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Old 10-23-2010, 03:34 AM   #571
Timmy D for MVP
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Chocolate
There's also quite a few teams that are between 10 and 15. Not going to say payroll doesn't matter, but one conclusion can be drawn:


Money can buy a playoff appearance(excluding the Mets), but certainly not a championship.

The deeper we get into this conversation the better I think I'm understanding so lemme try to articulate this cause I just had a thought:

I think the main difference is the ability to retain players. So it can buy playoff appearances, and you're right not a championship, but it can retain that core while you tweak the other stuff. Therefore they have an advantage in that regard.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:36 AM   #572
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by -playmaker-
in other words "MONEY HELPS A GREAT DEAL IN MLB"

I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise...


money will be the reason the Cliff Lee is with the Yankees next year...


No one is saying money doesn't help. What I am saying is that money in all likelihood isn't bringing you a title. Since 2002(9 seasons), the Yankees and Red Sox(consistently #1 and #2 in payroll) have won only 3 of the 9 titles. It helps to get you in the playoffs. But, is simply making the playoffs considered successful for either of those 2 teams? Me thinks no.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:37 AM   #573
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
Actually Sarcastic, now that I think about it. Texas right now is a lot like that Yanks team in the late 90's. They've got everyone here NOW at the same time but they are still mostly unknown guys so they come at a discount.

The difference is they won't be able to retain everyone. So this window is quite small.

EDIT: So to take the comparison even further. They are more like the Early 00's Oakland A's. Where everyone got together at a great time and they have these really good teams. But I see a breakup in the future due to money.

That is very true. What the Yankee money allowed them to do was actually hold onto their stars. Other teams would have lost their stars to free agency. Because the Yankees have so much money they were able to offer huge deals to Jeter, Posada, Mariano, etc. It is very likely the Rangers will not be able to hold onto their players for too long.

Same thing goes for the Rays. They built a great young team, but will probably lose a lot of players to free agency. Their window is about to be shut.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:38 AM   #574
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Chocolate
No one is saying money doesn't help. What I am saying is that money in all likelihood isn't bringing you a title. Since 2002(9 seasons), the Yankees and Red Sox(consistently #1 and #2 in payroll) have won only 3 of the 9 titles. It helps to get you in the playoffs. But, is simply making the playoffs considered successful for either of those 2 teams? Me thinks no.

Exactly this. Money does help. I would never say it has zero effect. But to say all you have to do is spend money, and you will win is completely false.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:40 AM   #575
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Exactly this. Money does help. I would never say it has zero effect. But to say all you have to do is spend money, and you will win is completely false.
I never said that...

obviously that is not true with what Texas is doing right now...


although I guess you never said that I did say that...

I am just claiming that money helps alot...

hell if it can get you in the playoffs every year that is certainly a huge help...
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:41 AM   #576
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
The deeper we get into this conversation the better I think I'm understanding so lemme try to articulate this cause I just had a thought:

I think the main difference is the ability to retain players. So it can buy playoff appearances, and you're right not a championship, but it can retain that core while you tweak the other stuff. Therefore they have an advantage in that regard.


But if you're not winning titles, does keeping the core even matter? The Yankees kept their core between 2003 and 2007 or so for the most part and it didn't matter. They kept Posada, Jeter, Giambi, Bernie, and eventually A-Rod. It didn't get them anywhere. Money helps you keep the core, but if you're not winning anything, it doesn't matter.

If you're a team like the Royals, Pirates, Orioles, and Blue Jays where you haven't made the playoffs in close to 2 decades on average, a playoff appearance is almost as good as a title. But for most other teams, simply making the playoffs isn't enough.

Last edited by White Chocolate : 10-23-2010 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:41 AM   #577
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by -playmaker-
in other words "MONEY HELPS A GREAT DEAL IN MLB"

I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise...


money will be the reason the Cliff Lee is with the Yankees next year...

Of course. There is no salary cap in baseball. He is 32 years old. This is his last chance at a big payday. He would be insane to turn down money right now.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:44 AM   #578
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Chocolate
But if you're not winning titles, does keeping the core even matter? The Yankees kept their core between 2003 and 2007 or so for the most part and it didn't matter. They kept Posada, Jeter, Giambi, Bernie, and eventually A-Rod. It didn't get them anywhere. Many helps you keep the core, but if you're not winning anything, it doesn't matter.

