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Old 08-12-2010, 09:12 PM   #16
Nastradamus
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Default Re: T-Mac???

Quote:
Originally Posted by dd24
The bottom line is if Detroit lets Tay go for nothing they will be rebuilding much longer. Potentially a high lottery pick can be worth a gamble but I'd rather go for a for sure deal where we know what we are getting. Detroit is right about at the cap so there is no reason to shed payroll. If Tay signs somewhere else next year then we'll have cap room to sign someone as well. I'm still not for trading him for nothing. If we were going to let someone go for next to nothing it would be Rip before Tay.

We're losing him for nothign anyways. Its time to move on to Daye,Summers and even Jerebko at SF. Mcgrady for the short term while those guys are green. I don't think he can bring us a C, so the best we are going to get is eitehr salary relief or a bad contract. We might be able to pull off Kaman or Biedrins, but it doesn't appear those guys will be moved.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: T-Mac???

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Originally Posted by Nastradamus
We're losing him for nothign anyways. Its time to move on to Daye,Summers and even Jerebko at SF. Mcgrady for the short term while those guys are green. I don't think he can bring us a C, so the best we are going to get is eitehr salary relief or a bad contract. We might be able to pull off Kaman or Biedrins, but it doesn't appear those guys will be moved.

I think Tay is the kind of guy who could be a Piston for life. I'm not certain he would leave Detroit.
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: T-Mac???

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Originally Posted by dd24
I think Tay is the kind of guy who could be a Piston for life. I'm not certain he would leave Detroit.

Maybe, but I think he latches on to a contender for a 3-4 year MLE deal next year. I wouldn't mind keeping him necessarily, but there just isn't room for both Rip and Tay anymore. I wonder if we could get Rashard for Tay and CV. I think his deal is non guaranteed next year. He'd be nice for a year as a Charlie fill in and then we get out of that deal.
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: T-Mac???

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Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Maybe, but I think he latches on to a contender for a 3-4 year MLE deal next year. I wouldn't mind keeping him necessarily, but there just isn't room for both Rip and Tay anymore. I wonder if we could get Rashard for Tay and CV. I think his deal is non guaranteed next year. He'd be nice for a year as a Charlie fill in and then we get out of that deal.

I don't know if Orlando is looking to necessarily shed that contract though. I think they are more in a win now mode.

Tay is worth more than the full MLE. This is his last chance at a big contract so I'm sure he's going to want at least 10 million. When you look at what a lot of guys got paid this offseason, depending on the next CBA, I think he can get around that. I guess it depends on who has cap space next offseason and what their needs are. There will certainly be a demand for Tay next year though. The only other SF who will be better I can think of is Carmello. If he takes the Denver extension Tay stands to make quite a bit in a FA class that isn't all that strong. The best thing is, Detroit can still pay him more than anyone else. He has his family and home there and the fans love him. Joe D has said before that if anyone were to be a Piston for life it would be Tay. Granted that was a couple of years ago, but I think there's still something to that.

I do agree there just isn't room for all the SG's and SF's on this team though. A move must be made. I kind of feel like we are in a position similiar to what Golden State was with all their SG's they had.

I saw one person say Rip for Eddy Curry. I laughed at first but when I thought about it, there was a little sense to the deal. If the season starts and he gets some minutes and can be the guy he was in 2007 he can actually put up some decent numbers. He has an expiring contract too so it's not a huge gamble and he probably will try this year since I'm sure he's looking to get paid again. The thing I was thinking though is if Curry actually played well, NY still needs a C to put next to Amare anyhow so why would they necessarily trade him. Anyway, if we traded for him we would have two expirers in Tay and Curry which would give us a ton of cap space potentially. We'll need some cash to resign Stuckey, Jerebko, and possibly Dajuan Summers too (all are restricted). But let's look at the list of potential FA's...

Tyson Chandler (Unrestricted)
Joakim Noah (Restricted)
Yao Ming (Unrestricted)
Marc Gasol (Restricted)
Zach Randolph (Unrestricted)
Greg Oden (Restricted)
Joel Pryzbilla (Unrestricted)
Samuel Dalembert (Unrestricted)

If we had money there's a few on that list we could land that would be good for Detroit. It might make sense to have Tay stay around and trade for another expiring contract. Add one of those better guys on that list and another good draft pick and we'd be back in business.

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Old 08-13-2010, 04:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: T-Mac???

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Originally Posted by dd24
I don't know if Orlando is looking to necessarily shed that contract though. I think they are more in a win now mode.

