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Old 05-07-2012, 07:23 PM   #91
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
Stop calling him Lucy, fruitcake

That's his name. Luc is short for Lucy. Apparently an Aussie thing or his parents were very cruel?
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:39 PM   #92
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by guy
I can imagine what Phil said to him "We'd be a better team with better scoring, shotblocking, rebounding, and passing from our center, but we don't need to be a better team so we are not going to expect you to do that." There's a reason certain players' roles are different and it usually has to do with how good of a player they are. Luc Longley's role was to hit an open jumper or layup once in a while, be a big body thats not a defensive liability, and commit fouls that Jordan and Pippen don't have to commit. Is that screaming "all-star" to you like Marc Gasol was this year? Sure, Gasol may have not been an all-star back then but the difference in eras in 15 years isn't that huge to think Gasol wouldn't have still been a top 10 center in the league back then and Longley would've somehow been all-star caliber in this era. Bottom line is Longley's role would've been bigger if he was actually BETTER.
Im not saying longley was held back. If you read, i even said i feel jackson, jordan, pippen, and rodman molded him into what became a serviceable center. Cuz he was well on his way to being a certified bust in minnesota.

Saying that. I dont see how if longley were to play opposite lower quality centers like today, that he wouldnt look like a better center. Again, follow me, due to play lesser caliber/quality centers. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Its no different than the stance by alot of people that dwight howard would be the a top 7-10 center in the 90s, but hes regarded as the best center today. Whats the difference between yao ming and rik smits? Why couldnt smit dominate the 90s like ming did the 00s?


I do feel kukoc was held back though. Similar to james harden and manu ginobli.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:00 PM   #93
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

I just think this notion that the bulls weakness was a center needs to stop. They werent shaq, or anything close. But they were great for what the bulls needed. Big strong post defenders that wont get pushed around down low. And offensively, they all were great jumpshooters.

And its why i loved the 97 bulls. Brian Williams was a good center. And he was athletic and capable of scoring in the post. How many teams can say they have three 7 footers and another 6'11 player, then another great low post defender in Rodman?

Last edited by 97 bulls : 05-07-2012 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:01 PM   #94
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
That's his name. Luc is short for Lucy. Apparently an Aussie thing or his parents were very cruel?
Stop lying. His name is Lucien.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:13 PM   #95
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
And its why i loved the 97 bulls. Brian Williams was a good center. And he was athletic and capable of scoring in the post. How many teams can say they have three 77 footers and another 6'11 player, then another great low post defender in Rodman?

Your other two 7 footers after Longley were a 43 year old Robert Parish and Bill Wennington who was a mediocre shot blocker despite his size. Having a bunch of 7 footers doesn't mean anything if they can't play.

Look at the current Nuggets team. They have three 7 footers. McGee, Koufos, & Mozgov. Despite that size the Lakers more skilled 7 footers are having their way against them. Mozgov and Koufos are scrubs, McGee gives them a good defensive presence, but lacks offense. 6 foot 10 Jordan Hill is grabbing more rebounds than any of the Nuggets 7 footers.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:18 PM   #96
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
Your other two 7 footers after Longley were a 43 year old Robert Parish and Bill Wennington who was a mediocre shot blocker despite his size. Having a bunch of 7 footers doesn't mean anything if they can't play.

Look at the current Nuggets team. They have three 7 footers. McGee, Koufos, & Mozgov. Despite that size the Lakers more skilled 7 footers are having their way against them. Mozgov and Koufos are scrubs, McGee gives them a good defensive presence, but lacks offense. 6 foot 10 Jordan Hill is grabbing more rebounds than any of the Nuggets 7 footers.
Good point. Too bad the nuggets dont have a jordan, piippen rodman, type players to go with all that size.

But again, the bulls centers were exactly what i said they were, big guys that didnt get pushed around and excellent jumpshooters. Thats all the bulls needed.

Last edited by 97 bulls : 05-07-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:21 PM   #97
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Im not saying longley was held back. If you read, i even said i feel jackson, jordan, pippen, and rodman molded him into what became a serviceable center. Cuz he was well on his way to being a certified bust in minnesota.

Saying that. I dont see how if longley were to play opposite lower quality centers like today, that he wouldnt look like a better center. Again, follow me, due to play lesser caliber/quality centers. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Its no different than the stance by alot of people that dwight howard would be the a top 7-10 center in the 90s, but hes regarded as the best center today. Whats the difference between yao ming and rik smits? Why couldnt smit dominate the 90s like ming did the 00s?


