty pissed off when the Bulls had opportunities to bring a proven coach to Chicago. I have said it before, and I'll say it again. VDN is not the issue. So I lobby to the fans and any Bulls organization that would ever care to "scout" internet chatter: Let Vinny hire his own assistants. The man was an assistant GM before, he has contacts and ties throughout the league. He knows the importance of an effective staff, he knows what the Bulls need out of their players. You're not going to get chemistry out of your players, unless you have chemistry with management.
I truly believe that circumstances that are out of VDN's control is the reason why he falls on his face. If you don't want to give Vinny that kind of say, then don't expect the next coach to do any better.

One thing I don't agree, or disagree on, is bringing in an "Umpire Attorney" or whatever you want to call these guys. I agree that it would help us win more, but I don't think the NBA should have such a broken referee chain to begin with, and I don't think it should be needed.
-If the Bulls were to hire an ex-ref to help: Hire someone that can audit the game tapes, then highlight bad and missed calls, appeal both sides to the NBA. EVERY TEAM SHOULD DO THIS, but some don't because they are receiving the favorable calls. Refs should be punished for poor performance, and the league needs to realize that they not only affect the outcomes of games, but instigate and demonstrate tolerance of dirty play. This is shameful and corrupt!


There is just so much this Bulls team can do and spend money on. I can understand to an extent on why they have been cheap in the past, but this off-season is the time to spend, and realize your responsibility to the players, fans, and the city, as far as putting every effort into building a championship team.

Last edited by Crystallas : 03-18-2010 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystallas
I have said it before, and I'll say it again. VDN is not the issue. So I lobby to the fans and any Bulls organization that would ever care to "scout" internet chatter: Let Vinny hire his own assistants. The man was an assistant GM before, he has contacts and ties throughout the league. He knows the importance of an effective staff, he knows what the Bulls need out of their players. You're not going to get chemistry out of your players, unless you have chemistry with management.
I truly believe that circumstances that are out of VDN's control is the reason why he falls on his face. If you don't want to give Vinny that kind of say, then don't expect the next coach to do any better.

I sometimes wonder how Vinny would do as a general manager. I think he'd be great for that job. I am with you, Vinny is not the issue with the Bulls. When he has had a roster of healthy players, this team actually overachieved.

Quote:
Refs should be punished for poor performance, and the league needs to realize that they not only affect the outcomes of games, but instigate and demonstrate tolerance of dirty play. This is shameful and corrupt!

I completely agree with this. It's amazing how the referee's aren't held accountable for obvious bad calls. There's absolutely nothing holding the refs back from calling games however they want, and the they take advantage of that.
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Old 03-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

Front runner for worst thread of the year!!!

Clippers have 0 championships, 0 Conference Final appearances 0 division titles, 0 retired jerseys, 0 Clipper statues outside their arena.

Not to mention no one in town cares about them because of the Lakers who are the champs.

WTF.......Thread must be from someone who has never been to LA.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:53 PM   #41
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

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Originally Posted by Keepin it REAL
Front runner for worst thread of the year!!!

Clippers have 0 championships, 0 Conference Final appearances 0 division titles, 0 retired jerseys, 0 Clipper statues outside their arena.

Not to mention no one in town cares about them because of the Lakers who are the champs.

WTF.......Thread must be from someone who has never been to LA.
hes comparing the bulls over the last 12 years. and theyre comparable.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

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Originally Posted by fknc
The Bulls are nothing like Donald Sterling and the Clippers. This team has tried to make decisions to build a title team. Jerry Krause made some bad moves. Trading Brand for Chandler was dumb but at the time you can see what he was trying to do. He wanted two 7 footers on the floor to dominate. Neither grew into the players they could have. Jay Williams was astoundingly talented and would have been a good player. We will never know what could have been without the motorcycle injury.

The last two seasons have had one idea in mind. Draft talented players that can help now and in the future. Coming away with Rose, Johnson, and Gibson has been great. In the offseason we are going to sign a max and another talented player because of the moves the FO has made. This team is headed in the right direction.

This team has heart and not a losing mentality. Watch a game then come back and talk. These guys are leaving everything on the floor even without their best players. Against Miaimi we started 0 players that started in any of the first 10 games of the season.

Clippers of the East my ass!
You sure got that right in paragraph one!

We know what Rose can be, if he learns how to fall on the floor without getting injured. How can people say that the two Howard fouls were not intentional?.....Both Johnson & Gibson are surprises. I never expected Gibson to perform better then Johnson has to this point.

If the healthy players had any kind of luck the past week this losing streak might not have gone this long. It does not look like the Bulls will be in the lottery this year, unless they don't win many more games.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:43 PM   #43
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undisputed
I sometimes wonder how Vinny would do as a general manager. I think he'd be great for that job. I am with you, Vinny is not the issue with the Bulls. When he has had a roster of healthy players, this team actually overachieved.



I completely agree with this. It's amazing how the referee's aren't held accountable for obvious bad calls. There's absolutely nothing holding the refs back from calling games however they want, and the they take advantage of that.


I am still on the fence with Vinny...his offense leaves a lot to be desired. I do think he can communicate with these young players and he is someone that I would say has several intangibles going for him and the team.

Isn't Tom Thibodaux available this summer? I think he would be a terrific compliment to Vinny and fit this team to a T. We have a roster of mostly young athletic hard-nosed guys that I think Tom could do wonders with. Noah, Taj, Asik, and (?) is a very good rotation of bigs to develop into a scary group around the basket. Rose is super talented and seems committed to playing on both ends of the court, JJ is looking like he might excel in that area and depending on what the brain-trust does, we might still have Kirk.

If you put someone like Thibodaux right next to Vinny with this group I think this team can shut down any offense. I think it would be like Scott Skiles Bulls team a few years ago on steroids.

Anybody else interested in this idea?
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Old 03-19-2010, 05:28 PM   #44
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

very good point about Vinny. Adding another assistant like Tom would be a big plus.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: The Clippers of the East?

This is a horrible comparison. The Bulls have been a much better franchise. They have won championships and they are among the top in attendance in the league.

The Clippers have done nothing all they really have to show is that insane upset in the playoffs a few years ago when they beat Dallas the number 1 seed.
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