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Old 11-29-2011, 09:18 PM   #721
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

now that's what i call a bounce back episode. great dialogue in the building, showed lots of tension with shane pacing back and forth and absolutely about to go off. i still say he's a selfish inconsiderate hothead but he makes a great character in the show because of the conflict he presents.

anyway, i understand build. i really do (season 1 of the wire) but there has to be a balance. we've covered that enough though...great episode other than a couple small gripes. i totally see carol going off the deep end now, getting bitter and depressed. sucks we have to wait till february now.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:36 AM   #722
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

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Originally Posted by bada bing
the CDC guy said something in Rick's ear. we dont know what he said.

He probably told Rick that Lori was pregnant. That's probably why he didn't react as harshly when he found out Shane was banging his wife. I bet this will be one of the reveals in the second half of the season and will show how much composure Rick had by keeping the group together with this secret
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:44 AM   #723
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^It isn't. I believe it's confirmed by the creator that that isn't what the CDC told Rick.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:47 AM   #724
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^It isn't. I believe it's confirmed by the creator that that isn't what the CDC told Rick.

Really? Did they say that in the Talking Dead?
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:07 PM   #725
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

Best article on this season, and why there might be hope for the second half:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollyw...-the-slaughter

Quote:
And so ends the first half of The Walking Dead’s deadly second season, thankfully not with a whimper but with a whole lot of bangs. Still, that’s all there is to be grateful for after seven episodes in which absolutely nothing happened, outside of Carol losing a child and Lori learning she's carrying one — which, when you think about it, is kind of a wash. Seven hours of going to the pharmacy and coming back from the pharmacy, of cooking eggs and crippling chickens, of plugging bottles and logs instead of gaping plot holes. All so Glenn could get some. A valid use of time if you’re Glenn, of course. But an infuriating boondoggle if you’re not.



It’s important to remember that someone actively chose for it to play out like this, to begin the eagerly anticipated sophomore season of a highly rated show with a never-ending traffic jam and end it stalled out in a field. Whether the blame belongs to executive producer Frank Darabont (who was relieved of his duties at some point during the production of these episodes) or the bean-counters at AMC who decided that, post-Mad Men contract extension, the network could better afford a show in which characters argue about killing zombies rather than actually killing them (sort of like subbing in truffle oil for actual truffles or casting Stephen Dorff after Brad Pitt turns you down), this wasn’t a case of natural storytelling progression or even following the blueprint laid out by the comic. This was an independent and wildly wrongheaded decision to transform a promising series about surviving a zombie apocalypse into an overheated soap opera about rural campsite tension.

True, the show did follow Chekhov’s famous dictum, that if you lose a child in the first act someone will put a bullet in its brain in the last. But nothing summed up The Walking Dead’s creative rigor mortis more than the episode’s big reveal. As the smoke cleared from Shane’s barn-exterminating service and a skinny blonde child growled and hissed her way into the light, my first thought wasn’t “My God!” Or “Oh no!” It was: Who the hell is that? For a full minute, I honestly had no idea. Equally anonymous both before and after she had a hole in her head, Sophia was a meaningless MacGuffin from the start because we were never given a concrete reason to care about her. Yes, she was a child — but Rick shot one in the face in the pilot and we survived. Sure, she was Carol’s only remaining family, but Carol seemed well enough hanging laundry in the background with or without her daughter. Daryl announcing, as he did in the early going last night, that “We’re close to finding this girl. I just found her doll a few days ago,” made him seem insane, not heroic. The only character on this show less developed than Sophia is poor T-Dogg, and he’s been on-screen for fewer minutes than Daryl’s runaway horse. That the focus of all of the season’s fulminating was in the barn all along was meant to be jaw-dropping and bitterly ironic or perhaps merely sadly devastating. But, really, it was an indictment of The Walking Dead’s self-made predicament, and one wonders if it was also some sort of meta cry for help from the writer’s room: Sure, the woods are dangerous and all, but the show’s biggest problems are rotting right under their noses.