I do feel kukoc was held back though. Similar to james harden and manu ginobli.

You're implying that Longley was on the same level of someone like Marc Gasol, who's easily a top 5 center in today's league and was just an all-star. Sounds like you're saying he could've been Marc if he had the same role. So are you saying Longley is close to an all-star today? Thats insanely stupid. Would he have done better in today's league? Maybe. Either way, he's still a below average center today just like he was back then playing a similar role like he did back then. Would be one thing if you mentioned someone like Rony Seikaly, Rik Smits, Sam Perkins, Vlade Divac, Hot Rod Williams, etc. But Luc Longley?

Dwight Howard being only a top 7-10 center in the 90s is a huge exaggeration. The only centers in the 90s who were ever arguably better then Howard of the last 4 years was Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, and Shaq. So at the very least he's in the top 5. And since we are mostly referring to the 2nd-three peat era, he would've been better then Ewing by at least 96, Robinson by 97 who got injured and was never the same afterwards, and Hakeem by either 97 or at least 98. So he's a top 2-4 center in the league during that time.

Yao when healthy was easily better then Smits. Better scorer, better rebounder, probably a better defender as well. Yao was one of the only players that could go one-on-one with Shaq on both ends and still hold his own.

Seriously, there are differences in the 90s and 00s with the center play being the largest difference. But come on people its really not that big regardless of rule changes, high school players, less big men, better athletes, etc. Dominant players today would dominate 15 years ago and vice-versa.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:59 PM   #98
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by guy
You're implying that Longley was on the same level of someone like Marc Gasol, who's easily a top 5 center in today's league and was just an all-star. Sounds like you're saying he could've been Marc if he had the same role. So are you saying Longley is close to an all-star today? Thats insanely stupid. Would he have done better in today's league? Maybe. Either way, he's still a below average center today just like he was back then playing a similar role like he did back then. Would be one thing if you mentioned someone like Rony Seikaly, Rik Smits, Sam Perkins, Vlade Divac, Hot Rod Williams, etc. But Luc Longley?

Dwight Howard being only a top 7-10 center in the 90s is a huge exaggeration. The only centers in the 90s who were ever arguably better then Howard of the last 4 years was Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, and Shaq. So at the very least he's in the top 5. And since we are mostly referring to the 2nd-three peat era, he would've been better then Ewing by at least 96, Robinson by 97 who got injured and was never the same afterwards, and Hakeem by either 97 or at least 98. So he's a top 2-4 center in the league during that time.

Yao when healthy was easily better then Smits. Better scorer, better rebounder, probably a better defender as well. Yao was one of the only players that could go one-on-one with Shaq on both ends and still hold his own.

Seriously, there are differences in the 90s and 00s with the center play being the largest difference. But come on people its really not that big regardless of rule changes, high school players, less big men, better athletes, etc. Dominant players today would dominate 15 years ago and vice-versa.
I think you need to go back and look at robinson, olajuwan, and ewing numbers for the years in question. They all were putting up damn good numbers. Robinson did miss the 97 season, and ewing missed a large portion of the 96 i believe, but they were still great centers.

As far as ming and smits? The same logic applies. Trying to say ming is more talented than smits due to their stats is just dumb. When you factor in everything
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:07 PM   #99
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
I think you need to go back and look at robinson, olajuwan, and ewing numbers for the years in question. They all were putting up damn good numbers. Robinson did miss the 97 season, and ewing missed a large portion of the 96 i believe, but they were still great centers.

As far as ming and smits? The same logic applies. Trying to say ming is more talented than smits due to their stats is just dumb. When you factor in everything

So I should look at Robinson, Hakeem, and Ewing's stats (which by the way do not favor those players vs. Howard for the years in question) to better educate myself and then ignore Yao and Smits' stats? By the way, where did I mention stats at all? I don't need stats to tell me anything. I watched all the players mentioned. Luc Longley was nothing more then a role player that a team could afford having start on their team as long as there was 3 HOFers alongside him.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:09 PM   #100
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by guy
You're implying that Longley was on the same level of someone like Marc Gasol, who's easily a top 5 center in today's league and was just an all-star. Sounds like you're saying he could've been Marc if he had the same role. So are you saying Longley is close to an all-star today? Thats insanely stupid. Would he have done better in today's league? Maybe. Either way, he's still a below average center today just like he was back then playing a similar role like he did back then. Would be one thing if you mentioned someone like Rony Seikaly, Rik Smits, Sam Perkins, Vlade Divac, Hot Rod Williams, etc. But Luc Longley?

