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Old 03-31-2010, 02:05 AM   #1
Go Getter
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Default Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Let me get this straight first.

Kirk is one of my favorite Bulls.

I love his defense, his cagey moves, his on court demeanor, and the way he carries himself in general.

But he's shooting the ball poorly this season...

What can we attribute this to?

Do you think it something he can snap out of next year or do you think we should trade him?

Regardless of his shooting woes I would be sad to see him go if that's he route we take....
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:01 AM   #2
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

He's playing guys bigger than him, so he needs to shoot differently, and it also keeps him out of any paint matchups. Defensively, he is the best PG the Bulls have ever had, but he's not playing a PG.

We can only trade him, if we get a true SG with the SIZE, skill and age that matches this team. But even in those circumstances, he would be our 6th man, and we wouldn't really need to pay a lot for bench guards if we keep Kirk. He would be able to cover PG and SG off the bench, and start at the 2 again, if Deng gets hurt and our sizable SG can slip to SF. People look at the contract, and think bad things, but Kirk gives us more options than any player on this team. He guards team's star players, and on some nights, he can shut them down, in the clutch too. That's a special player, and his poor shooting has clouded the judgment of a lot of fans. Either or, keeping him would be great, and if we make a great signing and then trade him, thats good too. He is a great chip to have.

IMO. Deng has to go before Kirk. Deng has played well, but his consistency, contract and clutch play make him the priority off-season goodbye move.

Last edited by Crystallas : 03-31-2010 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystallas
He's playing guys bigger than him, so he needs to shoot differently, and it also keeps him out of any paint matchups. Defensively, he is the best PG the Bulls have ever had, but he's not playing a PG.

We can only trade him, if we get a true SG with the SIZE, skill and age that matches this team. But even in those circumstances, he would be our 6th man, and we wouldn't really need to pay a lot for bench guards if we keep Kirk. He would be able to cover PG and SG off the bench, and start at the 2 again, if Deng gets hurt and our sizable SG can slip to SF. People look at the contract, and think bad things, but Kirk gives us more options than any player on this team. He guards team's star players, and on some nights, he can shut them down, in the clutch too. That's a special player, and his poor shooting has clouded the judgment of a lot of fans. Either or, keeping him would be great, and if we make a great signing and then trade him, thats good too. He is a great chip to have.

IMO. Deng has to go before Kirk. Deng has played well, but his consistency, contract and clutch play make him the priority off-season goodbye move.


The shooting is baffling though because I KNOW he can do better than what he's doing...I just don't get why he's struggling to knock down the same shots Flip Murray has been hitting.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Keep him. We saw what happened last night against Nash what happens without him on the court. Until Rose grows into a better defensive player, or we can sign another player with his defensive ability, we need him. You don't forget how to shoot, im sure it will come back to him with a bit off time.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

For the sake in not getting into another long argument about cap n kirk can we stop making threads about him. We know what he can and cant do and lets just leave it at that.
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Old 03-31-2010, 01:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Yeah I agree that I think we've run this topic into the ground. Overall, I think if we were to count all of our opinions on here it would probably be pretty close to 50/50. Half of us would want him to stay and the other half would like to see him traded. I would be in favor of moving him but thats just my opinion. There are valid points to each side of the argument, but I just feel moving him would be to the advantage of the team.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Honestly....I want someone to send Kirk to a hypno-therapist for his shooting woes. I am serious. I luv Kirk but he is way too good overall to short the ball so poorly. If that doesn't work I would like someone to hire a shooting specialist to change his shooting form.

Somebody needs to try hypnotizing him first though because I believe it has become some type of mental block for him. I can see him pass up shots at times that he needs to take. That tells me he fears some type of failure in his own mind.

Kirk... tell somebody in the front-office you need some outside assistance with your shot.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Hinrich is average as a PG. And that's mostly because he is a versatile defender.

As a SG, Hinrich is arguably the worst starter in the entire league. Against SG his defense is average at best and offensively he is a brickmason. As a SG he's barely better than Flip Murray, and Murray is a backup at best.

Honestly, he should've been dealt at the tradeline if they had a reasonable enough deal to ship him out.(basically anything that expires this summer)

As long as Rose is on the Bulls Hinrich has no real purpose. Starting PG is the only position that Hinrich can be a strong contributor.

With Reinsdorf as the (cheapskate) owner, you just can't afford having 9 million per thrown into someone with his kind of numbers. They are Larry Hughes-esque.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Getter
Let me get this straight first.

Kirk is one of my favorite Bulls.

I love his defense, his cagey moves, his on court demeanor, and the way he carries himself in general.

But he's shooting the ball poorly this season...

What can we attribute this to?

Do you think it something he can snap out of next year or do you think we should trade him?

Regardless of his shooting woes I would be sad to see him go if that's he route we take....

