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Old 02-24-2013, 01:03 PM   #181
pauk
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

For a guy to have his eyes ABOVE the rim means having your scalp about 7 inches above the 10 foot rim... and if you are 6'9" while doing so we are looking at around a 46" inch vertical.... didnt know Russell was that kindof an athlete lol
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:01 PM   #182
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

I realize that the burden of proof is a bit hard on those that believe Russell in this case because there's little video of anything that went on in the earlier eras of the NBA, but I have to cautiously side with the other side.

There's just too much room for doubt in a case where the main evidence comes from Russell himself. I can easily see him exaggerating (even if its only slightly) and that puts the entire statement at doubt.

It's not that I think athletes now are universally better than athletes then, or that I doubt Russell's own athletic prowess. In fact, I think the great athletes of today are no better than those of Russell's era (though I might lean towards saying the league is more deep athletically i.e. the 12th man now is more athletic than the 12th man then). And with all the incentive to demonstrate this ability today, and all forms of social media to capture and advertise it, no one has done it.

Extrapolating from Russell's height and vert and standing reach is enough to say it MAY have been possible for him to do it, but it doesn't prove anything. That's asking for too much faith on my part, and I just can't make that leap without more evidence from a non-biased source than can explain where and how they got the information and how it's accurate. Any old article won't cut it. And a statement from Russell or other old-timers isn't sufficient for me either.


inb4 Someone posts CavsFan's gif of Russell jumping over that dude. That's raw, but it doesn't prove his claim here.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #183
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

If he was the 7th best high jumper in the world then why is that so hard to believe? Contrary to popular belief the best jumpers in the world are, who would've thought, high jumpers and not NBA or And1 players.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:03 PM   #184
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floppy
If he was the 7th best high jumper in the world then why is that so hard to believe? Contrary to popular belief the best jumpers in the world are, who would've thought, high jumpers and not NBA or And1 players.

Does anyone know how closely the high jump and vertical leap are related? Clearly the high jump requires a much finer technique and mastery of mechanics to pull off than a simple vertical.

I'm sure there's a general trend (i.e. they both fall and rise together), but how much statistical predictive power does the high jump have on the vertical, and vice versa?

It doesn't strike me as obvious that because Russell could high jump that he could touch the backboard or get his eyes above the rim.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:08 PM   #185
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djahjaga
Does anyone know how closely the high jump and vertical leap are related? Clearly the high jump requires a much finer technique and mastery of mechanics to pull off than a simple vertical.

I'm sure there's a general trend (i.e. they both fall and rise together), but how much statistical predictive power does the high jump have on the vertical, and vice versa?

It doesn't strike me as obvious that because Russell could high jump that he could touch the backboard or get his eyes above the rim.
Bill Russell had awful technique though, he got by on raw athleticism and tied the Gold Medalist of the 1956 Olympics in a summer meet in the months coming up to the Olympics. Bill Russell was literally world class with his athleticism - we're not talking about above average - we're talking a top 10 World Class leaper on the planet in his day. His 6-9 and 1/4" PR (again on crude raw athleticism with terrible jumping form) would have been good enough to tie for a Bronze Medal in the Olympic field that year. He was expected to clear 7 feet if he'd worked at it as his discipline - IE match the world record. In the pre-fosbury flop days those numbers are huge.

Last edited by CavaliersFTW : 02-24-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:23 PM   #186
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavaliersFTW
Bill Russell had awful technique though, he got by on raw athleticism and tied the Gold Medalist of the 1956 Olympics in a summer meet in the months coming up to the Olympics. Bill Russell was literally world class with his athleticism - we're not talking about above average - we're talking a top 10 World Class leaper on the planet in his day. His 6-9 and 1/4" PR (again on crude raw athleticism with terrible jumping form) would have been good enough to tie for a Bronze Medal in the Olympic field that year. He was expected to clear 7 feet if he'd worked at it as his discipline - IE match the world record. In the pre-fosbury flop days those numbers are huge.

Bad technique or not, it seems to me it requires a different kind of skill than just pure, upward vertical. You need to be agile and able to contort your body, even if your technique blows. These are things I couldn't imagine doing even at the tamest of heights, and Russell was clearly naturally talented at these at least to a degree.

I do understand your point about the Fosbury Flop, so I won't make you repeat that for the trillionth time haha I feel like people are just skipping over that...
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:32 PM   #187
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

This is simply another case of people exaggerating the talents of legends from the past. They want their heroes to seem like mythical figures, so they believe a bunch of ridiculous claims about them.

It's no different than people saying little 135 pound Bruce Lee would destroy Muhammad Ali and saying he is so fast that he could snatch a quarter from somebody's open palm and leave a penny behind. It's all fantasy to make their heroes seem like super heroes.

It's all non-sense.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:47 PM   #188
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
For a guy to have his eyes ABOVE the rim means having your scalp about 7 inches above the 10 foot rim... and if you are 6'9" while doing so we are looking at around a 46" inch vertical.... didnt know Russell was that kindof an athlete lol

I was about to note that Russell was a bit taller when he played in the NBA (6'10" stockings height is a number I've seen cited a lot, so he'd be closer to 6'11" effective playing height), though in 'Second Wind' he notes that he first looked down on the rim earlier on in his playing days (I forget if it was during high school, his time with that traveling all-star team after graduating, or early in college). I'm not sure if he'd need his scalp to be 7 inches above the rim, since he didn't necessarily have to be looking down at the basket, just slightly above eye level with the rim, which means he probably only needed his scalp to clear by around 3-4 inches (or maybe I'm wrong...again it depends how big his head is, maybe someone can find a good photo to ascertain this). I think it's safe to say he was without question over 40", but 46" (while it wouldn't shock me) is probably a tiny bit high IMO.

