Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-27-2010, 04:04 PM   #31
NuggetsFan
Nuggets/Avs/Broncos.
 
NuggetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NuggetNation.
Posts: 9,485
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

I think it's just one of those things that get's exaggerated with time. It's hard to believe something without proof but I guess you can't completely right off all of it. Some of the things said are clear bullshit tho.
NuggetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 05:58 PM   #32
MMKM
Local High School Star
 
MMKM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,352
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Ok, well if you just look at factual data, the highest measurement EVER on official record for the NBA Pre-Draft dating back to 1989 is 12'5 by Shaquille O'Neal. So that is the standing record for the last 20 + years. (Also, keep in mind that the talent pool for the NBA has grown exponentially in this time period as players are brought in from all over the world). So in a globalized game, over the last 20 years, 12'5 is the official record.

Touching 13 feet would beat that record by about 5%. That sounds possible for one blessed individual who only comes around every 100 years
, but the problem is, TOO MANY legends claim to have hit that mark. Everyone has heard the story about David Thompson "making change" on top of the backboard, and Earl "The Goat" Manigault at Rucker Park, so including Wilt and Russell that would put 4 players at the 13 foot mark in the 1960's. So either the human race is regressing over the last 20 years, or the backboard is higher than it used to be, or the legends are just flat out liars, but it just doesn't add up. To claim that that many people hit a mark that is drastically higher than the highest mark officially recorded is a false claim in terms of statistical probabilities it is close to impossible.
MMKM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:09 PM   #33
MMKM
Local High School Star
 
MMKM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,352
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Plus, if any of these guys actually COULD touch the top of the backboard, shouldn't there be some sort of concrete evidence (and I don't mean eyewitness accounts, if we went off eyewitness accounts, Bigfoot would exist, Jesus's face would be popping up on everything, etc, I'm talking about real hard evidence). Not one photograph? Video tape? I've seen video tape of Wilt since he was in high school, so video DID exist. If any of these guys could actually do it, don't you think someone at some point would have said, "hey, nobody's gonna believe this we need to get this on camera?" Just a little hard to swallow.
MMKM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:11 PM   #34
Papaya Petee
GORTATTTTT
 
Papaya Petee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chicopee, MA
Posts: 4,096
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

PlowKing destroying them.
Papaya Petee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:13 PM   #35
Papaya Petee
GORTATTTTT
 
Papaya Petee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Chicopee, MA
Posts: 4,096
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Yeah guys, Oscar Robertson could touch the top of the backboard with his elbow. He's from the old days. He even said he could.
Papaya Petee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:16 PM   #36
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,836
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
OK, so athletes have regressed since the 60's. Yeah....the centers have that era could jump higher than the 5'6"-5'8" dunk champs like Spud Webb and Nate Robinson.

Let me ask you this...how many Shaq's have we seen in the NBA since 1993? And, how many centers today are more physically blessed than Shaq, say in 2000?

Of course the answer is, there has only been ONE Shaq. Same applies with Wilt. There has NEVER been a seven-footer so blessed with speed and leaping ability as Chamberlain. The man was a sprinter and a high jump champ (among his MANY track events) for cryingoutloud!

KBlaze had some great comments, but let me expand one of them...

Wilt played with and against MANY NBA players. He played with several NBA coaches, and against MANY. There were MANY in the media who covered him. Now, not all of them cared for Wilt. YET, find me ONE that has stepped up and said that Wilt was not capable of virtually everything he has been given credit for.

I only read those several anti-Wilt posters here, who go out of their way to disparage his accomplishments. They simply can't believe that ONE man could DOMINATE an ENTIRE league, the way that Wilt did. I have read a ridiculous comment that Wilt played on a losing team, that only won 31 games, and they essentially blamed WILT! YET, did that poster acknowledge these facts: Wilt led the NBA in scoring at 44.8 ppg. He led the league in rebounding at 24.6. He set a then record for FG% at .528 (in a league that shot .441) He also led the league in Win Shares. AND, he recorded the HIGHEST PER in NBA HISTORY. Not only that, but the rest of teammates, arguably the absolute worst cast of clowns ever assembled, shot a collective .412 from the field...which was WAY below the last place team at .427.

These anti-Chamberlain posters rip him for leading the league in assists. They rip him for "only" two titles (despite him narrowly missing FIVE more.) They slap him for his stats because of era or competition, but they never acknlowedge that it was ONLY Wilt set those records. They won't acknowledge him not only outplaying virtually EVERY opposing center, or downright DOMINATING them...a list that includes Kerr, Lovelette, Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, Hayes, Unseld, Cowens, Lanier, Lucas, Russell AND Kareem.

They won't accept that HE shattered all kinds of records when HE played...and NO ONE has come CLOSE since.