I have mixed feelings about John Salmons. A few posters desparately wanted to trade him at all cost as early as December and look at him shoot now at Milwaukee.
Kirk I feel is in a bit of a shooting funk right now but I really think the Bulls can use him to stop the lead PG of the opposing team. I didn't see the game vs Phoenix last night but the game in Arizona, I saw him minimize Nash.
Kirk is perfect for a team like the Lakers, who need a defensive minded PG, a role-complimentary player. Unfortunately the Lakers don't have any player that the Bulls can use and that there are very few teams that really need Kirk, willing to absorb his 17 Mil for 2 years contract.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Minnesota has been rumored to be interested in both Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich in the past. Luol Deng would automatically be their 2nd or 3rd best player and would right away be filled into the starting lineup for them at the SF position. They have a hard time keeping players there long term and Deng is signed for the next couple of years. I know they have Johnny Flynn, Ramon Sessions, and they drafted Ricky Rubio BUT in my opinion Flynn isn't ready to be a starter yet and Kirk would be a good mentor for him and start in the mean time until he was ready. They signed Ramon Sessions with higher expectations of him that he hasn't fulfilled. They can find someone interested in him to take him on in a trade. And they drafted Ricky Rubio with the intention of having the right to trade him and get quality in return, He won't play there and they'll have to trade him and they will get back a good offer. So Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng would start for them. They can give us back Al Jefferson, Wayne Ellington, and a filler. I think that's a fair trade. Free up even more cap space by getting out from under both Deng's and Kirk's contracts and just taking on Al Jeffersons and the other small pieces.
Maybe we have to throw in Taj Gibson to get the deal done. If that's the case then we should get back a high draft pick for him. Or maybe just Luol and Taj Gibson for Al Jefferson and Wayne Ellington and a pick. Just throwing different options out there. And then maybe try to send Kirk to Portland for Martell Webster.
Enough cap room to sign for example Joe Johnson and pry Rudy Gay away from the Grizz. So imagine a lineup of:

Derrick Rose-Acie Law
Joe Johnson-Wayne Ellington
Rudy Gay-James Johnson
Al Jefferson-Hakim Warrick
Joakim Noah-Brad Miller

+ Martell Webster + 2 draft picks

Just throwing different scenarios out there. Nothing that I don't think isnt realistic tho. Pretty good deals in my opinion.

I do know one thing tho these free agents will want to see in the Front Office that they are serious about being aggresive out there in the open market and will want to see the seriousness in the organization wanting to improve a great deal and really trying to be contenders. I think the stars will sit back and see what teams make moves to improve themselves significantly as that will play a major role in where they decide to go. We must be aggresive and explore all the options out there.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

What about a deal with the Indiana Pacers?

Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich, and Taj Gibson

for

Danny Granger, Brandon Rush, and Jeff Foster

Derrick Rose-Acie Law
Brandon Rush-Draft Pick
Danny Granger-James Johnson
Sign Chris Bosh
Joakim Noah-Jeff Foster

With some cap space left over for us. Reasons for both teams to do this.
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljsbb27
What about a deal with the Indiana Pacers?

Luol Deng, Kirk Hinrich, and Taj Gibson

for

Danny Granger, Brandon Rush, and Jeff Foster

Derrick Rose-Acie Law
Brandon Rush-Draft Pick
Danny Granger-James Johnson
Sign Chris Bosh
Joakim Noah-Jeff Foster

With some cap space left over for us. Reasons for both teams to do this.

Im sorry, but I just can't see any team agreeing to absorb Dengs huge contract esp when he is injured all the time. Kirk's contract is a bit pricey and compare that to the much younger and athletic Granger and Rush.
The only team that probably is willing to take Deng is Utah Jazz with the condition of the Bulls taking in ANOTHER huge contract like Kirilenko.
A bad contract for a bad contract, just like the Ben Wallace-Hughes trade
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

I just don't see why people want to dump Kirk. He's played great for this team for along time and is a valuable pice to this team.
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Old 04-05-2010, 01:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Im sorry, but I just can't see any team agreeing to absorb Dengs huge contract esp when he is injured all the time. Kirk's contract is a bit pricey and compare that to the much younger and athletic Granger and Rush.
The only team that probably is willing to take Deng is Utah Jazz with the condition of the Bulls taking in ANOTHER huge contract like Kirilenko.
A bad contract for a bad contract, just like the Ben Wallace-Hughes trade

I understand what your saying but I think your undestimating the fact that the Pacers would also be getting Taj Gibson in this trade. The Pacers have some pretty good offensive players that can shoot the basketball but are really lacking defensively. They have Hibbert at Center.... then you include Taj at the 4 Deng at the 3 and Kirk at the 1 and you have yourself a pretty good defensive team. They also should come out of this upcoming draft with a really good player as they should be getting a good pick. Indiana needs a change of culture for that organization and they would be bringing in 3 high character hard working players and it would change stuff around for them.

On our end it would be really hard letting go of Taj Gibson but we'd have to look at the bigger picture. It wouldn't be a problem if we knew for a fact that we'd be able to sign a big time free agent PF but we can't say that with certainty so we'd be taking a risk but in my opinion it'd be a worth wild risk. I'd even throw in a first round pick of ours for a second round pick of theirs to sweeten the deal.

We'd have:

PG: Derrick Rose
SG: Brandon Rush
SF: Danny Granger
PF: Free Agent (Bosh, Amare, Lee, Boozer - in that order)
c: Joakim Noah

That's a nice looking lineup. Besides Noah the rest wouldn't be good defenders it would definately need to be something we'd need to work on but on the offensive end we'd be scary. And I think all those players are capable of improving their defense.
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: Kirk, Kirk, Kirk....

Kirk Hinrich tonight in 44 minutes of action:

4-16 from the field.

1-6 from the 3-point line.

2 rebounds.

ZERO assists.

"But he brings so much to the team"

No he doesn't. He's played too horrible of a season to deserve staying here. He's holding us back more than he is helping. I've said time and time again that he needs to go in order for us to take the next step to being a better team. Let whatever team is willing to pay his overpaid ass pay him instead and get him off our hands any way possible in the offseason. He does some good things out there on the court but what it comes down to is that he is a PG and we have our superstar at the PG position in Derrick Rose. We don't need Kirk. We need to get rid of him and use the money he's making to fill in needs and add depth to our roster.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a way to ship out Kirk in the offseason FO!
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