But before we got to the bullet-pocked finale we had to deal with 37 minutes of filler. Glenn opens the episode by interrupting breakfast (just how many chickens are on this farm, anyway?) to inform the gang about the barn full of zombies — a revelation that makes everyone rightfully upset, though not enough for T-Dogg to say anything. Shane, reasonably, is ready to go — he’s got the Hyundai Tucson gassed up and everything — but Rick, frustrating as ever, wants to stay. He interrupts Hershel’s quiet lunch of potatoes and Bible study to plead his case, but the homely host wants the intruders gone, intoning, “I’ve given you safe harbor. My conscience is clear.” (Banality 15:32.) Maggie began the hour by smashing an egg over Glenn’s head but eventually reveals herself willing to break a few more to help him out, and asks her father to reconsider. No dice. “They’re a strong group. They’ll have to go out and find their own farm.” (Honest question: Would a show about agricultural real estate be more or less compelling that what we’ve been watching? And are all farms naturally zombie-proofed or is that the sort of feature you add before putting a place on the market?)

Anyway, as a show of faith, ol’ Doc Cornpone recruits Rick to help him corral some errant monsters that wandered into the quicksand that conveniently rings the property. While the festering ghouls snap and bite at Rick’s Steve Irwin act, Hershel continues to insist that The Animal Formerly Known as Louise Bush (who is currently trying to chow down on Unknown Hershel Offspring No. 6) is merely a diseased farmer, not a soulless flesh-eater. In fact, he and Otis used to play these Ringling Brothers games all the time — which is weird because Otis had no trouble going full Rambo at the school and, come to think of it, how did Rick get his gun back from Otis anyway and … Sorry! Logical quicksand is even more dangerous than what Louise Bush got stuck in.

Meanwhile, Dale is busy hiding the guns from Shane, which seems wildly unwise because, you know, zombies. Still, it leads to a mano-a-beardo conversation in the woods in which Dale tells Shane that “this is where you belong … this world, what it is now.” The simmering split between Shane — who, despite his buzz cut and bad attitude is generally right about nearly everything here — and Rick echoes the sort of would-be philosophical divide between Jack and Locke back on Lost, only the crushing inertia of Hershel’s farm makes us long for the go-go days of the hatch. While some could argue that Shane’s zero-to-nutso transformation in this episode moves too quickly (as if moving too quickly is a problem on The Walking Dead, a show where the fastest thing around is Carl’s immune system), I would disagree. Shane’s crazy eyes as he walks from one ridiculous interaction to another — from Lori’s “even if it’s yours it’s not yours” parenting lecture to letting an 8-year-old demand that they stay camped out twenty yards from the house of the dead — perfectly mirrored my own. By the time he spies his bullheaded former best friend treating a Walker like Roy treated Montecore, he’s had enough.

While the rest of the cast looks on in varying stages of disbelief, Shane throws open the barn doors and leads the crew in a brutal game of high-caliber whack-a-mole, viciously gunning down every reanimated sweet corn farmer in the Peach State. Hershel falls to his knees in anguish, which kind of makes sense considering this is pretty rude guest behavior. And then Sophia comes straggling out and Rick puts her violently down, and with it our time on Hershel’s farm comes to an end. It could be argued that the utter pointlessness of this entire period was, in fact, the point: that there is no safe haven, that lost things (or children) can’t be found again, that everything always ends in violence, that everything always ends. Except such weighty proclamations would sound false even emerging from Hershel’s God-fearing lips; they’re cynical and unearned. A television series isn’t a comic book and it isn’t a video game: It, like a zombie, is in perpetual motion, always in search of more plot to devour. If the characters have nowhere to go, then there’s no reason for us to go along with them.

When The Walking Dead returns in February, it will be with a new man at the top (Shield veteran Glen Mazzara) and, one hopes, a new direction. Nihilism does not make for must-see TV, and there’s only ever been one successful show about nothing. (And, come to think of it, even Jerry got fed up after waiting 30 minutes for a table at a Chinese restaurant; how long do you think he would have given to an absent Sophia?) These past seven episodes of throat-clearing and thumb-twiddling were clearly intended to take the focus away from the adrenaline-spiking undead extras and make us care more deeply about the living leads. Instead they just made me want to kill them myself.