They can't believe that a 7-1 man with a 7-8 wingspan, and who was a highjump champ, as well as a competitve long jumper, would have a 48" vertical, even though the world record is 61". Instead they find some completely false article which claimed that Wilt had a 24" vertical (which Psileas ripped to shreds BTW.)

They can't believe that a 7-1 man could bench press 500 lbs, even though there are numerous articles that credit him with MORE.

No, we are not supposed to believe all of that despite the fact that there are SO MANY amazing physical feats of his PLASTERED all over the internet...AND, virtually NO respected player, coach, or writer who actually WITNESSED Chamberlain, has ever DISPUTED them.

Last edited by jlauber : 07-27-2010 at 06:24 PM.
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:20 PM   #37
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,836
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMKM
Plus, if any of these guys actually COULD touch the top of the backboard, shouldn't there be some sort of concrete evidence (and I don't mean eyewitness accounts, if we went off eyewitness accounts, Bigfoot would exist, Jesus's face would be popping up on everything, etc, I'm talking about real hard evidence). Not one photograph? Video tape? I've seen video tape of Wilt since he was in high school, so video DID exist. If any of these guys could actually do it, don't you think someone at some point would have said, "hey, nobody's gonna believe this we need to get this on camera?" Just a little hard to swallow.

And conversley, find me ONE in which he ATTEMPTED to touch the top of the backboard, and couldn't.

Furthermore, as I alluded to above, find me ONE respected player, coach, or member of the media, who actually WITNESSED Wilt play, that has DISPUTED that he DID touch the top of the backboard.
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:28 PM   #38
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,836
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
OK, so athletes have regressed since the 60's. Yeah....the centers have that era could jump higher than the 5'6"-5'8" dunk champs like Spud Webb and Nate Robinson.

Incidently Calvin Murphy, back in the 60's was dunking at 5-8.

http://apse.dallasnews.com/contest19...hartford2.html
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:29 PM   #39
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 12,025
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Jesus christ, the guy types one sentence and you come back with a ****ing novel. Get over yourself. You're going to take RUSSELL's word for it when he's speaking about himself? His ego is as big as anybodies, of course he's going to embellish to get his point across.

Oh yes because when its someone else saying they saw things that makes them believed. Ive seen Oscar robertson and another guy both claim the ysaw Wilt do a dunk he called the Hammer and Nails before a game as a Globetrotter. Tuck the ball under his armpit and punch it through with his other hand. 2 people said it. Neither of them Wilt. You believe it? I doubt it. because the source matters less than the story and how possible it is.

And I dont struggle to believe that 2 guys near(one above) 7 feet with long arms...one a legit world class high jumper the other an NCAA champ high jumper...can get up there. Especially not in the 50s before all backboards were regulated. I dont know if he means the backboard at Boston garden or a backboard on a playground in San Francisco. I dont have enough information. I can only go off what ive seen.

And ive SEEN Travis outlaw and James White inches from the top...both of them shorter than the people in question and neither of them the best off 2 feet. Ive seen a guy online in a red football jersey doing a vertical test(you know..jump up and smack the bars) next to a backboard get his hand right under the top. And he damn sure wasnt 7'1''. Ive seen Michael Wilson and Dwight dunk on 12+ foot goals with room to spare. Not jumping their highest. Jumping to catch a ball.

What evidence do I have that two super tall and lanky high jump champs couldnt do on backboards I didnt see when ive seen 2 people smaller than them get within an few inches of it....on goals I know were legit?

There are more issues than if they are just lying or not. There is evidence of people jumping high enough to do it. Of people at or near their height jumping the height to do it(Mcdyess....Dwight...Larry Nance..Josh Smith). Why should I believe a guy is lying about it when he was 6'10'' long armed and a world class olympic team spot offered HIGH JUMPER?

Do I believe Outlaw and James White jumped the highest anyone on earth near their size ever have? No.

Do I have evidence in the least to support that Russell couldnt get the 3-4 more inches he would need to get there? No.

Forgive me for explaining myself instead of just saying "Lol, no he cant!" based on the nothing any of you have to prove he couldnt.

I just say its possible and leave open the possibility it wasnt on a regulation backboard.

That is perfectly reasonable to me.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:37 PM   #40
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,836
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

One more time...

the fastest NFL football EVER? Bob Hayes, who was playing in the 60's. Now, some will argue that he ran a 10.0 100 meters, and the world record is by Huissein Bolt at 9.59 (incidently, it is impossible for a 6-5 man to run a 9.59, right?) HOWEVER, I can guarantee you that had Hayes had the same surface, same type of shoes, and the same training, that he would have run much faster than a 10.0.