Of course, I'm sure CavsFTW will have some great highlights in his new video which will help us get a better idea of where he stood. Either way, it's nice to have discussions of Russ on this board.

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:07 PM   #189
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHILA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-f_gVh9h9Q

1:08 mark

"My vertical was I could get my eyes above the rim. When I jumped up straight I could get my eyes above the rim & I could touch the top of the backboard."
I can get my eyes above the rim too, without jumping. What I do is, just look at the top of the backboard, and my eyes are over the level of the rim.
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Old 11-10-2015, 06:46 PM   #190
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap



That's around between 37-40 inches . I think he's max vertical 41 .
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:00 PM   #191
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

to realize that westbrook is far shorter and has a poverty 36.5 inch vertical yet everyone claims athletes are far better today. LMAO
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:21 PM   #192
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by theaussieguy
to realize that westbrook is far shorter and has a poverty 36.5 inch vertical yet everyone claims athletes are far better today. LMAO

True.

But Wilt and Bill are rare cause their athleticism coming from their athletic backgrounds . An example ; Elgin Baylor is a good athlete from 60's but as good as Westbrook,Kobe,Shaq etc. .
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Old 12-15-2015, 05:55 PM   #193
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Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

How much do they weigh Plowking? How can you not factor this in, YOU LIFT!?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I dont think you have one bit of evidence saying he cant...other than you not thinking he could. Is it an impossibly high jump? No. Travis Outlaw is shorter than Russell and ive seen him riiiiiiight there just short of the top of the backboard in the one attempt ive seen him make to get there.

And I think we often forget something on these things. We are talking about 1955 or so. All NBA rims/boackboards were not the same until well into the 60s. They were pretty close but there are stories of coaches having them tested all the time because they looked off. They didnt have the same accuracy they do now. And thats in the NBA. You think every middle school, high school, college, and playground backboard met current NBA regulation height? I dont.

If at some point in their lives they ran into a goal that would have them only need to go up...46 inches or so? I have no problems accepting that legit world class high jumpers could do it. I dont think so many people are just fabricating it.

Besides its a 48 inch jump for most bigmen and its not like there arent guys known to get that high. NBA.com listen Mcdyess one step vertical at 47 inches for years due to a test a lot of people are supposed to have watched. And even with every moment of his career on high quality tape ive never seen him get nearly that high. I doubt ive seen him get 40 inches in a game.

Doesnt mean he never did. Legit proven world class high jumpers getting into the upper 40s is not one bit shocking to me even if its 1955. The foot difference in the high jump isnt due to evolution asm uch as how they teach them to jump. Ive seen Russell jump forward and clear like 6'8''. You will never see anyone jumping like that these days because you just dont jump as high. Guys Bill jumped with and against beating at times reached 7 feet and up as time went.

Touching the top of the backboard is no doubt often a myth but there are some easier to believe than others. A 215-220(entering the NBA he was skinny) 6'10.5'' in shoes world class high jumper with long arms?

Ive only seen like 3 people attempt it on film. And 2 of them(Outlaw and James white) were almost there and both were shorter than Bill. Am I to believe that they got the highest in world history in the 4 total attempts I saw them make?

Of course not. And if I assume someone got higher...why wouldnt I assume someone bigger than them who was the #2 ranked high jumper in America wasnt one of them 1-2 times? Or that he never ran into a backboard 2 inches off in a gym in Alabama working out?

I dont think ill just assume hes lying because I didnt see it. World class 6-10 and 7-1 high jumpers should be on the short list of people given the benefit of the doubt if there are a gang of people saying they could reach heights that are well within the human potential to reach.


I don't agree with every post this guy makes but I swear he's one of the most sensible/unbiased posters on this board





Lets say Russell is 6'10, 225, with a 9'3 standing reach, the same as dwight
He'd need a 9 Inch vertical leap to touch the rim and 15 Inch leap to dunk considering that you have to jump about 6 inches over the rim to dunk. To accomplish that you have to leave the ground at a speed of 2.73 m/s vertically no matter how much you weigh. You need a force of 2383 Newtons (535.72 pounds of force)against the ground based on your weight to reach that speed assuming you bent your knees at an angle of 60 degrees. The force depends on how much you bent your knees.

Shaq at 7'0, 300, with a 9'5 standing reach
He'd need a 7 Inch vertical leap to touch the rim and 13 Inch leap to dunk considering that you have to jump about 6 inches over the rim to dunk. To accomplish that you have to leave the ground at a speed of 2.54 m/s vertically no matter how much you weigh. You need a force of 2670 Newtons(600.24 pounds of force) against the ground based on your weight to reach that speed assuming you bent your knees at an angle of 60 degrees. The force depends on how much you bent your knees.


Would I say Russell geting a bit higher is more impressive? No, the fact Shaq could get that high at that weight is spooky as ***. But to just outright dismiss that someone a lot lighter, with a standing reach just a tad shorter couldn't possibly jump higher is....Silly
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