Sums up my feelings exactly.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:22 PM   #726
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
Best article on this season, and why there might be hope for the second half:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollyw...-the-slaughter



Sums up my feelings exactly.


basically everything i've been saying....and then some. Oh thats right, if we dare say how S2 went nowhere, was pointlessly boring, and more or less sucked we're mindless action fans

he made some great points about the inconsistencies which i didn't even realize until now. one thing a zombie show should strive to be is consistent since fans love to put themselves in a zombie apocalypse survivors shoes and what they would have done differently/better. If the storyteller isn't consistent it completely ruins the hypotheticals discussion when any occurrence can contradict itself later.

i'm surprised he didn't mention the zombie in the well episode so much time just wasted for nothing, i mean if i've ever seen pointless its that

i also agree how its sort of a wash despite the finale being pretty good, altho to me S2 leans a lot closer to a huge letdown. more or less one moment that is even memorably good throughout 6~ episodes.....there is no way that ending justified all of that pointless lead up

that writer is a great observer
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:58 PM   #727
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

I disagree with a bit of that stupid article.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:59 PM   #728
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I disagree with a bit of that stupid article.


probably because it called u out
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:52 PM   #729
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probably because it called u out

You said you liked the midseason finale, so that article is also 'calling you out', Skippy.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:17 PM   #730
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

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Originally Posted by johndeeregreen
FINALLY. An episode that was engaging and actually made me 'feel' something. Like the entire first season. It's about damn time. I still think too much time was spent on this, but at least with that episode ended it's pretty much open-ended now.

Agreed. The first season was great but the 2nd season dragged. It's like they went all out on the first season and ran out of ideas for the 2nd season and decided to milk the hell out of a weak plotline involving the kids.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:06 AM   #731
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

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Originally Posted by Droid101
Best article on this season, and why there might be hope for the second half:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollyw...-the-slaughter



Sums up my feelings exactly.
lmao nicely written
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:25 PM   #732
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Default How to fix The Walking Dead

Another great article over on Grantland. I agree 100%.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollyw...e-walking-dead

Quote:
If we’re being honest, The Walking Dead doesn’t really need our help: The show remains a ratings juggernaut (6.6 million tuned in to find out just what was inside that barn in Sunday’s midseason finale — an audience almost three times the size of the one that tunes in to the average cocktail party at Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce) and a cash cow for money-starved AMC. (All that extra Hyundai loot isn’t hurting, either.) But creatively, the show is stuck in quicksand more treacherous than the stuff that conveniently surrounds Hershel’s sanctimonious chicken farm. In the deeply flawed seven-hour arc that just concluded, the showrunners — including now-departed behind-the-scenes boss Frank Darabont — attempted the tricky task of simultaneously expanding the world and constraining it, putting more focus on the tortured inner lives of the still-living protagonists while limiting their movements to a single, horsey setting. This decision proved disastrous in two ways. First, the show’s cranky leads proved themselves unable to carry the increased storytelling load, collapsing like cheap card tables into an unpleasant morass of sour looks, repetitive arguments, and bullet-wasting. We’re all for character development, but the more time we spent with these people the more we wanted to see them develop into zombie chow — particularly the show’s doomy Bermuda Triangle of overheated pathos, Rick, Shane, and Lori.



Second, by planting the group in front of an unchanging, budget-saving backdrop, the showrunners robbed The Walking Dead of its central engine: fear. Hershel’s farm was as suffocatingly dull as the man himself, a miraculously safe haven in which our protagonists were free to cook endless meals, hang endless laundry, and generally do all of the things that can make life in a zombie apocalypse as innocuous and boring as life in Duluth. Those characters not naturally suited to doing nothing, like Daryl, were free to engage in an utterly futile wild girl chase — the manic, increasingly insane hunt for Sophia, a child we’d barely noticed before she’d disappeared into the woods. Forcing the characters into frustrating dead ends is one thing; turning the entire show into a frustrating dead end is quite another.

