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Old 04-02-2010, 12:28 AM   #31
Swaggin916
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Wow dude 5'5-5'7? That's rough. Be sure to thank mom and dad lol (I always mess with my dad thanking him for my short ass arms ) Yea you can't control how your body grows... and yea I am glad I made it to 5'11. Luckily I got a little of my mom's familiy genes (all her brothers are over 6') otherwise I could easily be your height because my dad's family is short (grandma is only 5' tell).

What is your reach tho? That is the main thing... if you have short arms you might have around a 7' reach... you'd need about a 44 inch vert to dunk if that was the case... that's a daunting task but doable (if you have seen squatdoctor you will believe it's possible). 17 inches? Man you really need to work on that... that is absolutely horrible. It seems like you have good knowledge about increasing vert... so at least you know how to get it up. It's going to take a lot of work though that is for sure.
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Old 04-02-2010, 08:05 AM   #32
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Default Re: Trainning plan

My mom's like 4'11"... and my dad is only about half an inch taller than me. I'm going with 5'7" though

And yeah, my reach was 84 inches/7 feet exact, at least when i did measured it with a tape measure. I typed that number and I was like whoa I have a 7 foot wingspan? Then I remembered it was reach, which sucks alot. And yeah, I'm trying to educate myself more on the vertical, because for some reason I can squat 1.5 times my bodyweight after about 1 month and I could always leg press alot (when I still did it), but I just can't get up there! I can only barely touch the rubber below the backboard on a good day. That has to change.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Well Vert is based on more than just squat... what is your body fat? If you are packing too much weight that's obviously going to effect it.

You want to be squatting 3 times your body weight. That's really tough to do... but actually easier for you because you are shorter (therefore won't weigh as much). A good weight for a 5'7 guy with decent-good muscle mass is about 165-170 pounds. I'm 5'11 and about 188 right now (down from 193). I want to be at about 180 but have incredible leg strength and at that weight I should be totally ripped... so you are 4 inches shorter which probably equates to 15 or 20 pounds... so yea about 165 for you (we are built the same way so might as well just use myself as an example). So aim for a 475 pound squat... squatting that much you will be jumping high... there is no way you won't if you still weigh around 165.

Leg press... get rid of it and never do it again. It's a completely useless exercise for increasing vert. Any thing you do should involve hip flexion. So... Squats, Deadlifts, Olympic Lifts, Step ups, Lunges (I don't like lunges though because they are hard on my knees but work for others)... and that's about it. You have to get hamstring curls in to keep your hammy's strong and your legs balanced... but that's the only non hip flexing exercise that you should be doing.

With a 7' reach, you have to be jumping 36" inches to just barely tap the rim... that is a helluva vert right there so don't get discouraged because you arne't getting that high. Those guys you see on youtube who are 5'7 and dunking... don't be fooled they don't have 7' reaches... Nate Robinson is 5'7 without shoes (4 inches shorter than me) but has a longer reach (only by a half inch tho at 7'7.5) and a 6'1 wingspan (3 inches more than mine). Most people that are short dunkers are in that same boat... because you can't just pull a 45 inch vert out of your ass
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:07 AM   #34
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Yeah I'm aiming to increase my weight. I'm 5'7" 135lbs but idk about my body fat... when I measured my waist it was 28". I'm not jacked but I'm defined if I flex.

So wait I'll need a 36" vert to touch the rim? I was just wondering because in my gym the rubber is at most 8 inches lower than the rim, and I can get rubber...

Also, what is the dietary rule for gaining muscle mass? Like how do you eat more calories without those calories going to fat?
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Old 04-03-2010, 06:05 PM   #35
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by carpevicis
Yeah I'm aiming to increase my weight. I'm 5'7" 135lbs but idk about my body fat... when I measured my waist it was 28". I'm not jacked but I'm defined if I flex.

So wait I'll need a 36" vert to touch the rim? I was just wondering because in my gym the rubber is at most 8 inches lower than the rim, and I can get rubber...

Also, what is the dietary rule for gaining muscle mass? Like how do you eat more calories without those calories going to fat?

Wow you are only 135? That's nothing man you must not have much fat on you... Obviously there isn't much muscle on you either tho because that's hardly any weight. You and my mom are the same height and you are only like 5 pounds more than her... and she is legitimately thin (not skinny but healthy thin) with like no muscle on her at all.

Well if you can touch that rubber part then your vert is at least 28 inches then... How did you measure your vert? You may not have measured it correctly.

Well if you are looking to bulk without gaining much fat... then you basically just eat healthy, and eat about the same you are eating now. You won't bulk up as much as you would if you were eating more calories, but over time you will gain muscle, it just takes a lot longer.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:26 PM   #36
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggin916
Wow you are only 135? That's nothing man you must not have much fat on you... Obviously there isn't much muscle on you either tho because that's hardly any weight. You and my mom are the same height and you are only like 5 pounds more than her... and she is legitimately thin (not skinny but healthy thin) with like no muscle on her at all.

Well if you can touch that rubber part then your vert is at least 28 inches then... How did you measure your vert? You may not have measured it correctly.