Has anyone duplicated Mantle's verifiable HR distances?

http://www.themick.com/10homers.html

Nolan Ryan was clocked at 101 MPH with a SLOW gun in 1974, after having thrown 162 pitches. Slow gun you ask?

http://www.efastball.com/baseball/st...major-leagues/

Speaking of long jumps...Bob Beamon hit 29' 2" in 1968. The world record TODAY stands at 29' 4".
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 06:58 PM   #41
Court Vision
#KnicksTape
 
Court Vision's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Garden
Posts: 686
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

I always forget, Wilt could bench press 650 pounds without warming up and Russell could dunk on a 15 foot hoop.



I always take these stories with a grain of salt.
Court Vision is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 07:19 PM   #42
rfoster24
Decent playground baller
 
rfoster24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 376
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
So we're supposed to believe, Russell could touch higher than Shaq, who at his pre draft measurements recorded a higher vertical than Wade's, Kobe's and Hardaway's...
So, Shaq, who's had a higher vertical than all the wingmen he's played with, somehow couldn't touch higher than Russell. Though because Russell said it, we should believe it?

If you mean by a higher vertical than all of those guys a lower vertical than all of those guys, then yes he had a higher vertical than all of those guys.

Chacha don't lie my *****.

www.chacha.com/question/how-high-is-shaq's-vertical

Shaq 32"
Kobe 38"
Wade 36"
Penny Hardaway. couldn't find.

Last edited by rfoster24 : 07-27-2010 at 07:27 PM.
rfoster24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 07:37 PM   #43
ShaqAttack3234
7-time NBA All-Star
 
ShaqAttack3234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,966
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlauber
Let me ask you this...how many Shaq's have we seen in the NBA since 1993? And, how many centers today are more physically blessed than Shaq, say in 2000?

Of course the answer is, there has only been ONE Shaq. Same applies with Wilt. There has NEVER been a seven-footer so blessed with speed and leaping ability as Chamberlain. The man was a sprinter and a high jump champ (among his MANY track events) for cryingoutloud!

KBlaze had some great comments, but let me expand one of them...

Wilt played with and against MANY NBA players. He played with several NBA coaches, and against MANY. There were MANY in the media who covered him. Now, not all of them cared for Wilt. YET, find me ONE that has stepped up and said that Wilt was not capable of virtually everything he has been given credit for.

I only read those several anti-Wilt posters here, who go out of their way to disparage his accomplishments. They simply can't believe that ONE man could DOMINATE an ENTIRE league, the way that Wilt did. I have read a ridiculous comment that Wilt played on a losing team, that only won 31 games, and they essentially blamed WILT! YET, did that poster acknowledge these facts: Wilt led the NBA in scoring at 44.8 ppg. He led the league in rebounding at 24.6. He set a then record for FG% at .528 (in a league that shot .441) He also led the league in Win Shares. AND, he recorded the HIGHEST PER in NBA HISTORY. Not only that, but the rest of teammates, arguably the absolute worst cast of clowns ever assembled, shot a collective .412 from the field...which was WAY below the last place team at .427.

These anti-Chamberlain posters rip him for leading the league in assists. They rip him for "only" two titles (despite him narrowly missing FIVE more.) They slap him for his stats because of era or competition, but they never acknlowedge that it was ONLY Wilt set those records. They won't acknowledge him not only outplaying virtually EVERY opposing center, or downright DOMINATING them...a list that includes Kerr, Lovelette, Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, Hayes, Unseld, Cowens, Lanier, Lucas, Russell AND Kareem.

They won't accept that HE shattered all kinds of records when HE played...and NO ONE has come CLOSE since.

They can't believe that a 7-1 man with a 7-8 wingspan, and who was a highjump champ, as well as a competitve long jumper, would have a 48" vertical, even though the world record is 61". Instead they find some completely false article which claimed that Wilt had a 24" vertical (which Psileas ripped to shreds BTW.)

They can't believe that a 7-1 man could bench press 500 lbs, even though there are numerous articles that credit him with MORE.

No, we are not supposed to believe all of that despite the fact that there are SO MANY amazing physical feats of his PLASTERED all over the internet...AND, virtually NO respected player, coach, or writer who actually WITNESSED Chamberlain, has ever DISPUTED them.

The problem is, we have literally no footage to support any of these claims so we must take them with a grain of salt.

The difference with Shaq is that his vertical was officially recorded at the draft camp and we have footage like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m34s where his head is damn close to the rim off a standing jump and freakish plays like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEWO5ypOPM

Or a 28 year old, 340 pound Shaq(who I don't think could jump as high as the 20 year old slimmer version) getting his head at or near rim level. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s I mean his shoulder is more than halfway up the net!

But the highest I've seen a center jump is Dwight Howard who had his standing reach measured at 9'3.5" and he touched 12'6" on live TV and who knows if that's his max? That means he has a minimum 38.5" vertical.