Because, make no mistake, The Walking Dead is worth rooting for. The current landscape of hour-long dramas is grim, riddled with hoary historical epics (Hell on Wheels, Boardwalk Empire) and soggy crime procedurals (The Killing) that aim for the cinematic but too often settle for the cheap and violent. The Walking Dead, at its best, is both terrifying and ambitious, a full-throated (often open-throated) celebration of genre that possesses the highest concept, the highest stakes, and the highest body count ever seen on television. There are three months before the show returns to finish off its second season — plenty of time for new showrunner Glen Mazzara to course-correct and get as far away from Hershel’s farm as possible, both literally and figuratively. With that in mind, we not-so-humbly present some suggestions on how best to bring The Walking Dead back to life.

1. Eat Lori.

This one is self-explanatory. Shrill, secretive, and perpetually furious about something or other, Lori Grimes has become the surly face of an increasingly unlikable cast. The character’s central trait seems to be inconsistency: She either loves Shane or loathes him, she’s ferociously protective of her son, Carl, except when she isn’t, and barely puts up a fight when he goes from gunshot victim to gun enthusiast in the time it takes most major-surgery patients to relearn how to walk to the bathroom. Nothing summed up her rabbity unpleasantness more than her surprise pregnancy — a lame plot to begin with, but here transformed almost immediately into yet another opportunity for a shouty philosophical debate. (And could there be a less dramatic finale to a purportedly thrilling show than watching a character pee in a cornfield?) Worse, instead of addressing her situation directly, she sent Glenn on not one but two potential suicide runs to the pharmacy, the second for a box of magical abortion pills that she choked down and then vomited up in short order.

Of course, it’s not Sarah Wayne Callies’ fault her character devolved almost instantly to a peevish cul-de-sac — and, really, the show’s inherent problem with women (that they are natural laundresses in constant need of male protection) is an ugly affliction that not even Dr. Hershel’s potent horse medicine could cure. But removing her now would do more than make the show less annoying: It would also free up our nominal hero, Rick, to be something other than dull. When The Walking Dead premiered, Rick’s panicked hunt for his wife and son gave him charisma and an invigorating spark — a spark his unlikely, near-instantaneous reunion with his family quickly extinguished. Now all he does is make bug eyes and promise to do anything to take care of Lori and Carl. But what if he were to fail? Turning Lori into dinner would allow Rick and Shane to reevaluate their own relationship and embark on new ones. The sooner Lori goes for a long walk in the woods, preferably wearing her finest bacon necklace, the better for everyone.

2. Pick a Destination.

Defenders of The Walking Dead who are versed in the comic-book source material often claim that the show’s underlying current of direction-free hopelessness is the point; that creator Robert Kirkman was attempting to illustrate the depressing (un)reality of what happens after the credits roll in a standard-issue zombie flick; that, ultimately, there are no survivors. This is heady stuff, and well suited to the immediacy of comic books with their ability to jump forward and backward in time and abruptly shift storytelling focus from micro to macro at the touch of a pencil. But television shows are different; they move in only one direction: forward. And the characters need to move with them.

The first season was about getting to the CDC — a decision that seemed smart at the time but ended with the world’s first wine-fueled firebomb. This season has been considerably more murky: There was vague talk about getting to Fort Benning, but not much rationale for why. And a physical destination is only half of it: What is the eventual goal for our motley crew of survivors? Is it saving the world or merely finding a little corner of it in which to hide? Establishing clear objectives, in both the short and long term, will do wonders for the morale of those watching Rick for any glimpse of true leadership — including those of us at home.