Well if you are looking to bulk without gaining much fat... then you basically just eat healthy, and eat about the same you are eating now. You won't bulk up as much as you would if you were eating more calories, but over time you will gain muscle, it just takes a lot longer.

Yeah my weight does fluctuate throughout the day though. For the most part I'm 135, but after meals I can go up to 138. Still pretty crappy though. I'm not even that skinny, I have short muscular (pretty thick and ugly, but it's been trimmed down lately) calves and my arms are defined if I flex. My bicep isn't to skinny either But I do have some fat on my abs. I can see a four pack if I flex my abs but otherwise it's slightly fatty with the abs cut... so yeah I'm jacked but I wouldn't say I was skinny.

And I'll just tell you my vert story. Originally about 3 months ago my brother and I wanted to see who had a better vertical. There's this part of my house between 2 rooms where you can touch part of the wall that's cut off from one room. So basically you have a pretty useful wall that you can max your jump with without crashing into the wall (you'll just land in the other room). So we took about 3 step running starts and slammed sticky notes on the wall.

My best one was 23". This was a really crude way to do it so that number was definitely off. Then about 3 weeks back I ordered Vertical Mastery. I needed to do the pretests so I went to my gym and measured. I was pretty tired and I didn't have any proper vertical measuring devices so I had to do it the old school way. I'll give you the numbers I got here:

Standing vertical: 17"
Depth jump: 22"
Pause jump: 22"
3 step single leg jump: 17"
3 step double leg jump: 19"

So those were the numbers I recorded. I thought something was definitely wrong, because today I just touched the rubber off 1 and 2 legs

Any ideas?

And one more thing: I shouldn't have to re-measure these numbers before I start Vertical Mastery, do I? (I'm starting today because I had to end some season work) My logic is that it's not one aspect of my jumping was off, because for that day everything was probably off, so it balances out, right? My lifting was fine, but all my jump numbers would be lowered accordingly?

*All times I measured my maximum height touched and subtracted my reach
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Old 04-04-2010, 03:05 AM   #37
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Yea I don't know... you just can't argue with the fact that the rubber is 8 inches below the rim. If that is the case, then your vert is at least 28. If you can touch the rim, your vert is at least 36". Don't even worry about measuring your vert though. You know about how high you can get... and you'll know if you are making improvements because you will be touching higher.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:37 PM   #38
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Default Re: Trainning plan

On closer inspection, I'm not sure how far the rubber is from the rim. To me, it seems like the "orange box" or the orange rim support ends 4 inches below the rim and the rubber is 4 inches below that... I'm not too sure though because I can touch the rubber on those but not the rubber in other gyms I go to. Oh well, I don't really care how much my vertical is compared to how high I can touch.
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:32 AM   #39
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Default Re: Trainning plan

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Originally Posted by Birmingham1955
That move at 1 min was really nice i didn't expect it. I always wondered I know alot of people on ISH say your the best ball player on here, and a lot of them say you aren't. What is your take on that, anytime i watch you it gets more impressive 6'3 with a 6'11 wingspan can jump, shoot, dribble. I haven't seen anyone else that has impressed me as much out of all the videos I have seen. Your 18, are you going to play college basketball somewhere?


To Maize N Blue- I think that speed and first step or more important then vertical leap for a guard thats just my take on it.

Birmingham-
I just do me. I play and practice everyday. And that's the plan don't know where, there a lot of things that will factor in how good i become in the summer. Right now my game is up there and it will keep getting better during the summer as i improve on the court and strength/explosiveness wise, I am really forming into a Russell Westbrook/ John Wall mold. Once i realized that i could go coast to coast on every board or outlet i get since I am really fast with the ball and have good ball handling skills , it really resembles a lot of Wall's HS coast to coast it has really made me a force against ppl i play against. The last 3 pickup games against random ppl on the different days i scored 12 out of my teams 13 buckets, 11 out of my teams 15 buckets, and 7 out of my teams 13 but i had 4 assists. I have been accounting for almost 80% of my teams offense and I am doing it shooting probably 70% from the field.

Last edited by lilojmayo : 04-12-2010 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 04-12-2010, 01:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Yea eventually when my handles get up to your level OJ I want to be able to push the ball like that too cus it just seems fun

My handles have gotten a lot better tho recently. For the last 3 weeks I have been practicing with a friend for about 15 minutes a day before our workouts and I can tell it has helped a lot. One of the exercises we do is dribble up the court (well actually just started it on Friday) and have the other guy try to poke it away. We tried it 3 times and I lost my dribble once, but the other 2 times I was just going And1 pretty much... I felt like I had control that I never had before and it was a great feeling. I wasn't like flying up the court either (knee still preventing me from going full speed) so I was going about half speed making it easier for him to poke it away but he wasn't able to cus the ball was just flying from hand to hand

Once I can go full speed then I will just run full court drills with him one on one and then I can work on my John Wall mode lol.
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:03 PM   #41
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Man you guys are mad lucky to have long arms and stuff. Even though Swaggin I know you're the same build as me... but every time I think I have a fast first step the guys I go against have an even faster first step, their long arms make shooting impossible so I'm pretty much screwed

