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Old 04-09-2011, 09:27 AM   #211
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

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Originally Posted by O.J A 6'4Mamba
fans are so delusional it is simply unreal. It is a good thing they have to actual perform, just because you say it doesn't mean it will happen.

I don't know what is more ludacris Rose averaging 25+ ppg while dishing 8 assists or Rose shooting over 30 % 3pt or Rose shooting 85% FT this entire year. It is like damned if you damned if you don't or Bulls win 53 games.

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Old 04-09-2011, 09:41 AM   #212
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

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Originally Posted by jasonresno
Rose: "Why can't I be MVP?"

ISH: "Well, Derrick. You see. Your usage rate is too high for how average your TS% is. And, really, you need to work on getting your PER up. How can we take you seriously as an MVP if your PER isn't top 5? Yeah, yeah. 25 and 8 SOUNDS good and #1 in the East sounds good too .. But WE know what makes an MVP."

But, what these numbers illustrate is that he's simply not as good as players who have better numbers in these categories. And two of them in particular-- Wade and Howard-- have not only outplayed Rose during his MVP year, but the majority of their seasons have also been better than his MVP year. And yet, in a sense, by getting MVP his career has already been vaulted past theirs-- particularly Howard who, unlike Wade, doesn't at least have a Finals MVP to secure his legacy.

Rose's MVP is a result of a remarkable confluence of circumstances: LBJ and Wade teaming up, the Bulls hiring Thibodeau, slipppage from Kobe, and his own blossoming into a top ten player. The stars literally aligned for him. In his defense, though, his MVP isn't nearly as egregious as Nash's were.
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:46 AM   #213
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

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Originally Posted by jrong
But, what these numbers illustrate is that he's simply not as good as players who have better numbers in these categories. And two of them in particular-- Wade and Howard-- have not only outplayed Rose during his MVP year, but the majority of their seasons have also been better than his MVP year. And yet, in a sense, by getting MVP his career has already been vaulted past theirs-- particularly Howard who, unlike Wade, doesn't at least have a Finals MVP to secure his legacy.

Rose's MVP is a result of a remarkable confluence of circumstances: LBJ and Wade teaming up, the Bulls hiring Thibodeau, slipppage from Kobe, and his own blossoming into a top ten player. The stars literally aligned for him. In his defense, though, his MVP isn't nearly as egregious as Nash's were.

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Old 04-09-2011, 09:49 AM   #214
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

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Originally Posted by Glide2keva

This is a curious response from you, considering we've had several exchanges on this forum in which it's been apparent that we basically agree on this topic. And my post is a restatement of a post I made yesterday with which you essentially agreed.
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:52 AM   #215
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

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Old 04-09-2011, 09:55 AM   #216
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

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Old 04-09-2011, 09:57 AM   #217
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrong
This is a curious response from you, considering we've had several exchanges on this forum in which it's been apparent that we basically agree on this topic. And my post is a restatement of a post I made yesterday with which you essentially agreed.
But you're implying his play had nothing to do with him being in the race or leading the race.

In the head to heads against the other MVP candidates, Rose played his best and his team won mostly all of those games. That's why he's up there.

Derrick Rose is deserving and if Howard had elevated his team, he would have a real case, not just numbers on a worse team.

pre-season projections were:

1. Miami
2. Orlando/Bostom
3. Boston/Orlando
4. Chicago/Milwaukee
5. Milwaukee/Chicago

What actuall happened?

1. Chicago
2. Boston
3. Miami
4. Orlando

Dwight has recieved 18 technical fouls and gotten suspended twice as a result. Can't win MVP that way.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:04 AM   #218
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glide2keva
But you're implying his play had nothing to do with him being in the race or leading the race.

In the head to heads against the other MVP candidates, Rose played his best and his team won mostly all of those games. That's why he's up there.

Derrick Rose is deserving and if Howard had elevated his team, he would have a real case, not just numbers on a worse team.

pre-season projections were:

1. Miami
2. Orlando/Bostom
3. Boston/Orlando
4. Chicago/Milwaukee
5. Milwaukee/Chicago

What actuall happened?

1. Chicago
2. Boston
3. Miami
4. Orlando

Dwight has recieved 18 technical fouls and gotten suspended twice as a result. Can't win MVP that way.
So true.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:08 AM   #219
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glide2keva
But you're implying his play had nothing to do with him being in the race or leading the race.

In the head to heads against the other MVP candidates, Rose played his best and his team won mostly all of those games. That's why he's up there.

Derrick Rose is deserving and if Howard had elevated his team, he would have a real case, not just numbers on a worse team.

pre-season projections were:

1. Miami
2. Orlando/Bostom
3. Boston/Orlando
4. Chicago/Milwaukee
5. Milwaukee/Chicago

What actuall happened?

1. Chicago
2. Boston
3. Miami
4. Orlando

Dwight has recieved 18 technical fouls and gotten suspended twice as a result. Can't win MVP that way.

