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Old 11-14-2010, 04:38 PM   #1
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Default Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Question for boxing fans, where does Pacquiao rank all-time? I heard one of the announcers last night say that pac man is the greatest offensive fighter he has ever seen.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Hard to say since Boxing as an organized/codified sport goes back to the mid 1800s (specifically Queensbury Rules) and there's been a LOT of great fighters. That being said, Manny has done things that no fighter has ever done- 8 weight divisional titles, 4 lineal titles, and continues to defy conventional boxing theory and practice by just outright dominating much bigger opponents. As an offensive fighter, he ranks at the very top with a select few- his combination of speed, power, angles, movement, foot speed, etc has rarely (if ever) been seen before.

And he's only 31, still in his prime, and has 2-3 more fights left in him where he can continue to cement his legacy.

Off the top of my head, right now I'd say he's top 10-15. But a lot of Historians and experts (ie, Bert Sugar, Emmanuel Steward) have Pacquiao in their top 5 already.

Last edited by DonDadda59 : 11-14-2010 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Hard to say since Boxing as an organized/codified sport goes back to the mid 1800s (specifically Queensbury Rules) and there's been a LOT of great fighters. That being said, Manny has done things that no fighter has ever done- 8 weight divisional titles, 4 lineal titles, and continues to defy conventional boxing theory and practice by just outright dominating much bigger opponents. As an offensive fighter, he ranks at the very top with a select few- his combination of speed, power, angles, movement, foot speed, etc has rarely (if ever) been seen before.

And he's only 31, still in his prime, and has 2-3 more fights left in him where he can continue to cement his legacy.

Off the top of my head, right now I'd say he's top 10-15. But a lot of Historians and experts (ie, Bert Sugar, Emmanuel Steward) have Pacquiao in their top 5 already.
Having him top 5 would be REALLY REALLY hard to justify. Starting at the top, SRR is clearly number 1. Joe Louis, Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, SRL, Roberto Duran, Jack Johnson and benny leonard. Really tough to see how you rank him above any of those guys. Also, whether the pac fans want to admit it or not Floyd>Manny in an all time list. Hes somewhere around 15-20.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Bert Sugar has Pacquiao in the top 5?
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Having him top 5 would be REALLY REALLY hard to justify. Starting at the top, SRR is clearly number 1. Joe Louis, Ali, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, SRL, Roberto Duran, Jack Johnson and benny leonard. Really tough to see how you rank him above any of those guys. Also, whether the pac fans want to admit it or not Floyd>Manny in an all time list. Hes somewhere around 15-20.

I never personally put him in the top 5, just saying that many experts and historians who are great authorities on the subject do. And how can you talk about not being to justify something and then type out the bold?

How the hell is Floyd even remotely close to Manny of the ATG list? What has he done or accomplished that trumps what Pacquiao has?
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:11 PM   #6
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
I never personally put him in the top 5, just saying that many experts and historians who are great authorities on the subject do. And how can you talk about not being to justify something and then type out the bold?

How the hell is Floyd even remotely close to Manny of the ATG list? What has he done or accomplished that trumps what Pacquiao has?
They have extremely similar career accomplishments, except manny has been knocked out twice while Floyd is undefeated. That does matter. Dont get me wrong, the 0 isnt the end of any argument(if it was andre berto would be an atg and rocky marciano would be the goat HW) but it is a factor and if you dont have a clearly superior resume, the guy with the 0 gets the nod. Pac doesn't have a clearly superior resume.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
They have extremely similar career accomplishments, except manny has been knocked out twice while Floyd is undefeated. That does matter. Dont get me wrong, the 0 isnt the end of any argument but it is a factor and if you dont have a clearly superior resume, the guy with the 0 gets the nod. Pac doesn't have a clearly superior resume.

Joe Calzaghe (46-0) is the best fighter of this generation and Rocky Marciano (49-0) is the greatest HW of all time by that argument

Their career accomplishments are in no way similar with the exception of Manny taking out common opponents in a fraction of the time. F*ck outta here with that.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Joe Calzaghe (46-0) is the best fighter of this generation and Rocky Marciano (49-0) is the greatest HW of all time by that argument

Their career accomplishments are in no way similar with the exception of Manny taking out common opponents in a fraction of the time. F*ck outta here with that.
Dont be an ass, I specifically said the 0 isnt the end all be all. Both have moved up quite a bit in weight, both have beaten several of the same opponents and both have been dominant. What exactly would you list as manny achievements that floyd doesnt have anything similar to other than the number of weight classes hes won a title in?
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Dont be an ass, I specifically said the 0 isnt the end all be all. Both have moved up quite a bit in weight, both have beaten several of the same opponents and both have been dominant. What exactly would you list as manny achievements that floyd doesnt have anything similar to other than the number of weight classes hes won a title in?

Quality of opponents (could've retired as a top 50 ATG after beating Morales, Barrera, Marquez, etc in '06), lineal championships (most all time), and of course conquering unprecedented weight challenges.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Quality of opponents (could've retired as a top 50 ATG after beating Morales, Barrera, Marquez, etc in '06), lineal championships (most all time), and of course conquering unprecedented weight challenges.
Floyd beat marquez, Mosley, Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales, and Zab Judah among others. You can obviously make the argument for manny's opponents being slightly better because Morales and Barrera are both borderline ATGs themselves but the myth that floyd hasnt fought top competition is just that, a myth.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

pac has the edge over floyd in breaking opponent faces
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
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pac has the edge over floyd in breaking opponent faces
He also has the edge in having his face broken ;)
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
He also has the edge in having his face broken ;)
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Floyd beat marquez, Mosley, Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales, and Zab Judah among others. You can obviously make the argument for manny's opponents being slightly better because Morales and Barrera are both borderline ATGs themselves but the myth that floyd hasnt fought top competition is just that, a myth.

Call it a myth, call it whatever you want. Pacquiao's quality of opponents>Floyd's and when you factor in Manny's history-setting accomplishments, then it's not really a debate. Also, who's to say Manny won't go after that 9th divisional/5th lineal title against the winner of Williams-Martinez? He still wants to fight 2-3 more times and Floyd's career is basically over IMO, so the wide gap between them will just grow even further.
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Call it a myth, call it whatever you want. Pacquiao's quality of opponents>Floyd's and when you factor in Manny's history-setting accomplishments, then it's not really a debate. Also, who's to say Manny won't go after that 9th divisional/5th lineal title against the winner of Williams-Martinez? He still wants to fight 2-3 more times and Floyd's career is basically over IMO, so the wide gap between them will just grow even further.
IF he beats williams/martinez then that would certainly be something else to consider(and lets be real he has 7 titles, the one from last night is a joke even in todays era of joke belts) But you cant give him credit for that yet, nor can you say floyds career is over. Saying whos to say manny wont beat the pwill/martinez winner is the same thing as me saying whos to say floyd doesnt beat manny next year which would end all argument as to where they rank relative to each other and is much more likely imo then manny beating pwill/martinez for the 160 title(for it to be for the 160 title its got to be at at least 155 even as the catch weight and i dont think manny does that.
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