3. Don't Get Lost.

One would think that a series about a zombie-ravaged swath of rural Georgia would offer plenty of room for original characters and situations. And yet the default strategy for The Walking Dead seems to be WWJD: What Would Jack Do? The small cast of the show was already blessed with a worrying number of “trackers” — a skill that is nearly nonexistent in real life but is as prevalent on television as sassy neighbors. This season brought a raft of pointless flashbacks (Did we need to see how Carl found out about his dad getting shot? Or witness Lori and Carol’s meet-non-cute on the highway?), and the disturbingly rapid Sawyerization of Daryl — a shaggy-haired, sleeve-averse loner with a propensity for violence, one-liners, and unexpected bursts of sentimentality. By Sunday night, Shane, Rick, and Hershel were parroting the most aggravating bits of later Lost: all “my people” vs. “your people” and disagreements over survival strategy being played out via portentous, slow-motion shots of near-biblical violence. Surely there must be profound things to say about the nature of civilization and humanity without falling back on the same old good vs. evil backgammon analogies. The Walking Dead, with its willingness to show real horror and visceral extremes, could and should be better. Lost may have been blessed with a stronger cast, but the most dangerous thing lurking in its woods were polar bears — and they never tried to eat anyone.

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Old 12-02-2011, 02:25 PM   #733
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Default Re: How to fix The Walking Dead

MOAR

Quote:
4. Infuse Some Fresh Blood.

It seems we’ve gone as far as we can go with this ragtag group. Is anyone out there jonesing for more of the adventures of Big Hat Carl, World’s Tiniest Sheriff? Or Dale’s creepy paternalism toward Andrea? Or, for that matter, Andrea’s overnight transformation from a PTSD poster child to La Femme Nikita? Thanks to Shane, she’s gone from target practice to machete-sharpening overnight! We’re beginning to think that T-Dog’s season-long disappearing act isn’t because the writers forgot about him, but rather owing to his own realization that spending time with these people is unbearable. It’s an enormous waste that all of the hours spent cooking eggs at Hershel’s farm didn’t introduce a single new voice to the ensemble apart from Maggie, a sallow pixie farm girl who really only shared dialogue (and bodily fluids) with Glenn. The nadir may have been when Hershel’s son suddenly volunteered for handgun lessons two episodes back, having almost definitely not been there before. Suddenly, the show’s living extras were as faceless and interchangeable as the dead ones.

What’s most galling about this is that The Walking Dead introduced its single best character in the pilot and then never used him again. Morgan was both energetic and emotional, a tormented father with his own demons and responsibilities — not to mention his own agenda. As the purported differences between Team Winnebago have vanished — Daryl is now no less sociable than Dale — the weaknesses of the storytelling have been revealed. When, in Sunday’s finale, Glenn mentioned Portal, it was shockingly refreshing: evidence of a real human being with memories of life before the world went to hell. The Walking Dead needs to repopulate its survivors with fresh energy and new perspectives: In lieu of rednecks and cops, where are the overmatched suits, or the well-prepared geeks? Wouldn’t at least some of the opulent Buckhead mansions owned by rappers and athletes come zombie-proofed? Something — someone — needs to shake up the show’s increasingly incestuous pity party. Otherwise they’re liable to start killing each other long before the walkers get to them.

5. Reinvent the Characters.

In Sunday’s episode, Dale damned the increasingly unhinged Shane in the worst way he could: accusing him of “belonging” in the post-zombie world. This wasn’t so much an insult as it was an excellent point: Shane is a hounddogging, muscle-bound, crazy person with the marksmanship of Duke Nukem and the sexual appetite of a rabbit on Viagra. If he’s being honest with himself — and judging by his new haircut, he is — he is absolutely much happier in this consequence-free new reality where he can bone his best friend’s wife and shoot sweet-corn farmers in the face. This revelation is something to build on going into the second half of the season — but it can’t end there. There must be other survivors like Shane who are grateful for an opportunity to reinvent themselves: criminals, maybe, or unpopular nerds. Even Glenn is ripe for this sort of exploration: We know next to nothing of his former life, but we’re fairly sure it didn’t involve stealing sports cars, beating monsters to death with pickaxes, and nooners in abandoned pharmacies. If our protagonists find themselves stuck in another long-term campsite — and make no mistake, they will, if only because fixed sets save cash-strapped AMC a ton of money — let’s hope it will be run by a story-generating Looney Tune aiming to remake society in his own crazy image, or experimenting with using zombies as an alternative fuel source. Anything other than another round of moralistic hair-pulling and Scripture-quoting. Nihilism belongs in freshman yearbooks, not weekly television.