Dwight Howard being only a top 7-10 center in the 90s is a huge exaggeration. The only centers in the 90s who were ever arguably better then Howard of the last 4 years was Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, and Shaq. So at the very least he's in the top 5. And since we are mostly referring to the 2nd-three peat era, he would've been better then Ewing by at least 96, Robinson by 97 who got injured and was never the same afterwards, and Hakeem by either 97 or at least 98. So he's a top 2-4 center in the league during that time.

Yao when healthy was easily better then Smits. Better scorer, better rebounder, probably a better defender as well. Yao was one of the only players that could go one-on-one with Shaq on both ends and still hold his own.

Seriously, there are differences in the 90s and 00s with the center play being the largest difference. But come on people its really not that big regardless of rule changes, high school players, less big men, better athletes, etc. Dominant players today would dominate 15 years ago and vice-versa.
Another thing Guy. Im not comparing longley and gasol as far as rank. Im saying their skillset was very similar. Gasol wouldnt have evn sniffed an allstar birth back in the 90s. And the players you listed, seikley, perkins, etc who were middle of the pack centers back then, would be top 3-4 centers today.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:21 PM   #101
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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So I should look at Robinson, Hakeem, and Ewing's stats (which by the way do not favor those players vs. Howard for the years in question) to better educate myself and then ignore Yao and Smits' stats? By the way, where did I mention stats at all? I don't need stats to tell me anything. I watched all the players mentioned. Luc Longley was nothing more then a role player that a team could afford having start on their team as long as there was 3 HOFers alongside him.
Again, the same logic applies with howard. I think playing against better quality players on a nightly basis would hurt his production.

And im not saying luc longley is this stud center that was held back due to his role and competiton. But my god how can you overlook the fact that all the centers today are middle of the pack centers compared to the past? Gasol made the all-star game avg 15 ppg. That wouldnt happen back in the 90s.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:27 PM   #102
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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LL was a decent NBA Center. He greatly benefited while playing under the Triangle Offense.

1997-1998 was his best statistical season.

This moron doesn't know anything about NBA and B Ball.





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Old 05-07-2012, 11:32 PM   #103
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Again, the same logic applies with howard. I think playing against better quality players on a nightly basis would hurt his production.

And im not saying luc longley is this stud center that was held back due to his role and competiton. But my god how can you overlook the fact that all the centers today are middle of the pack centers compared to the past? Gasol made the all-star game avg 15 ppg. That wouldnt happen back in the 90s.

Not really. It might hurt his production a little, but its not like he would go from 20/15 to 17/10. Any difference would be insignificant especially when you take into account that this era is way more perimeter oriented meaning centers don't get as many touches. For the majority of nights, he will still be going up against players that are inferior to him.

You're overexagerating things. Kevin Duckworth and Rik Smits both made all-star games putting up like 16-17 ppg/7 rpg. Thats not much different then 15/9. And Kevin Duckworth and Rik Smits was worlds better then Luc Longley, just like Marc Gasol is.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:55 PM   #104
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Not really. It might hurt his production a little, but its not like he would go from 20/15 to 17/10. Any difference would be insignificant especially when you take into account that this era is way more perimeter oriented meaning centers don't get as many touches. For the majority of nights, he will still be going up against players that are inferior to him.

You're overexagerating things. Kevin Duckworth and Rik Smits both made all-star games putting up like 16-17 ppg/7 rpg. Thats not much different then 15/9. And Kevin Duckworth and Rik Smits was worlds better then Luc Longley, just like Marc Gasol is.
Rik Smits made the allstar game in 98 when he avg 17 and 7 in 29 minutes. Gasol avgas 15 in 36 min. Duckworth made 2 allstar games in the early 90s and late 80s. Not in the time were talking about.

Another thing. Im watching the clippers/grizzlies now. One thing i noticed that team do now a days, is put their best big low post defender on the oppositions best low post scoring big. Regardless of whether theyre power forwards or centers. Deandre Jordan the clippers best defender plays center, but is guarding zach randolf the grizzlies PF. Gasol doesnt even draw the best low post defender

Last edited by 97 bulls : 05-07-2012 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:03 AM   #105
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Default Re: Luc Longley?

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Another thing. Im watching the clippers/grizzlies now. One thing i noticed that team do now a days, is put their best big low post defender on the oppositions best low post scoring big. Regardless of whether theyre power forwards or centers. Deandre Jordan the clippers best defender plays center, but is guarding zach randolf the grizzlies PF. Gasol doesnt even draw the best low post defender

You do realize Zach Randolph only played 28 games this season and started 8.
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