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Old 04-18-2010, 09:38 AM   #31
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLogo
I don't think it's fair just to hand the award to Evans because Jennings took his team to the playoffs and dominating.

I believe he is the real ROTY!


Look who Jennings has as his team-mates. Evans is the clear better player.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:15 AM   #32
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

[quote=Showtime]Evans had multiple game winning plays, as well as a 35 point second half comeback in chicago. Without Martin's drama, the kings weren't that bad. With Martin, they only won 2 games.



You are assuming Evans would dominate the basketball with the bucks, which isn't the case. If he has a legit post option in Bogut (like he did with Landry after the trade), he has no problem giving up the ball. BJ averaged 5.7 dimes while Evans had 5.8 while splitting minutes at point. And he might have had more if his teammates could hit outside shots. It's a myth that Evans can't distribute.

Quote:
The Bucks' have a very fluid offense with a lot of movement, the only player that really stops the ball is Salmons. If Kmart couldn't be effective playing with Tyreke, it's hard to see how Salmons could. It's still up in the air whether or not Tyreke would defer in the way a point guard should... or if he would get the ball to Bogut.

And as for Curry? Are you seriously saying he isn't a playmaker?



I didn't say the bucks would be better. I said with Evans or Curry, the bucks would still be a playoff team. What made them successful wasn't mainly BJ. It was a combination of factors with their rookie point guard being one of them, and Evans and Curry could make the same impact at least. Hell, there was a time Luke was the best PG on the team.



You just said he misses open shots, but he's not a bad shooter. That's exactly what an inconsistent shooter does: they are inconsistent. I don't see how being a more consistent and efficient scorer is a negative in Curry and Evans. It seems you want to penalize them for that.



We are having a discussion about THIS SEASON'S ROY award, not about how a guy will develop in a few years.


And Evans and Curry came in and did the same. Why do you look at the record and assume those guys didn't? They stepped up, and could do the job with the bucks.

Hell, I think Collison could do what BJ did with the bucks.

Collison's post AS numbers:

19 PPG, 9 AST, 3 REB

So then BJ is first for rookie of the year and Collison is second? lol...

Do you really think he's a bad shooter? This kid on the Illini, the guy in my avatar, is a great shooter, but it's his freshman season and he came in and after starting off hot, he bricked the whole rest of the year. Threw up air balls... etc... Remember how many air balls Kobe threw up?

Jennings is a good shooter he just had a bad season shooting. I like Jennings because I understand his mind state. He runs the point like I do. A lot of people think it's bad, but I think it's good... you gotta make the defense respect you by shooting and you have to find your shot. As I have said in other threads, I believe the reason rookies usually struggle from the field is they shoot more than vets to find their shot. Where as vets have more experience to get off early, you know? So, if Brandon JEnnings goes 4-14 but 8 of those misses were in the first half, and he makes clutch shots down the stretch it's not really as bad as you think. Try to think outside the box a bit.

Jennings had two of his best games against Tyreke's team and Curry's team. I think that when he is allowed to, he can score just as well as they can. But he's actually trying to run the point.

As LA said, Jennings is the only one that seems to be learning how to WIN and yes that is something that has to be learned... plenty of players put up good stats on bad teams... you can assume that they would do well if they went to another team, but we KNOW that Jennings played well for the Bucks.

He did get benched when Ridnour was wet or when Jennings was just playing stupid, but I don't really hold that against him. One could also say that Coach Skiles has BJ on a tighter chain.

I'm not saying he should win it, but it's not laughable. He's come up big... if you don't include him in the discussion, that's kind of hateful.

-Smak
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

If a player can shoot 37% from the field and make the playoffs, I'm sure he isn't the most valuable player on his team. The Bucks made the playoffs inspite of Jennings.

Like many have said, Bogut has improved tremendously and if it weren't for a few others, would have been a great choice for most improved player of the year. And then there's the trade for John Salmons. It was mentioned during the game that since acquiring Salmons, the bucks had one of the better records for the second half of the seasons.

Jennings is the playmaker, which is an important role, but that is all. He is far from the most valuable player on his team. I'd like to see him sit 10 games next season and watch Salmon/Bogut and others play. I doubt we'd see anything less than 5-5 in that span, especially if the schedule is fair.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:21 AM   #34
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Imagine if I scored 55pts in a game....

I think I would get to have a threesome with Scarlett Johanson and Megan Foxx everynight for a year straight..
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by lxlHoTsAuSelxl
Jennings was playing great for the first few weeks when the season started, after that he's been putting up stats like 4-15, 6-20, 3-12fgm type of stats. Sorry but Bogut has been the clear winner why the Bucks are in the playoffs.