I'm not bad when I'm confident. But when I don't feel it, there's this huge difference in the way I play. I got no clue who I play like though, I'd think Russell Westbrook also but I pass more and can't jump like him. It would be cool to play with other people on this board though, if that could ever happen.
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:56 PM   #42
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Default Re: Trainning plan

The 2 main things for being effective as a little guy are creating space, and having good fakes. Your goal is get your defender off balance... try to not have too many tendencies otherwise your defender will read you and it will make it easier for them. Just take what they give you. For me, I shoot a step back jumper a lot, so many times I will take that step back, give a head fake, and then drive to the basket... or maybe I will take that step back and fake like I'm going to drive and then pull up... there are like 4 things I can do so I just mix em up to keep my defender off balance. The goal is to get them thinking too much... cus that's when they are going to fail... and if they have you thinking too much that's when you are going to fail. Taller people like to try and block shots too so that's why I was saying up fakes... give em an up fake when driving and if they bite then you should be able to just lay it in, or at least have a clearer look at the basket.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: Trainning plan

What would be some good drills to improve quickness?
I'm more interested in having a quicker first step and just being overall faster, but a higher vert wouldn't hurt either.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggin916
Yea eventually when my handles get up to your level OJ I want to be able to push the ball like that too cus it just seems fun

My handles have gotten a lot better tho recently. For the last 3 weeks I have been practicing with a friend for about 15 minutes a day before our workouts and I can tell it has helped a lot. One of the exercises we do is dribble up the court (well actually just started it on Friday) and have the other guy try to poke it away. We tried it 3 times and I lost my dribble once, but the other 2 times I was just going And1 pretty much... I felt like I had control that I never had before and it was a great feeling. I wasn't like flying up the court either (knee still preventing me from going full speed) so I was going about half speed making it easier for him to poke it away but he wasn't able to cus the ball was just flying from hand to hand

Once I can go full speed then I will just run full court drills with him one on one and then I can work on my John Wall mode lol.

It is fun, to me its like madden 2010 on kick off returns, but real life. And i never practice it full speed, i go pretty slow when i practice full court speed dribbling and emphasis movement of cuts back and forth and switch hands helps me a lot when i do go full speed in live action.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:31 AM   #45
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Default Re: Trainning plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by carpevicis
Man you guys are mad lucky to have long arms and stuff. Even though Swaggin I know you're the same build as me... but every time I think I have a fast first step the guys I go against have an even faster first step, their long arms make shooting impossible so I'm pretty much screwed

I'm not bad when I'm confident. But when I don't feel it, there's this huge difference in the way I play. I got no clue who I play like though, I'd think Russell Westbrook also but I pass more and can't jump like him. It would be cool to play with other people on this board though, if that could ever happen.

i'm a pass first guard. Anytime i have good players on my team particularly a big man my assists are high, like today there was a 6'9 guy pretty good, nothing special just tall at the gym. We ended up on the same team played to 13, I ended up with 8 assists only had 2 buckets. That's how i usually am. The thing is i dont play with many good players so i always score mode even if i pass it they give it right back.

speaking of attacking, you just need to have the right mind set. Usually the defenders that can stay with you are the ones that are overaggressive maybe even handchecking. Combos work only do them once in awhile though, ball stopping is bad basketball. One of the best test i do on how aggressive the defender is, is give them a shot fake, in my mind if he even moves a little i know i am going to have him beat, since i like the ball on the left wing about 18ft out, i shot fake if he moves even a little i know he is an aggressive defender, i then do about 2 or 3 dribbles to the middle, not trying to blow by him since i know he is an aggressive defender then i do another shot fake, and the defender always leave their feet like their actually going to block, rip it through then throw it off the backboard and go get for a layup. Kobe has done this move a few times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3lDZ...eature=related

Now if i shot fake and he doesnt move, i know i am about to launch. Now the hardest defender is the one who just has his hand up contesting. I give him a shot fake if he doesnt move, i might do another shot fake to see if he slipps if he doesnt move, i know i cant get a clean look then you have to go one on one with him.

Another tip is use the pick and roll. try your best to go shoulder to shoulder, because it pins your defender, and leaves the off defender not knowing what to do. one of my favorite pick and roll plays i do is, usually when i am on the wing, i go shoulder to shoulder then my team pops out instead of roll i throw it him then go back behind him and get it and attack, works well very hard to defend in general especially in a pick up game.

Also, dont forget running the breaks, passing a relocating, relocating when some drives. You know your relocating when you find yourself in the deep corners of the baseline 3 quite a bit. you see that all the time in college, nba, not so much in hs and pick up games.

Not going to lie, most of my buckets come from taking it the house going coast to coast on fastbreaks, reckless driving in the halfcourt. Thats probably 70% of my points. but usually at least 1 time where, i have a nice pass and relocate shot attempts, running the wings, and a triple threat type of move usually by getting my d in the air.
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