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Old 08-09-2010, 05:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Anderson has been in the game way longer than Brock has. Brock just burst on to scene shouting his mouth off about how was the best and so on and so forth. Plus, when he won the title, he beat a huge fan-favorite in Randy Couture.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharcyde
Because Lesnar's fight could have been called in the first, the guy was dead and not even defending his face for a long time.
Silva on the other hand was never close to being knocked out because Sonnen doesn't know how to hit.

its hard to get clean shots in when your arms are constantly getting tied up, and all of those hammer fists no matter how soft, make a impact. silva at least showed he can take a lot of ground and pound hits last fight, even if they weren't **** back punches. that ear clappiing had to be annoying also, try doing that to yourself, and imagine your hands tied up where you can't prevent the other guy doing it to you. popping peoples ears like that f'in sucks. silva got beat to a pulp but your right Silva looked less beat up at the end of the fight, mostly due to the elbow Silva connected with.

still tho i disagree Sonnen doesn't know how to hit, more than him not getting clean opportunities to hit him. silva did a good job avoiding some of those cocked swings where Sonnen was hitting floor, or just tying his arms up where he couldn't get clean hits in. i was impressed with his constant barrage tho, even if a lot were piddle paddles, dude never stopped tapping silva's head for 5 rounds!
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

I think the major reason Lesnar gets so much hate was because of the WWE background his loudmouth arrogant demeanor and because people perceive he got the easy route to the title, 5-1 got the title shot after a 2-1 record. Id concede that Brock has grown exponentially MMA skill wise and his wrestling and size pose so much problems, add to the fact that he's starting to learn submissions. The reason I think Fedor fans defend him with so much vigor was because he had this Aura of invincibility around him, were no matter what the odds he always came out on top, plus he wasnt the all imposing fighter we get used to seeing ala Lesnar, hence he is easily likeable by many, plus he is humble as hell. I admit some fans especially the ones that think pride was better then the UFC ( me included) tend to go overboard with the ******gery. But I still think the sport has changed alot hence we see the decline of the old guard.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharcyde
Because Lesnar's fight could have been called in the first, the guy was dead and not even defending his face for a long time.


If Lesnar wasn't defending his face then how come a guy who has knocked out everyone couldn't knock out Lesnar? Lesnar got back on his feet with a minute left in the round. He was never out.

When a guys arms are lying by his sides then you can say he isn't defending his face. Lesnars hands were always up.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharcyde
Because Lesnar's fight could have been called in the first, the guy was dead and not even defending his face for a long time.
Silva on the other hand was never close to being knocked out because Sonnen doesn't know how to hit.
Sonnen outstruck Silva and even kinda rocked him a couple of times. Silva couldn't really do that to Sonnen. I am, in no way, saying Sonnen is a better striker than Silva or that he almost finished him with strikes. I'm just stating the facts of what happened in the fight. Sonnen landed the more damaging blows on the feet.

And Lesnar was not "not even defending his face for a long time." He was in a bad position and didn't really have the best defense for it, but he was covering up. And, yes, the fight could have been stopped, but it shouldn't have been. I don't think you stop a fight on weak strikes. Only if the fighter has shown on multiple occasions that they aren't defending themselves. Not on one exchanges. And especially not a in a championship fight. That fight shows how many fights have been stopped in the past that probably shouldn't have been. People get too into "intelligently defend yourself" and think if a fighter curls up that they aren't "intelligently" defending themselves and that isn't the case.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tontoz
If Lesnar wasn't defending his face then how come a guy who has knocked out everyone couldn't knock out Lesnar? Lesnar got back on his feet with a minute left in the round. He was never out.

When a guys arms are lying by his sides then you can say he isn't defending his face. Lesnars hands were always up.
Exactly.

Tyson Griffin's last fight is an example of not intelligently defending yourself. He got dropped and his arms were at his side. He thought he didn't get KO'd by he made no attempt to defend himself. Brock got rocked, went down, and turtled up. It's embarrassing to see that from a champ, but he was defending himself nonetheless.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Lesnar was hated on before he even stepped in to the Octagon and some of his antics haven't endeared him to many of the fans. A number of fans have a dislike for him, and they allow that plus his WWE background (they don't seem to mind other guys who have a pro wrestling background, though) to influence their opinion on him. What I reeeeeaaaally don't get is how Lesnar can be so hated and yet a gigantic douche like Nick Diaz can have so many ******ging fans.

Neither Lesnar nor Silva really got exposed. If you know the sport, then you knew what their weaknesses were before the fight. People should have already known that Lesnar's striking was rather sloppy, and that Silva doesn't have the greatest takedown defense. I was surprised that so many people wrote Sonnen off before that fight and gave him no chance.

Quote:
What I've seen a lot of is people trying to point to the fact that Fedor never got dominated like that over the course of a fight. Why they're trying somehow to prop him up still as the best P4P fighter in the world after he lost and Anderson Silva got dominated but still won is beyond me. I'm a huge Fedor fan and couldn't care less about Anderson Silva.

I've seen a number of UFC-hating Fedor ******gers who think that Fedor looked better in losing in a minute than Lesnar did in beating Carwin. They refuse to give Lesnar any credit whatsoever and they just say it was nothing more than Carwin gassing.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass18
Lesnar was hated on before he even stepped in to the Octagon and some of his antics haven't endeared him to many of the fans. A number of fans have a dislike for him, and they allow that plus his WWE background (they don't seem to mind other guys who have a pro wrestling background, though) to influence their opinion on him. What I reeeeeaaaally don't get is how Lesnar can be so hated and yet a gigantic douche like Nick Diaz can have so many ******ging fans.

