Definitely side with Frazier. I understand what Ali was trying to do, but he crossed the line more than a few times with what he said about Joe. There is really no need to attack a guy in the mean-spirited way that Ali did just to garner attention or sell tickets. It could have been done in a less hurtful way.
And, Joe is a guy that reached out to Ali when he had his license revoked, gave him money and helped get him re-instated. He was re-payed by being portrayed as a 'gorilla,' the 'white man's champ,' and by having his intelligence mocked.
It is amazing to me how Ali came out of that era smelling like a rose and is a national icon while Joe lives in a one-bedroom apartment above his gym in Philly. Everyone seems to forget the 'other' guy that helped make that era as great as it was. Joe deserves better.
Ali was a dick to him and Joe does deserve better. What defined Ali more was what he did outside of the ring. If all he was known for was nothing more than just a boxer, he'd probably be hated like Floyd Mayweather. But Ali was just as big a figure outside the ring, as he was inside the ring.
Ali was a dick to him and Joe does deserve better. What defined Ali more was what he did outside of the ring. If all he was known for was nothing more than just a boxer, he'd probably be hated like Floyd Mayweather. But Ali was just as big a figure outside the ring, as he was inside the ring.
What he does outside the ring was promoting separation between black and white and supporting the nation of islam. All while still degenerating Joe and George every chance he got. Who's laughing now.
Ali was a dick to him and Joe does deserve better. What defined Ali more was what he did outside of the ring. If all he was known for was nothing more than just a boxer, he'd probably be hated like Floyd Mayweather. But Ali was just as big a figure outside the ring, as he was inside the ring.
Trust me... I get it. He is perceived as a guy who stood against his government's pursuit of an ill-conceived conflict. There was a time when he was despised for this. However, as the years went onward and the Vietnam War became less and less popular, he turned from cult icon to national icon.
I understand that.
But, at the end of the day, he was a complex guy and, if you are going to judge him based on his merits outside of the ring as well as inside it, you cannot overlook how he treated his opponents... Namely Joe Frazier.
Joe was just a fighter. That is all he knew or cared about. All of the political stuff swirling around Ali was foreign to Joe. He knew that he wasn't suited for the political arena, so he stayed as far away from it as he could... A noble individual, imo. Just an ordinary, tough-as-nails guy with an extraordinary left hook.
Yet, Ali used his ability to grandstand and talk to the press to constantly demean, mock and publicly humiliate a guy who didn't deserve it. Let's not get it twisted... What Ali said goes far, far beyond anything that Floyd Mayweather Jr. has said about anyone.
Floyd is really doing it purely to sell tickets and keep his name in the press. As soon as his fights are over, he is the first person to tell you that... And he is also the first person to praise his opponent.
There was much more of a mean-spirited tone with Ali, especially when it came to Frazier... Which is ironic, because Joe was a guy that considered himself Ali's friend and helped Mohammad when he was in need.
Go back and listen to Ali's rants against Joe. People tend to smile and laugh as he stands there and punches a little toy gorilla or pushes down his nose, pulls out his ear and says 'dar, dar, dar".... But when you consider that it was a real person that he was mocking... A good person...
I'm not sure why people laugh. No one else would be able to get away with saying those things about a truly nice guy and not be hated for it. Why did/does Ali get a pass?
I'm not a religious person, but I do believe in karma. It is somewhat ironic that the man whom Ali mocked for not being able to speak intelligently in public was primarily responsible for taking away his ability to orate.
I'm not justifying Ali's action at all. But like Floyd, he too was putting on a show and did his antics to sell tickets and promote himself. He pretty much created his shtick from the pro wrestler Gorgeous George. The only difference is that his stuff went to the high extreme compared to Floyd. You also got to factor in the time and era they were in. There was a lot of hatred going around and stuff Ali said was actually more tolerable back then, then it is now. No way Ali gets away with all the stuff he said if he was fighting today.
