Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
relatives procreating is only dangerous with a degenerated DNA. There are dominant and recessive genes. With two relatives the probability is higher that the offspring gets two genesets that lead to a genetic desease that is passed by recessive genes.
This is the most simply way I can put it. Relatives procreating does not automatically lead to "retarded" kids. Adam and Eve most likely had a perfect DNA if god created them. The genepool only degenerated later.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
They still believe the whole OT is true though. Taking something with a grain of salt is being skeptical of its truth.
It's more so being 'skeptical' of a literal interpretation of certain scripture.
I've brought up Isaiah 53 because it illustrates my point perfectly.
Quote:
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. [b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ;
by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
^Many Christians, especially evangelicals who read everything literally, cite this as an Old Testament 'prophecy' of their messiah, Jesus.
Jews, however, go beyond the literal perspective and explain that it is part of a larger strain within Isaiah and the OT which personifies the state of Israel (the land, the people, all it entails) as the 'suffering servant'.
So the Jews (who wrote the damn thing) take the literal interpretation of Isaiah 53 with a grain of salt. Do you get it now?
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
It's more so being 'skeptical' of a literal interpretation of certain scripture.
I've brought up Isaiah 53 because it illustrates my point perfectly.
^Many Christians, especially evangelicals who read everything literally, cite this as an Old Testament 'prophecy' of their messiah, Jesus.
Jews, however, go beyond the literal perspective and explain that it is part of a larger strain within Isaiah and the OT which personifies the state of Israel (the land, the people, all it entails) as the 'suffering servant'.
So the Jews (who wrote the damn thing) take the literal interpretation of Isaiah 53 with a grain of salt. Do you get it now?
How are those d*cks tasting btw?
people who read the bible as a literal text are flat out ignorant of the history of the book and the religions it was created from and/or influenced by.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
It's more so being 'skeptical' of a literal interpretation of certain scripture.
I've brought up Isaiah 53 because it illustrates my point perfectly.
^Many Christians, especially evangelicals who read everything literally, cite this as an Old Testament 'prophecy' of their messiah, Jesus.
Jews, however, go beyond the literal perspective and explain that it is part of a larger strain within Isaiah and the OT which personifies the state of Israel (the land, the people, all it entails) as the 'suffering servant'.
So the Jews (who wrote the damn thing) take the literal interpretation of Isaiah 53 with a grain of salt. Do you get it now?
How are those d*cks tasting btw?
Nice backtracking. You were wrong, admit it.
Quote:
The funny thing is (at least from what I've personally observed), Jews take the Old Testament with a grain of salt. They believe that it tells their history and the history of humanity and reveals the nature of God, man, etc but they also recognize that the writers of the book used allegory and other various literary devices in order to get certain points across. Maybe there are more fundamental sects that take the books literally but that usually comes from the Evangelical Christians in certain concentrated areas ::cough, the south, cough::
The debate over Isaiah 53 is a prime example.
And of course Jews will be speculative on "whom" the passage is talking about when they do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
I thought this thread was going to ask where black, mexican, and asian people came from then. But this is another point on how rediculous the bible is, and the people who believe in it.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by bada bing
this guy has got it right.
regardless of religious belief or not...the early human civilization and expansion did start via mating among relatives...
there is a difference between a breeding population of a hundred or so related individuals and 2 people. Also, the idea that recessive traits are degenerated dna is ludicrous.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseCity07
I thought this thread was going to ask where black, mexican, and asian people came from then. But this is another point on how rediculous the bible is, and the people who believe in it.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentatm
OR they just know that their religious texts often dealt in metaphor to get the point across.
You really want to claim Christians know the Old Testament better than Jews? Really?
If a person came a long who the Jews believe is the Messiah, they would turn straight to Isaiah 53 to say that that passage is referring to their Messiah.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
Nice backtracking. You were wrong, admit it.
Where was I backtracking exactly?
Quote:
And of course Jews will be speculative on "whom" the passage is talking about when they do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
If anyone is being 'speculative', it's Christians. Jews wrote the Old Testament, so if they say a passage is in reference to something in particular, it would be a great idea to listen, especially when reading said passage in its proper context.
The New Testament writers tried very hard to make Jesus fit into certain messianic 'prophecies' and passages that were in the OT, and they failed miserably.
The Jews created the idea of a messiah and they keep trying to tell you Jesus Clause ain't the guy they're looking for, so that should speak volumes on 'speculation'.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
there is a difference between a breeding population of a hundred or so related individuals and 2 people. Also, the idea that recessive traits are degenerated dna is ludicrous.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that relatives mating increases the probability of 2 recessive traits meeting in the DNA. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe most serious genetic diseases are passed through recessive genes.
Also, and I didn't think I'd have to say that, I do not believe God created Adam and Eve. But IF he did (and if he does indeed exist), he certainly would have created them with a perfect DNA, no?
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
If a person came a long who the Jews believe is the Messiah, they would turn straight to Isaiah 53 to say that that passage is referring to their Messiah.
NO.
Like I've said, they don't read the passage (and all 'servant' passages found in Isaiah) to be referencing a literal person... they say it is the personification of Israel, which is bolstered by Isaiah and the OT as a whole. Only Christians use the passage as 'prophesy' about any messiah.
Interesting side note about that passage's debate though is that some believe if it is in reference to a person/possible messiah, it was 'the teacher of righteousness' who may or may not be to Jesus what St. Nicholas was to Santa. Many copies of Isaiah were found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
Also, and I didn't think I'd have to say that, I do not believe God created Adam and Eve. But IF he did (and if he does indeed exist), he certainly would have created them with a perfect DNA, no?
Im confused. What exactly is 'perfect DNA'? And how did imperfection result from 'perfection'?
Re: *If Adam and Eve Was The First 2 People On Earth...*
You were wrong, admit it.