Tay is worth more than the full MLE. This is his last chance at a big contract so I'm sure he's going to want at least 10 million. When you look at what a lot of guys got paid this offseason, depending on the next CBA, I think he can get around that. I guess it depends on who has cap space next offseason and what their needs are. There will certainly be a demand for Tay next year though. The only other SF who will be better I can think of is Carmello. If he takes the Denver extension Tay stands to make quite a bit in a FA class that isn't all that strong. The best thing is, Detroit can still pay him more than anyone else. He has his family and home there and the fans love him. Joe D has said before that if anyone were to be a Piston for life it would be Tay. Granted that was a couple of years ago, but I think there's still something to that.

I do agree there just isn't room for all the SG's and SF's on this team though. A move must be made. I kind of feel like we are in a position similiar to what Golden State was with all their SG's they had.

I saw one person say Rip for Eddy Curry. I laughed at first but when I thought about it, there was a little sense to the deal. If the season starts and he gets some minutes and can be the guy he was in 2007 he can actually put up some decent numbers. He has an expiring contract too so it's not a huge gamble and he probably will try this year since I'm sure he's looking to get paid again. The thing I was thinking though is if Curry actually played well, NY still needs a C to put next to Amare anyhow so why would they necessarily trade him. Anyway, if we traded for him we would have two expirers in Tay and Curry which would give us a ton of cap space potentially. We'll need some cash to resign Stuckey, Jerebko, and possibly Dajuan Summers too (all are restricted). But let's look at the list of potential FA's...

Tyson Chandler (Unrestricted)
Joakim Noah (Restricted)
Yao Ming (Unrestricted)
Marc Gasol (Restricted)
Zach Randolph (Unrestricted)
Greg Oden (Restricted)
Joel Pryzbilla (Unrestricted)
Samuel Dalembert (Unrestricted)

If we had money there's a few on that list we could land that would be good for Detroit. It might make sense to have Tay stay around and trade for another expiring contract. Add one of those better guys on that list and another good draft pick and we'd be back in business.

Out of those big men i would rather have Marc Gasol more than anyone else. Hes still young and has lots of potential. I doubt Memphis are gonna give him up though because they dont need a guy like Hamilton or Prince right now.
I wouldnt take the risk on a guy like Yao.
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: T-Mac???

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
Out of those big men i would rather have Marc Gasol more than anyone else. Hes still young and has lots of potential. I doubt Memphis are gonna give him up though because they dont need a guy like Hamilton or Prince right now.
I wouldnt take the risk on a guy like Yao.

Marc Gasol would be one of the guys I like the most on that list too. I wasn't talking about trading for him though. I was talking about trading Rip for an expirer and then letting that expirer and Tay's contract expire. Then we would have the money to potentially outbid a team like Memphis for Marc Gasol and get him as a restricted FA. Hopefully Detroit would still have some money left over to make some more moves too.
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:47 AM   #22
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Default Re: T-Mac???

What kind of contract would memphis NOT match on gasol? Maybe a max, you know they'll match above 10 per year
----
What about krstic
----
Pistons should make an offer on fesenko
----
Why go halfway on a rebuild?
Ny gets- rip + maxiell + ty lawson
-
Den gets- ben g + villenueva + daye
-
Det gets- e curry + kmart + ny te + den 1st
----
Move forward w stuckey, jerebko, monroe and 40 + mill in expires and a good te + picks- you keep gordon + villenueva and they just keep the team good enough to not get a good pick
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Old 08-14-2010, 01:55 AM   #23
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Default Re: T-Mac???

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
What kind of contract would memphis NOT match on gasol? Maybe a max, you know they'll match above 10 per year
----
What about krstic
----
Pistons should make an offer on fesenko
----
Why go halfway on a rebuild?
Ny gets- rip + maxiell + ty lawson
-
Den gets- ben g + villenueva + daye
-
Det gets- e curry + kmart + ny te + den 1st
----
Move forward w stuckey, jerebko, monroe and 40 + mill in expires and a good te + picks- you keep gordon + villenueva and they just keep the team good enough to not get a good pick

There's always a price. Who knows what the market will look like for next year so it's impossible to say what he gets offered at this point. All I know is having Tay and Curry drop off the books Detroit would be one of the teams with the most cap space.

That trade you put together would make Detroit a lottery team for years. Right now we're going to be forced to keep Gordon around. Nobody will want that contract. He's going to have to be our 6th man. I actually like Charlies contract. I just want him to produce more this year. With all the hype the Pistons have been making about him I really expect him to be a key player this year. If not, send him packing and let Monroe play. We still need to see what he can do during the season though.
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Old 08-14-2010, 03:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: T-Mac???