If you're a team like the Royals, Pirates, Orioles, and Blue Jays where you haven't made the playoffs in close to 2 decades on average, a playoff appearance is almost as good as a title. But for most other teams, simply making the playoffs isn't enough.

The problem with those teams is they have done a piss poor job of developing their farm system. The last good player to come out of Pitt was Barry Bonds. Same goes for the Royals. Greinke is the only decent player they have developed in like 20 years. The Orioles were competitive in the late 1990s, and are getting back there now. Blue Jays as well. They have developed the right way and should be even more competitive next year.

The AL East will be crazy next year. Every team should be tough.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:46 AM   #579
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
The problem with those teams is they have done a piss poor job of developing their farm system. The last good player to come out of Pitt was Barry Bonds. Same goes for the Royals. Greinke is the only decent player they have developed in like 20 years. The Orioles were competitive in the late 1990s, and are getting back there now. Blue Jays as well. They have developed the right way and should be even more competitive next year.

The AL East will be crazy next year. Every team should be tough.


The problem with the Blue Jays is they're in the same division as the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays. Put the Jays in any other division, and they're winning a good 90 games each year and making the playoffs almost every year.
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:48 AM   #580
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Chocolate
But if you're not winning titles, does keeping the core even matter? The Yankees kept their core between 2003 and 2007 or so for the most part and it didn't matter. They kept Posada, Jeter, Giambi, Bernie, and eventually A-Rod. It didn't get them anywhere. Many helps you keep the core, but if you're not winning anything, it doesn't matter.

If you're a team like the Royals, Pirates, Orioles, and Blue Jays where you haven't made the playoffs in close to 2 decades on average, a playoff appearance is almost as good as a title. But for most other teams, simply making the playoffs isn't enough.

Well it does because what you have is the ability to tweak your roster while keeping what got you there in the first place you know? Posada, Jeter, A-Rod helped them get that ring, and it is huge that they were able to hold on to these guys for those years. So if you have a core of players that is talented and you can keep them then no doubt that is a major deal.

For those teams... well okay if the Pirates finish at .500 they're poppin bottles, but what we see there is the small window thing. And to me that's the difference. Because once these players get good enough to take a team to that next level, all of the sudden their prices go up, and certain teams can't afford them. Now you have organizations that are great at rotating players in and out of systems, but it's a lot tougher than just having the money I think.

And you will have guys that stay with their team no matter what. I think even if he wasn't always hurt Eric Chavez would have stayed in Oakland, and I think Joe Mauer will stay put, but more and more we see guys bolt for the money, and who can blame them?
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Old 10-23-2010, 03:52 AM   #581
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Of course. There is no salary cap in baseball. He is 32 years old. This is his last chance at a big payday. He would be insane to turn down money right now.

And have you seen the FA market for pitchers next year? Outside Cliff not much is going on.

Holy shit that man is going to get paaaaid.

How bananas would it be if he ended up back in Philly. Is that even a possability, idk, all I've heard is Yankees but can Philly afford him? That rotation would just be retarded... I kinda almost want to see it. Why not right? The A's are still I think two years away from being legitimate so might as well see some historical shit while I wait.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:06 AM   #582
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
And have you seen the FA market for pitchers next year? Outside Cliff not much is going on.

Holy shit that man is going to get paaaaid.

How bananas would it be if he ended up back in Philly. Is that even a possability, idk, all I've heard is Yankees but can Philly afford him? That rotation would just be retarded... I kinda almost want to see it. Why not right? The A's are still I think two years away from being legitimate so might as well see some historical shit while I wait.

The Yankees will just overpay by like $40 million or so, just to cut out the competition, the same way they did with Sabathia. Unless he decides to give someone a discount, I can't see him signing anywhere else.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:12 AM   #583
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Also Cliff Lee is very good friends with CC Sabathia. Rumor is they have been talking about pitching together again for quite a while.
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Old 10-23-2010, 04:24 AM   #584
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Old 10-23-2010, 07:21 AM   #585
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Default Re: 2010 ALCS - Rangers vs Yankees

Quote:
Originally Posted by -playmaker-
the Josh Hamilton story is also intriguing to people...he is fantastic come back story...



this.

Hamilton came back from hell...fell off a little bit...then came back AGAIN (to win ALCS MVP no less!)


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