Neither Lesnar nor Silva really got exposed. If you know the sport, then you knew what their weaknesses were before the fight. People should have already known that Lesnar's striking was rather sloppy, and that Silva doesn't have the greatest takedown defense. I was surprised that so many people wrote Sonnen off before that fight and gave him no chance.



I've seen a number of UFC-hating Fedor ******gers who think that Fedor looked better in losing in a minute than Lesnar did in beating Carwin. They refuse to give Lesnar any credit whatsoever and they just say it was nothing more than Carwin gassing.


because Diaz has skillz. i think the purists hate on Brock more than anything since he doesn't really have MMA game. he just wrestles down people, ground and pounding with his size and strength. i can see a lot of pretentious fans into the 'art' side of fighting and hating Brock as a result.

i didn't know much about Sonnen myself. he was really impressive, and i wonder how he's lost most of his matches given his caliber of wrestling ability and cardio.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Myth
Anderson Silva goes on to get his ass beat for 4.5 rounds and taps out Sonnen for the miracle win. The majority of MMA fans reply to this fight with this;

Anderson Silva the best ever! The god of MMA! Everyone bowdown! Anderson Silva will never be dethroned etc etc.

sounds like when kobe shot 6-24 in game 7.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
Probably because the rumor is Silva had 3 broken ribs entering the fight... and he still won.


I think Silva is overrated, and definitely has poor takedown defense.

Lesnar on the other hand is vastly overrated, and the hole in his standup game is more glaring than any weakness Silva may have.

Lol waht?
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:17 AM   #26
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharcyde
Because Lesnar's fight could have been called in the first, the guy was dead and not even defending his face for a long time.
Silva on the other hand was never close to being knocked out because Sonnen doesn't know how to hit.

Proof you didn't watch the lesnar carwin fight
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodle
because Diaz has skillz. i think the purists hate on Brock more than anything since he doesn't really have MMA game. he just wrestles down people, ground and pounding with his size and strength. i can see a lot of pretentious fans into the 'art' side of fighting and hating Brock as a result.

Lesnar is still fairly new to MMA. He's only been around for about 3 years and he couldn't fight for one of those years due to his illness. Silva and Diaz have like 9-10 years of experience. Lesnar is improving, it seems like his striking is coming along slowly, but his BJJ has improved by leaps and bounds (the first time he fought Mir he had pretty much no respect for BJJ).

Quote:
i didn't know much about Sonnen myself. he was really impressive, and i wonder how he's lost most of his matches given his caliber of wrestling ability and cardio.

Most of his losses are from about 4+ years ago. He doesn't have very good sub defense.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:13 AM   #28
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodle
because Diaz has skillz. i think the purists hate on Brock more than anything since he doesn't really have MMA game. he just wrestles down people, ground and pounding with his size and strength. i can see a lot of pretentious fans into the 'art' side of fighting and hating Brock as a result.

Lesnar is as skilled as the younger Diaz at this point, and his wrestling art is a thing of beauty.

The modified one-armed full nelson he used to control Mir in their second fight was something I'd never seen in MMA and he absolutely shut down all of Mir's attempts to turn into him or get underhooks; anything necessary to reverse position from half guard. His wrist control from all different positions is sick, especially the way he winds his arm around his opponent's torso or neck to exert leverage while controlling the wrist. He uses his head to control his opponent's movement on the ground as well as anyone in the game, his base is stable as a rock, and his ability to jump out of guard after getting a figure-four lock around his opponent's chest is a GSP-caliber wrestling move. Looks like his submission game is much improved as well, no one's come close to subbing him since the first Mir fight and he hit the nice arm-triangle on Carwin.

Folkstyle wrestling is a martial art every bit as complicated as Muay Thai or BJJ and Lesnar is one of the best practitioners of it to ever compete in MMA.

Last edited by Zombles : 08-10-2010 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poodle

i didn't know much about Sonnen myself. he was really impressive, and i wonder how he's lost most of his matches given his caliber of wrestling ability and cardio.


As someone mentioned he has very poor submission defense he lost to Jeremey Horn I think 3 times all by either Triangle or Armbar, also lost to Maia and Paulo Filho, he basically loses to anyone with decent ground game, although he kinda has been on a tear.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:49 AM   #30
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Default Re: Quick question regarding MMA (Anderson & Lesnar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErhnamDjinn
As someone mentioned he has very poor submission defense he lost to Jeremey Horn I think 3 times all by either Triangle or Armbar, also lost to Maia and Paulo Filho, he basically loses to anyone with decent ground game, although he kinda has been on a tear.
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say most of his losses to came to fighters will EXCEPTIONAL ground games.

Filho
Maia
Horn (3)
Anderson
Sobral
Prangley

I wouldn't exactly say Prangley and Sobral have exceptional ground games, and maybe that's pushing it for Anderson also, but he's beat a number of guys with good ground games. Mayhem, Arman Gambaryan, Tim Credeur, also beat Prangley, Alexey Oleinik, Dan Miller, Marquardt, Okami - all guys with good BJJ/grappling that he beat. Horn subbed him twice (TKO cut win as well). Maia, Filho, Anderson, Babalu, and Prangley all subbed him once. And he has an embarrassing sub loss to Forrest.

But I completely agree that he can be easily submitted by someone with black belt level BJJ.
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