Detroit could get an expirer for ben gordon- I wouldve figured you would like starting over- so trading gordon + villenueva + daye would make you a lottery team for years but you see with them you are what? A contendor? A playoff contendor? My only thought was stay out of the middle of the pack, if you are going to be bad be really bad- I would think to unload rip + maxiells contracts it would be worth turning bg and cv into expirers
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:07 PM   #25
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Default Re: T-Mac???

I understand what you're saying about being a mediocre team. I've also said the same things before. It is really hard to be a mediocre team and get better because typically you don't have cap space and you aren't getting great draft picks. I kind of view Detroit as the scenario Chicago was in the past few years though. They were a good team but they needed a big man. I don't think completely gutting the roster is the answer because Detroit doesn't have someone like Wade to recruit other superstars. I think they need to keep some of their good young pieces and clear cap room. If Tay and another big contract expired that would give Detroit plenty of flexibility. They don't need to do more than that in my opinion.

We've got too many question marks right now. Is Monroe going to be as good as we hope? Will Charlie step up like we think he can? Is Stuckey the type of player to build a team around? What does this team look like healthy? Without seeing this team play we won't know for sure what it's capable of. Detroit has players at every positon. While the C position is weak, we still have players there. Until we see who is going to step up, we won't know the correct move to make. Right now Joe D is the only one who has seen what all these guys have been doing over the summer.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: T-Mac???

Yeah, we have potentiial, but definitely big question marks. Mostly the PF position, health and the ability of Stuckey to be the lead dog. I have a lot of faith in Stuckey, but he definitely needs to have a big year to get people off his back and get this team winning games. C could be a weakness or strength depending on how fast Monroe develops and how healthy and energized Wallace is feeling. Villanueva,Jerebko both have the pure talent to be starters and Jerebko is intriguing as well. JJ probably isn't a starting 4 though, lets face it. CV and Maxiell both have big issues though, as we all know. Charlie is basically lazy, especially on defense, but all around really. He could be another Sheed if he worked at it, but I doubt he changes who he is. At the worst he's a dangerous weapon off the bench, a longer, more athletic Al Harrington. Maxiell's height and tendency to bring the ball down are his biggest issues. He needs to find a consistent jumper and he can be our Udonis Haslem. His defensive metrics are usually amongst the best IIRC.

Along the perimeter, I have few worries. We don't have a superstar, but we have 4 guys capable of making an All Star team IMO. Argue whether you want about Ben Gordon being an 11 million dollar player, but at this point he is on the team and that is valuable. He is a damn good player to be coming off of your bench. I think Ben and Tayshaun are particularly movitvated to have bounce back seasons. Ben wants to prove his worth and Tay is in a contract year. He was playing damn good when he came back from injury last year. Bynum is a stud as far as backup PGs go and Summers and particularly Daye have intriguing potential.


I think we will be a pretty solid team because our offense will be very efficient out of the halfcourt and that will allow us to get back and set up our defense. Vets like Tay,Rip and Ben will make sure everyone(except probably Charlie V, ) buys in on defense. Our frontcourt isn't great, but we have the length on the perimeter to make their jobs a lot easier. Stuckey is developing into a top notch defender, one you can stick on just about any G in this league.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:48 AM   #27
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Default Re: T-Mac???

Oh, and Tmac, haha. Forgot him in the thread named for him. He is talking like he is going to have a big season and is feeling good. He says things like he believes he can start. He might just be talking shit, but there isn't much point in that for him. I don't think he'd say it if he didn't feel like he was capable of backing it up. Anyways, if he actually did come back and become anything close to his former self(minus the top notch athleticism, its gone for good), then he is a pretty dangerous weapon to have sitting there on your bench. There is more talent on this team than people give credit for. Tmac is a crapshoot, but he's about 12th on our depth chart right now, so we can only win. He's a nice luxury.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:54 AM   #28
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Default Re: T-Mac???

Well, T-Mac probably does know if he doesn't perform well this year he may not be in the league any longer. I think that bodes well for Detroit.

I think C is our weakest positon mostly because I don't think Monroe is necessarily going to work out well at that position. He will probably end up being more of a PF, which makes us awfully deep at that spot. We'll probably end up playing 2 PF's often this season.

I agree with you about Jerebko. He has a very nice rookie season for us but I'm just not sure he's the type that is going to be able to compete with the elite PF's like KG, Amare, Duncan, Boozer, Bosh, etc, etc. He'd be a very nice piece to have coming off the bench for us for years to come though.
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