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Old 05-13-2010, 01:31 AM   #46
magnax1
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by mattevans11
and you were inferring that this is true for everyone...... i know inferences is a higher type of skill in reading comprehension...... but you CAN DO IT!!!!! i believe in you!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly as I said, you're being a dumbass. I wrote what I wrote. YOU interpreted it however YOU wanted to.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:38 AM   #47
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by magnax1
Exactly as I said, you're being a dumbass. I wrote what I wrote. YOU interpreted it however YOU wanted to.


oh wow you are actually serious?

nuff said
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:40 AM   #48
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by Tito Beasley
You don't think they're gonna be great athletes when they get there? I don't understand. You don't think it's good for the league to have rookies, who often are relied on to play significant minutes, to have that much more experience and basketball aptitude playing at a post-high school level?

Also, I don't necessarily agree with 21 either. I think two years removed from high school is sufficient, and for many players that's 20. And I think the pros outweight the cons when you let players who are going to be paid multi-millions develop some maturity at a lower level before you immediately throw them onto a court with professional 30 year olds.


In 2003/04, Dwyane Wade averaged 16/4/4 and had a great playoff run, helping the Heat advance to the second round. He hit a memorable game winner in round 1 vs the Hornets. If the age limit is 21, this never happens.

In 2004/05, LeBron James averaged 27/7/7 and became the youngest NBA player ever to make an All-NBA team. In 05/06, he won the ASG MVP, scored 35+ 9 games in a row, and averaged 31/7/7. He also led his team to the second round of the playoffs. If the age limit is 21, he's still wasting his time playing against inferior college competition.

Last season Derrick Rose led his Bulls team to the playoffs as a rookie and played a major role in one of the most exciting first round playoff series ever. If the age limit is 21, that never happens.

This season Kevin Durant became an MVP candidate and led the Thunder to the playoffs where they competed pretty admirably against the defending champs. If the age limit is 21, KD is either a rookie or still in college (not sure exactly when he turned 21), and this scenario likely never happens.

This season Tyreke Evans became just the 4th rookie ever to average 20-5-5. If the age limit is 21, he has to play for free for another season even though he's capable of recording stats in the NBA that only 3 other rookies have ever accomplished.

This season Brandon Jennings scored 55 points in a game and helped the Bucks make a major, unexpected improvement. With their best player out for the season, his team still competed well.


These events were all good for the NBA, no? If the age limit was 21, none of these things happen. I don't see how that's a good thing.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:46 AM   #49
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by StroShow4
In 2003/04, Dwyane Wade averaged 16/4/4 and had a great playoff run, helping the Heat advance to the second round. He hit a memorable game winner in round 1 vs the Hornets. If the age limit is 21, this never happens.

In 2004/05, LeBron James averaged 27/7/7 and became the youngest NBA player ever to make an All-NBA team. In 05/06, he won the ASG MVP, scored 35+ 9 games in a row, and averaged 31/7/7. He also led his team to the second round of the playoffs. If the age limit is 21, he's still wasting his time playing against inferior college competition.

Last season Derrick Rose led his Bulls team to the playoffs as a rookie and played a major role in one of the most exciting first round playoff series ever. If the age limit is 21, that never happens.

This season Kevin Durant became an MVP candidate and led the Thunder to the playoffs where they competed pretty admirably against the defending champs. If the age limit is 21, KD is either a rookie or still in college (not sure exactly when he turned 21), and this scenario likely never happens.

This season Tyreke Evans became just the 4th rookie ever to average 20-5-5. If the age limit is 21, he has to play for free for another season even though he's capable of recording stats in the NBA that only 3 other rookies have ever accomplished.

This season Brandon Jennings scored 55 points in a game and helped the Bucks make a major, unexpected improvement. With their best player out for the season, his team still competed well.


These events were all good for the NBA, no? If the age limit was 21, none of these things happen. I don't see how that's a good thing.


We're arguing different things then because in all your examples, you cited 21 as the hypothetical cutoff age, whereas my argument is for 2 years out of high school which generally correlates to 20. and while you can always find examples to support almost anything, i think the instances of putting michael beasley out on the court when he has no clue what he's doing simply because you picked him 2nd overall and have to play him are more detrimental overall than would be waiting an extra year for all those good players you mentioned to get into the league. because even those players will benefit early in their careers from the extra experience.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:48 AM   #50
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

Do it like baseball. Wanna go pro at 18? Fine. But if you go to college you have to stay 3 years.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:51 AM   #51
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by Tito Beasley
We're arguing different things then because in all your examples, you cited 21 as the hypothetical cutoff age, whereas my argument is for 2 years out of high school which generally correlates to 20. and while you can always find examples to support almost anything, i think the instances of putting michael beasley out on the court when he has no clue what he's doing simply because you picked him 2nd overall and have to play him are more detrimental overall than would be waiting an extra year for all those good players you mentioned to get into the league. because even those players will benefit early in their careers from the extra experience.