Ali was a dick to him and Joe does deserve better. What defined Ali more was what he did outside of the ring. If all he was known for was nothing more than just a boxer, he'd probably be hated like Floyd Mayweather. But Ali was just as big a figure outside the ring, as he was inside the ring.
It's a persona though, you either like it or you don't. It's kind of like when Shaq talked all this shit about the people he was playing against in the league. Some extra sensitive ones probably took it all to heart but at the end of the day, the "entertainment" aspect of it is just as much if not more than the sports aspect. It doesn't mean he hates the dudes in real life and who knows how they interacted off camera to be honest.
Trust me... I get it. He is perceived as a guy who stood against his government's pursuit of an ill-conceived conflict. There was a time when he was despised for this. However, as the years went onward and the Vietnam War became less and less popular, he turned from cult icon to national icon.
I understand that.
But, at the end of the day, he was a complex guy and, if you are going to judge him based on his merits outside of the ring as well as inside it, you cannot overlook how he treated his opponents... Namely Joe Frazier.
Joe was just a fighter. That is all he knew or cared about. All of the political stuff swirling around Ali was foreign to Joe. He knew that he wasn't suited for the political arena, so he stayed as far away from it as he could... A noble individual, imo. Just an ordinary, tough-as-nails guy with an extraordinary left hook.
Yet, Ali used his ability to grandstand and talk to the press to constantly demean, mock and publicly humiliate a guy who didn't deserve it. Let's not get it twisted... What Ali said goes far, far beyond anything that Floyd Mayweather Jr. has said about anyone.
Floyd is really doing it purely to sell tickets and keep his name in the press. As soon as his fights are over, he is the first person to tell you that... And he is also the first person to praise his opponent.
There was much more of a mean-spirited tone with Ali, especially when it came to Frazier... Which is ironic, because Joe was a guy that considered himself Ali's friend and helped Mohammad when he was in need.
Go back and listen to Ali's rants against Joe. People tend to smile and laugh as he stands there and punches a little toy gorilla or pushes down his nose, pulls out his ear and says 'dar, dar, dar".... But when you consider that it was a real person that he was mocking... A good person...
I'm not sure why people laugh. No one else would be able to get away with saying those things about a truly nice guy and not be hated for it. Why did/does Ali get a pass?
I'm not a religious person, but I do believe in karma. It is somewhat ironic that the man whom Ali mocked for not being able to speak intelligently in public was primarily responsible for taking away his ability to orate.
Trust me... I get it. He is perceived as a guy who stood against his government's pursuit of an ill-conceived conflict. There was a time when he was despised for this. However, as the years went onward and the Vietnam War became less and less popular, he turned from cult icon to national icon.
This actually makes me respect him less, not more. The ones that deserve our respect are the 19-year-old kids who did what they thought was right and died a million miles from home or came back crippled to an ungrateful country.
But sure, let's let history laud Ali for taking the coward's way out.
This actually makes me respect him less, not more. The ones that deserve our respect are the 19-year-old kids who did what they thought was right and died a million miles from home or came back crippled to an ungrateful country.
But sure, let's let history laud Ali for taking the coward's way out.
Wasn't there a draft though at the time? It's no like he willingly joined the army and then backed out.
This actually makes me respect him less, not more. The ones that deserve our respect are the 19-year-old kids who did what they thought was right and died a million miles from home or came back crippled to an ungrateful country.
But sure, let's let history laud Ali for taking the coward's way out.
He didn't run like a coward like a lot of other draft dodgers did, he stayed in country and took a principled stand against what he felt was an immoral conflict; in the process giving up his livelihood, some of his prime years athleticism, and facing down potential jail time.
If he had joined the military he would have done the easiest tour imaginable, fighting some exhibition matches a few times a year for the troops, he never would've come close to the war and he wouldn't have lost his boxing license. But he didn't take that easy way out.
ultimately that's more important than anything that could happen in a boxing ring and it's the biggest reason Ali become a national hero who non-boxing fans appreciate.
Re: Muhammad Ali fapping on LIVE television!