Not so fast.............the addition of John Salmons/ subtraction of Mike redd is reason 1B
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Old 04-18-2010, 12:51 PM   #36
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Nobody expected Bogut to improve this much.

Bogut didn't improve much, he simply stayed on the court and avoided injury (until the end of the season) and was consistent, but he's been nearly this good for a few years now, people just don't watch the Bucks nor payed attention since Milwaukee was never that good.

Meanwhile the Bucks..
1. Were predicted to be in the cellar league wide
2. Lost Redd most the season
3. Traded RJ for next to nothing
4. Let CV walk
5. Let Sessions walk, and claimed in the pre-season their PG rotation was going to be better than last season's with just Jennings and Ridnour
6. Got nothing from last year's lotto pick (Alexander)

Unfortunately for Jennings, ROY is not like MVP where team success trumps everything. If it were MVP, then he should win out of Curry, Evans and Jennings, but the actual ROY award is based mostly of personal achievement, and thus Evans deserves it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

if curry or evans were on the Bucks, they probably would of won over 50 games
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1manfastbreak
if curry or evans were on the Bucks, they probably would of won over 50 games

if jennings was on the kings, they would have made it to WCF
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:36 PM   #39
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLogo
Jennings is the offensive fire power.
No doubt Jenninings had an awesome game in his first playoff game, but he wasn't an offensive power during the regular considering Bogut averaged slightly more points per game in slightly less minutes played.

I'm not here saying that Jennings isn't going to be a great player. I certainly think he's probably going to be around a top 5 guard in the league eventually or at least top 10, but he's far from their offensive power house when he shot a better percentage from three this season (37.4%) than he did from the field overall (37.1%) for the regular season.

This whole post I made could all be in vain if you were just talking about that one playoff game and nothing else.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:37 PM   #40
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
Bogut didn't improve much, he simply stayed on the court and avoided injury (until the end of the season) and was consistent, but he's been nearly this good for a few years now, people just don't watch the Bucks nor payed attention since Milwaukee was never that good.

Meanwhile the Bucks..
1. Were predicted to be in the cellar league wide
2. Lost Redd most the season
3. Traded RJ for next to nothing
4. Let CV walk
5. Let Sessions walk, and claimed in the pre-season their PG rotation was going to be better than last season's with just Jennings and Ridnour
6. Got nothing from last year's lotto pick (Alexander)

Unfortunately for Jennings, ROY is not like MVP where team success trumps everything. If it were MVP, then he should win out of Curry, Evans and Jennings, but the actual ROY award is based mostly of personal achievement, and thus Evans deserves it.

This is the best thing that happened to the team this season, and to me frankly is the main reason they were successful.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:51 PM   #41
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLsmak
So then BJ is first for rookie of the year and Collison is second? lol...

No, idiot. My point is that you are overstating BJ's impact on the bucks, an impact that several other rookies could also make. Impact is all you have, because if not for the bucks record, there is literally NOTHING else that can be said to say BJ deserves the award over players with superior production and efficiency. Problem is, as I said, his impact is being overstated for exactly that reason. Put Evans, Curry, or even Collison at point, and they at least do the same or better as BJ.

Quote:
Do you really think he's a bad shooter? This kid on the Illini, the guy in my avatar, is a great shooter, but it's his freshman season and he came in and after starting off hot, he bricked the whole rest of the year. Threw up air balls... etc... Remember how many air balls Kobe threw up?

I said he's an inconsistent shooter, and that other players have been more efficient and consistent scorers. I don't really get your point. It seems you just want to make excuses for BJ while penalize Curry and Evans for being better statistically.

Quote:
Jennings is a good shooter he just had a bad season shooting. I like Jennings because I understand his mind state. He runs the point like I do. A lot of people think it's bad, but I think it's good... you gotta make the defense respect you by shooting and you have to find your shot. As I have said in other threads, I believe the reason rookies usually struggle from the field is they shoot more than vets to find their shot. Where as vets have more experience to get off early, you know? So, if Brandon JEnnings goes 4-14 but 8 of those misses were in the first half, and he makes clutch shots down the stretch it's not really as bad as you think. Try to think outside the box a bit.

So your point is that making baskets is irrelevant. What really matters is that he's taking shots. Yeah, ok.

Quote:
Jennings had two of his best games against Tyreke's team and Curry's team. I think that when he is allowed to, he can score just as well as they can. But he's actually trying to run the point.