6. Own the Zombies.

Despite everything, The Walking Dead has been responsible for some of the most breathtaking images we’ve seen over the past year: the ghastly, graceful herd on the highway; the spitting, suicidal zombie hanging all alone in the forest. The show’s mastery on that side of the ball isn’t surprising — it may be the only series in history to have a makeup artist (Greg Nicotero) listed as an executive producer — nor is it unexpected that the writers would attempt to counterbalance the gore with an increased focus on humanity. After all, what makes scary movies scary are the talky bits in between the violence. A monster movie with nothing but monsters is called a video game, and not even The Walking Dead’s turgid plotting could make us want to watch someone else play a video game.

Still, for a show ostensibly about zombies it certainly seems like we’re seeing less and less of them — and when we do see them, it’s diminishing returns. Watching Shane mow down a barn full of walkers may have been cathartic for him, but it was tedious for us. Worse, the threat level of the undead seems to fluctuate wildly depending on the demands of the script: Shane and Otis were overrun during their field trip to the school, yet Shane and Andrea managed to escape a similar moldy mob in the suburbs just a few episodes later. We’ve seen zombies turn an entire horse into Laffy Taffy in a matter of seconds, and yet when Daryl was unconscious he was preyed upon by the only walker in the world who prefers chewing on a leather boot to a defenseless, fleshy neck.

Moving forward, Mazzara and his crew of writers will have to come up with even more diabolical situations, and, perhaps more crucially, they’ll also have to begin answering some questions. Are the walkers evolving? Or devolving? Can they be cured? Or at least taught some rudimentary tricks? The shocking bursts of dopamine provided by the zombie scenes are the best thing about The Walking Dead, a disparity that threatens to sink the entire series, especially as the human half of the equation crumbles. But by reframing the relationship between the zombies and the living, Mazzara & Co. just might be able to reinvigorate both sides. Despite the frustrating lows of these past seven episodes, we’re actually optimistic that he can pull it off. Because one thing The Walking Dead has taught us is that death — even creative death — is far from the end.
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Old 12-02-2011, 02:37 PM   #734
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

looks like season 2.5 is shaping up nicely

The Walking Dead
Daryl actor Norman Reedus offered this preview of the second half of the season:

Quote:
I can say that in the second half, after this hiatus, people are done talking. It's all kind of firecrackers from here on out. It gets more action packed. The first part of the season, it gets slow when people have to talk. That's just how it works. I think the writers have done such a great job with setting up storylines and explaining them when they need to be explained, not over talking it and not over thinking it. There are certain things that need to be said to keep the story moving and I think they've done a good job with it. I know when people watch the show they go, ‘More zombies. More death.' But you have to do a bit of talking. Otherwise it's ‘Transformers.'

He also discussed the possibility of a romance between Daryl and Carol:

Quote:
We do have a sort of special bond, and it's not so much romantic as I think it's damaged people hanging out with damaged people. They sort of gravitate towards each other. I even find that more interesting. We were talking about how we should do a spin off called ‘Daryl & Carol' where we live in Central Park and there would be a still in the woods in Central Park and she'd be knitting blankets on a bench and people would walk up and go, ‘Do you know where the Statue of Liberty is?' ‘**** you! What are you looking at?' We had a theme song that goes, [singing] ‘Carol is feral and Daryl feral, a match made in hell.' You never know. As far as a romantic thing, I have no idea if that's in the works. I think it's almost more interesting that it doesn't happen, to be honest.
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:33 PM   #735
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Default Re: The Walking Dead

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Originally Posted by rezznor
looks like season 2.5 is shaping up nicely

The Walking Dead
Daryl actor Norman Reedus offered this preview of the second half of the season:



He also discussed the possibility of a romance between Daryl and Carol:


daryl is really underplaying his justification for the 'slow' and exaggerating how bad fast all of the time would be, just like so many do. but its nice to hear him saying things are going to pickup
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