Michael Beasley hasn't been that bad, he just hasn't lived up to the very high expectations. I think having to deal with a hyped rookie only averaging like 15/6 (or whatever Beasley averages, that's a guess) in his second year is well worth getting to experience all the moments that I mentioned.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:54 AM   #52
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
Do it like baseball. Wanna go pro at 18? Fine. But if you go to college you have to stay 3 years.


yeah but pro baseball players always start in the minor leagues.


the purpose of the rule is strictly to give teams the best possible understanding of a player before they throw 20 million dollars in his pocket. i don't think it's so unreasonable to say "we wanna see this kid for at least a couple seasons out of high school before we do that."

the NBA is a business. it's not a charity, it's not a community organization, it's not a government program. they are a company and can set the standards they would like for their employees.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:59 AM   #53
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by Tito Beasley
yeah but pro baseball players always start in the minor leagues.


the purpose of the rule is strictly to give teams the best possible understanding of a player before they throw 20 million dollars in his pocket. i don't think it's so unreasonable to say "we wanna see this kid for at least a couple seasons out of high school before we do that."

the NBA is a business. it's not a charity, it's not a community organization, it's not a government program. they are a company and can set the standards they would like for their employees.


how many rookies get 20 million dollar contracts in their first contract?
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:05 AM   #54
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by mattevans11
how many rookies get 20 million dollar contracts in their first contract?

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Old 05-13-2010, 02:11 AM   #55
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by Tito Beasley

2001 was a weird draft. Two all-stars picked in the lottery, five all-stars picked after the lottery.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:18 AM   #56
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

How bout Greg Oden? He played injured during his one year in college. Maybe if he'd had to have gone back for a second year the Blazers could have had more information to evaluate as far as his ability to stay healthy, based on whatever would have happened in his second year.

I don't see how it can be argued that more information is not good for teams. They can wait one more year for rookies. Tyreke Evans performance was nice but it didnt change anything about the league. The NBA would have still been alright if he'd played one more year of college.
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:12 AM   #57
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

MJ wouldn't be MJ if he came to NBA straight from HS
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:48 AM   #58
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

If you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to play in the NBA.

Age restrictions are pointless. Forced education isn't effective. There is little proof showing that a person with additional schooling will be wiser with their money. It's not fair to those who want to be in school, to see athletes get free passes in their grades and classes just so they are eligable to play.

If the NBA see's a real concern for the level of maturity coming into the NBA, then utilize D-League better, further develop the minor league.

There is far too much corruption in college systems. For all we know, Kareem is trying to make more money for his alum. I know dozens of people that had to have filed for bankruptcy, and the number one reason was their student loans. Unfortunately, student loans aren't wiped out, so people claim being underemployed for their main reasons, which also screws statistics.
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:13 AM   #59
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by Crystallas
If you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to play in the NBA.

Age restrictions are pointless. Forced education isn't effective. There is little proof showing that a person with additional schooling will be wiser with their money. It's not fair to those who want to be in school, to see athletes get free passes in their grades and classes just so they are eligable to play.

If the NBA see's a real concern for the level of maturity coming into the NBA, then utilize D-League better, further develop the minor league.

There is far too much corruption in college systems. For all we know, Kareem is trying to make more money for his alum. I know dozens of people that had to have filed for bankruptcy, and the number one reason was their student loans. Unfortunately, student loans aren't wiped out, so people claim being underemployed for their main reasons, which also screws statistics.

I don't know if I agree with you about education, though. Well, there are different kinds. I believe these guys just need more life experience. He's right in that people never have to work for anything and that does affect them as people. If they are groomed from a young age to be a basketball player, and peopel are asking for their autographs when they are like 13, what do you expect? Look at all of the hollywood actors that were famous as children and teenagers. The majority of them are head cases.

I don't think they should have to go to college, but the NCAA wants to make money off of them. It would be cool to see them in some sort of a real life camp, though. But there are always ways around it... even if they made them attend "NBA College" and have a small income, some agent could be paying them under the table.

There's no way to fix it, unfortunately, but I think it would be good to see these 18 year old guys go straight to the NBA. Why let them make a mockery of the NCAA as well as take BS classes for 3 years? Imagine the talent level of a team with a 'good recruiting coach'... these guys would not only be one and dones (which in the end damage the team), but they would be getting paid, still getting breaks and still be entitled... the only difference is they'd be dominating college basketball.

-Smak
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:50 AM   #60
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Default Re: Should the minimum age be 21 instead of 19?

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Originally Posted by Tito Beasley
No it couldn't. You wanna send 27 year olds who are far more likely to have a family to support and are far more important for skilled labor? Or would you rather send 13 year olds?
Lol, 13 year-olds? What?

We aren't even talking about whether or not the recruits have family, just whether or not they have the mental maturity, but FYI a 27 year-old man with a family and no job might well join the army just so that he can become more of a provider. A friend of mine is in Afghanistan right now because he had a baby and knew he couldn't bring the baby's momma and new son into his mom's house. Going further down the age line, I have a friend approaching his 40s who desperately wants into the army with no kids at all. He can't get in because when he was younger he got busted on some drug trafficking but he's an example of someone that's almost too old but still wants to sign up. We're not talking about drafting dads away from their families here, we're talking about grown adult men that want to join the army.
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