And you are implying that the other rookies don't run point. This is what I've been trying to say: BJ is literally doing NOTHING on the court that other players couldn't step right in and do at least as well. You say BJ runs point well. Ok, well there are at least 3 other rookie guards who do the same. So how are you making a point about him being more deserving?

Quote:
As LA said, Jennings is the only one that seems to be learning how to WIN and yes that is something that has to be learned... plenty of players put up good stats on bad teams... you can assume that they would do well if they went to another team, but we KNOW that Jennings played well for the Bucks.

And that just shows your ignorance, because Evans and Collison were WINNING GAMES and keeping their team competitive when they really shouldn't have been that early on. To think those players couldn't win on better teams in a softer conference is something that hasn't been explained.

Quote:
He did get benched when Ridnour was wet or when Jennings was just playing stupid, but I don't really hold that against him. One could also say that Coach Skiles has BJ on a tighter chain.

Exactly. Skiles whipped his team into shape. He's a big reason why the bucks were as good as they were, and to think that an experienced guard like Collison, or a high IQ player like Curry, or an overall talent like Tyreke couldn't perform at least as well as BJ under Skiles is MORONIC logic.

Quote:
I'm not saying he should win it, but it's not laughable. He's come up big... if you don't include him in the discussion, that's kind of hateful.

-Smak
There is literally nothing that BJ has on his side, other than the TEAM's record, to put him in the discussion. And because of that fact, all his supporters have to argue with is impact on his team, and since that is their last rung, they cling to it and overrate it. The problem BJ has is that there are at least 3 other rookie guards who could do what he did, and nothing he has done sets him apart. Other players have been more productive, more efficient, and could win in his situation. If the kings or warriors drafted BJ, this wouldn't even be a discussion. We would be handing the award to Evans or Curry and watching them play in the playoffs right now.

Last edited by Showtime : 04-18-2010 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:51 PM   #42
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meticode
This is the best thing that happened to the team this season, and to me frankly is the main reason they were successful.
Redd played 33 games last year compared to 18 this year. The team was no better then because of his injury.

Again..

Sessions / Ridnour
Bell / Bogans / Redd
Jefferson / LRMM
Villanueva / Allen
Bogut / Gadzuric

Won 34 games


Jennings / Ridnour
Salmons* / Delfino / Redd
LRMM / Stackhouse
Ilyasova / K.Thomas
Bogut / Gadzuric

Won 46 games

The single biggest difference I see is the PG position, yet I would say last season's team in easily more talented.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
Redd played 33 games last year compared to 18 this year. The team was no better then because of his injury.

Again..

Sessions / Ridnour
Bell / Bogans / Redd
Jefferson / LRMM
Villanueva / Allen
Bogut / Gadzuric

Won 34 games


Jennings / Ridnour
Salmons* / Delfino / Redd
LRMM / Stackhouse
Ilyasova / K.Thomas
Bogut / Gadzuric

Won 46 games

The single biggest difference I see is the PG position, yet I would say last season's team in easily more talented.
Coaching, and Bogut improved. He really has made an impact down low, and I was really surprised with the development of his post game. People were ready to write him off, but he turned things around and deserves credit for doing so.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:57 PM   #44
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
Redd played 33 games last year compared to 18 this year. The team was no better then because of his injury.

Again..

Sessions / Ridnour
Bell / Bogans / Redd
Jefferson / LRMM
Villanueva / Allen
Bogut / Gadzuric

Won 34 games


Jennings / Ridnour
Salmons* / Delfino / Redd
LRMM / Stackhouse
Ilyasova / K.Thomas
Bogut / Gadzuric

Won 46 games

The single biggest difference I see is the PG position, yet I would say last season's team in easily more talented.

Since last year I felt Redd was hurting the team, I still feel they were better without him and that was the biggest reason.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
Coaching, and Bogut improved. He really has made an impact down low, and I was really surprised with the development of his post game. People were ready to write him off, but he turned things around and deserves credit for doing so.

They had the same coach (Skiles) both seasons.

Also, I wrote this earlier if you care to address these points:

Bogut didn't improve much, he simply stayed on the court and avoided injury (until the end of the season) and was consistent, but he's been nearly this good for a few years now, people just don't watch the Bucks nor payed attention since Milwaukee was never that good.

Meanwhile the Bucks..
1. Were predicted to be in the cellar league wide
2. Lost Redd most the season
3. Traded RJ for next to nothing
4. Let CV walk
5. Let Sessions walk, and claimed in the pre-season their PG rotation was going to be better than last season's with just Jennings and Ridnour
6. Got nothing from last year's lotto pick (Alexander)
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