No, I credited his play-- I said he's a top ten player. But, the fact remains that if Bron hadn't gone to Miami, this is a two-man race between he and Wade. And there would be no Rose MVP-consideration if VDN was still coaching the Bulls and a lot less of it if Kobe was still a 27+ ppg scorer (assuming that would have led to several more Laker wins).

You know my Wade-issues, so I won't rehash them, but I also put Howard in somewhat of the same category as a potential all-time-great who may never get an MVP, while Rose now in his 1st year of playing MVP-rated ball will. That doesn't sit right with me at all, unless Rose was the runaway, obvious choice. In Rose's defense, he will have his entire career to validate his award whereas Steve Nash's will forever be a stain upon the league.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:10 AM   #220
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

I just don't feel comfortable if Rose won the MVP this season. One could almost say, a guy's first breakout year and he wins the MVP? Seriously? I know the Bulls have absolutely blown everybody away with their expectations, but then so did the Spurs. Almost feels like COY debacles, a team does fairly well one year, and suddenly the coach is the COY. And neither, I don't think, is he the best player in the league (although of course that has almost never been a measure for MVP candidacy). It is just troubling that if Rose does win it, then he has the same number of MVPs as Shaquille, Kobe, Hakeem, Garnett, Barkely, M Malone, Iverson. He may well achieve greatness like all those other players, but I still have a nagging doubt.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:12 AM   #221
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonresno
Rose: "Why can't I be MVP?"

ISH: "Well, Derrick. You see. Your usage rate is too high for how average your TS% is. And, really, you need to work on getting your PER up. How can we take you seriously as an MVP if your PER isn't top 5? Yeah, yeah. 25 and 8 SOUNDS good and #1 in the East sounds good too .. But WE know what makes an MVP."
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:14 AM   #222
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rnbizzle
So true.
The Bulls weren't projected to finish with the top seed and it was ridiculous to think they would when the season started. Miami was supposed to run away with it and leave everyone else fight for postition. That didn't happen. Add to the fact that Boozer/Noah have missed a combined 57 games (some of them together), the Bulls still didn't lose more than 2 games in a row.

2 games, that's their biggest losing streak of the entire season. Think about that. Their defense may have kept them in a lot of games and even won some for them, but their offense is heavily dependent on Rose to bring them home, either through scoring or assisting and putting pressure on the other team. He stepped into that role willingly and did whatever his team needed him to do.

When they needed to make a statement against the Spurs, Rose dropped 42 on them, after dropping 33 on them in the beginning of the season. They needed to make a statement against Miami after the all-star break, Rose makes clutch shot after clutch shot and got the game-winning assist, in one game and kept them close by hitting tough shots to allow Deng to get to the FT line to hit those big free throws, not mention that sick drive on both lebron and Wade that people are still trying to figure out how the hell he scored that basket.

Rose proved himself when the world was watching to see him fail.

It reminds me of a Joell Ortiz rhyme: "Fail just ain't something that I'm finna, I'm such a sore loser, I make sure I'm a MF'in winner."

That's Rose in a nutshell.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:14 AM   #223
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrong
No, I credited his play-- I said he's a top ten player. But, the fact remains that if Bron hadn't gone to Miami, this is a two-man race between he and Wade. And there would be no Rose MVP-consideration if VDN was still coaching the Bulls and a lot less of it if Kobe was still a 27+ ppg scorer (assuming that would have led to several more Laker wins).

You know my Wade-issues, so I won't rehash them, but I also put Howard in somewhat of the same category as a potential all-time-great who may never get an MVP, while Rose now in his 1st year of playing MVP-rated ball will. That doesn't sit right with me at all, unless Rose was the runaway, obvious choice. In Rose's defense, he will have his entire career to validate his award whereas Steve Nash's will forever be a stain upon the league.
Nope, Dwyane Wade's 06 finals will forever have a stain upon the league.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:14 AM   #224
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by brantonli
I just don't feel comfortable if Rose won the MVP this season. One could almost say, a guy's first breakout year and he wins the MVP? Seriously? I know the Bulls have absolutely blown everybody away with their expectations, but then so did the Spurs. Almost feels like COY debacles, a team does fairly well one year, and suddenly the coach is the COY. And neither, I don't think, is he the best player in the league (although of course that has almost never been a measure for MVP candidacy). It is just troubling that if Rose does win it, then he has the same number of MVPs as Shaquille, Kobe, Hakeem, Garnett, Barkely, M Malone, Iverson. He may well achieve greatness like all those other players, but I still have a nagging doubt.

Go to YouTube, watch one of the many Derrick Rose highlight reels and behold greatness.

That will surely make you feel better.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:17 AM   #225
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Default Re: Derrick Rose:"Why can't i be MVP?"

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Originally Posted by BlackJoker23
Nope, Dwyane Wade's 06 finals will forever have a stain upon the league.
No, it won't. Only haters like you think that.
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