But it's not just once in a decade athletes. If we believe the stories about Wilt, Russell, Gus Johnson, Earl Manigault, Connie Hawkins ect. then those would be the 5 most athletic basketball players ever, all having played 40+ years ago and nobody since then has come close to their claimed or rumored athletic feats, none of which are officially documented on film or in the record book(no I'm not talking about Wilt's stats, I'm referring to his vertical).
ShaqAttack3234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 09:14 PM   #44
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,836
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
The problem is, we have literally no footage to support any of these claims so we must take them with a grain of salt.

The difference with Shaq is that his vertical was officially recorded at the draft camp and we have footage like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26oszd3z9Ns#t=0m34s where his head is damn close to the rim off a standing jump and freakish plays like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoEWO5ypOPM

Or a 28 year old, 340 pound Shaq(who I don't think could jump as high as the 20 year old slimmer version) getting his head at or near rim level. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EefJHAWigvY#t=6m11s I mean his shoulder is more than halfway up the net!

But the highest I've seen a center jump is Dwight Howard who had his standing reach measured at 9'3.5" and he touched 12'6" on live TV and who knows if that's his max? That means he has a minimum 38.5" vertical.

But it's not just once in a decade athletes. If we believe the stories about Wilt, Russell, Gus Johnson, Earl Manigault, Connie Hawkins ect. then those would be the 5 most athletic basketball players ever, all having played 40+ years ago and nobody since then has come close to their claimed or rumored athletic feats, none of which are officially documented on film or in the record book(no I'm not talking about Wilt's stats, I'm referring to his vertical).

I can't speak for some of those guys. David Thompson reportedly hit 12' 6" I believe, which is completely possible, since we have athletes' today hitting 50+" verticals. BUT, it was common knowledge in the NBA in the Chamberlain era that he was capable of touching the top of the backboard (and with Russell's WORLD-CLASS leaping ability...probably him as well.) What amazes me are those that DON'T believe it. A 7-1 ATHLETE, with a 7-8 wingspan, who was only a few inches off the WORLD RECORD at the time, and who was also a LONG JUMPER and a SPRINTER...touching the top of the backboard was almost a certainty. I think the real question would be...just how much HIGHER he could get?

I actually marvel at his shot-blocking footage, in which he approaches 12 ft, with a standing vertical, at over 300 lbs, at age 34, and on a surgically repaired knee. One only need the several block of Kareem's sky-hook (of which he blocked 15 just in the '72 WCF's.) Incidently, there are photos of both Kareem and Gilmore, in college, with their heads at rim height...AND yet Chamberlain routinely outjumped both...and at 11+ years older.

Once again...he was perhaps the strongest man to ever play in the NBA (and clearly, had he had all the benefits of today's generation, he would have been even stronger.) He was certainly regarded almost universally as the strongest man in the NBA when he played. Not only that, but there were some promient sports luminaries who claimed he was among the strongest men in the world at the time. You have read Cherry's book...he interviewed a well-known power-lifter that was known to have been benched over 500 lbs...and that guy claimed that Wilt was the strongest man he knew. I have given an eye-witness account of Wilt benching 465 lbs at age 59! There is a now well-known SI article in 1964 with Wilt benching over 400 lbs...easily. And that was long before he hit his peak.

Speed? He outran the fastest Kansas City running back in a tryout in the mid-60's. In his own book, he claims to have outraced Jim Brown, TWICE, at a party with several witnesses. Brown was a 9.6 100 yard dasher. Alex Hannum claims that Wilt was quicker, end-to-end on a basketball court, than Al Attles (and later Hal Greer.) He was near world-class in the 440.

Leaping ability? Well, you have read all the numbers and quotes. I found it fascinating that he outleaped all of the '74 Conquistadors to get a ball lodged up high in a guidewire. He was in a suit-and-tie, and was 37 years old. There is a photo in his first book in which his waist is at the top of a volleyball net...some 8 ft. And remember, Wilt was a PART-TIME track star. His own coach believed that he was capable of a 7-0 high-jump had he focused on that sport. Needless to say, IMHO, no other NBA player has ever reached the height that Wilt did.

Not only all of that, but Wilt gets accused of "embellishing"...yet, the vast majority of his staggering physical feats are told by many others. And one more time...of all of the many basketball players, coaches, and members of the media that actually witnessed Chamberlain's incredible feats...where are those that dispute them?
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2010, 09:30 PM   #45
jlauber
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,836
Default Re: Bill Russell Vertical Leap

Ultimately, Wilt, among other's proves that the best athletes, in their respective sports, are not necessarily TODAY's athletes.

I have mentioned it before, but is there anyone today, who was more dominant than Shaq in 2000? Anyone more dominant than MJ in 1990? Anyone better today than Hakeem in 1995?

So, continuing those points...Kareem in '72, or Wilt in '67. BOTH, in their PRIMES, ... IMHO, would be the best TODAY, as well.
jlauber is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:29 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy