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Old 04-18-2010, 02:00 PM   #46
Meticode
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

This season in the games he played in the Bucks were 6-11.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
They had the same coach (Skiles) both seasons.

Also, I wrote this earlier if you care to address these points:

Bogut didn't improve much, he simply stayed on the court and avoided injury (until the end of the season) and was consistent, but he's been nearly this good for a few years now, people just don't watch the Bucks nor payed attention since Milwaukee was never that good.


Meanwhile the Bucks..
1. Were predicted to be in the cellar league wide
2. Lost Redd most the season
3. Traded RJ for next to nothing
4. Let CV walk
5. Let Sessions walk, and claimed in the pre-season their PG rotation was going to be better than last season's with just Jennings and Ridnour
6. Got nothing from last year's lotto pick (Alexander)

He's improved a lot this season, and the not watching the Bucks doesn't work for me since I live in Wisconsin the last almost 6 years. Being consistent is a big part of improvement. Imagine if J.R. fuckin' Smith was consistent, he would be a borderline star probably if he got regular starting minutes. Consistency is a huge improvement.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:04 PM   #48
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Again, I don't think BJ is ROY, but people want to treat this award like it is MVP, which it is not. Jennings should win an MVP of rookies , but not ROY since ROY is individual success dominated, while MVP is team success dominated.

I will say however, that alot of posters (mostly Evans, Curry and WC fans) seemingly want to discredit BJ's accomplishments with hypotheticals that they treat as truth (ex. Curry or Evans would do better than Jennings on the Bucks). I don't think it's that clear cut and easy to do.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:07 PM   #49
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meticode
He's improved a lot this season, and the not watching the Bucks doesn't work for me since I live in Wisconsin the last almost 6 years. Being consistent is a big part of improvement. Imagine if J.R. fuckin' Smith was consistent, he would be a borderline star probably if he got regular starting minutes. Consistency is a huge improvement.

I see your point. I also think health and consistency are interwoven, and that his health allowed him to be consistent, but he hasn't necessarily become more skilled or better at anything in particular on the court.

But even if people assumed Bogut would be healthy, they still didn't see the same type of success for the Bucks. IMO, a healthy Bogut has been one of the top centers in the league for a couple years now... I don't really see who is competition has been either.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:12 PM   #50
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
I see your point. I also think health and consistency are interwoven, and that his health allowed him to be consistent, but he hasn't necessarily become more skilled or better at anything in particular on the court.

But even if people assumed Bogut would be healthy, they still didn't see the same type of success for the Bucks. IMO, a healthy Bogut has been one of the top centers in the league for a couple years now... I don't really see who is competition has been either.

Health is very true on that aspect, but two seasons ago he played more games and more minutes and averaged less in points and blocks and field goal percentage and rebounds and free throw percentage than last season. Although it's a moot point for me to bring up 2 years ago when that was only his third full season.

I definitely do feel he became a better defender above everything else. And while I hate to spit out numbers all the time he did average 2.5 blocks per game this year when before than he averaged .8, .5, 1.7 and last year at 1.0. Skiles is a good defensive coach, and Bogut was the main anchor of that paint defense to me
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:16 PM   #51
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

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Originally Posted by Meticode
Health is very true on that aspect, but two seasons ago he played more games and more minutes and averaged less in points and blocks and field goal percentage and rebounds and free throw percentage than last season. Although it's a moot point for me to bring up 2 years ago when that was only his third full season.

I definitely do feel he became a better defender above everything else. And while I hate to spit out numbers all the time he did average 2.5 blocks per game this year when before than he averaged .8, .5, 1.7 and last year at 1.0. Skiles is a good defensive coach, and Bogut was the main anchor of that paint defense to me

Yes, defensively he did become more assertive. I think Jennings on court leadership and chemistry with Bogut helped in that regard as well. I think Jennings leadership ability as a rookie is being overlooked. I actually like the way this kid has carried himself on and off the court. Outspoken at times, but that's cool by me. More teams could use that.

Also...
I see Bogut missed 13 games this season.
Any idea their record in games he missed?
Just curious..
I know they went 5-2 from the Phoenix game in which he got injured.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:18 PM   #52
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckOakley
Yes, defensively he did become more assertive. I think Jennings on court leadership and chemistry with Bogut helped in that regard as well. I think Jennings leadership ability as a rookie is being overlooked. I actually like the way this kid has carried himself on and off the court. Outspoken at times, but that's cool by me. More teams could use that.

Also...
I see Bogut missed 13 games this season.
Any idea their record in games he missed?
Just curious..
I know they went 5-2 from the Phoenix game in which he got injured.

7-7

Edit: 6-7 counted an extra win he played in.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

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Originally Posted by Showtime
No, idiot. My point is that you are overstating BJ's impact on the bucks, an impact that several other rookies could also make. Impact is all you have, because if not for the bucks record, there is literally NOTHING else that can be said to say BJ deserves the award over players with superior production and efficiency. Problem is, as I said, his impact is being overstated for exactly that reason. Put Evans, Curry, or even Collison at point, and they at least do the same or better as BJ.



I said he's an inconsistent shooter, and that other players have been more efficient and consistent scorers. I don't really get your point. It seems you just want to make excuses for BJ while penalize Curry and Evans for being better statistically.



So your point is that making baskets is irrelevant. What really matters is that he's taking shots. Yeah, ok.



And you are implying that the other rookies don't run point. This is what I've been trying to say: BJ is literally doing NOTHING on the court that other players couldn't step right in and do at least as well. You say BJ runs point well. Ok, well there are at least 3 other rookie guards who do the same. So how are you making a point about him being more deserving?



And that just shows your ignorance, because Evans and Collison were WINNING GAMES and keeping their team competitive when they really shouldn't have been that early on. To think those players couldn't win on better teams in a softer conference is something that hasn't been explained.



Exactly. Skiles whipped his team into shape. He's a big reason why the bucks were as good as they were, and to think that an experienced guard like Collison, or a high IQ player like Curry, or an overall talent like Tyreke couldn't perform at least as well as BJ under Skiles is MORONIC logic.


There is literally nothing that BJ has on his side, other than the TEAM's record, to put him in the discussion. And because of that fact, all his supporters have to argue with is impact on his team, and since that is their last rung, they cling to it and overrate it. The problem BJ has is that there are at least 3 other rookie guards who could do what he did, and nothing he has done sets him apart. Other players have been more productive, more efficient, and could win in his situation. If the kings or warriors drafted BJ, this wouldn't even be a discussion. We would be handing the award to Evans or Curry and watching them play in the playoffs right now.

Don't confuse what might happen with what did happen...

Why are you angry, anyway? Calling names and all that...

I've said my piece. Sorry that we disagree.

-Smak
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:42 PM   #54
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeaaaman
Why do people use ridiculous compariosons to try and make their point valid? You sound like the people who try and say rings don't matter, and because Horry has 7 rings he's better than Karl Malone. Do you honestly believe comparing Darko Milicic to Lebron in terms of ROY is the same as comparing Jennings to Evans or Curry? If you do I just know from here on out to never respond/read/take any of your posts seriously, and hopefully everyone else can do the same.

Way to take what I said out of context. My point is that BJ's impact on the Bucks shouldn't be overstated. Maybe if you read the rest of the post, along with my next post, instead of jumping to conclusions, you'd get that.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:12 PM   #55
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILLsmak
Don't confuse what might happen with what did happen...

I'm not. What happened was that BJ didn't have the best season out of all rookies.

Quote:
Why are you angry, anyway? Calling names and all that...

Because you were either being a smart ass with that collison comment, or incredibly lacking in reading comprehension.

Quote:
I've said my piece. Sorry that we disagree.

-Smak
And too bad it's such a poor argument. I was hoping for somebody to actually give me legit arguments, but it looks like that isn't going to happen.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:00 PM   #56
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Nobody expected Bogut to improve this much.
So Bogut's improvement was worth 20 extra wins? He should be top-5 in MVP voting if that's true.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:02 AM   #57
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Bucks have tied the series 2-2 vs a superior Hawks team even w/o Bogat. Jennings has to get alot of credit for this
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

umm you mean the guy who'd been shooting less than 30% for two consecutive months in January and February?
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

If Jennings wins ROTY I will leave ISH forever.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:22 PM   #60
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Default Re: Brandon Jennings is ROTY

Once again, let's ignore Salmons. And the fact that the hawks have trouble performing on the road. And that Curry or Evans could bend over Bibby and make him squeel.
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