Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-14-2010, 06:10 PM   #16
DonDadda59
Lord High Executioner
 
DonDadda59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Killing Fields
Posts: 11,437
DonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
IF he beats williams/martinez then that would certainly be something else to consider(and lets be real he has 7 titles, the one from last night is a joke even in todays era of joke belts) But you cant give him credit for that yet, nor can you say floyds career is over. Saying whos to say manny wont beat the pwill/martinez winner is the same thing as me saying whos to say floyd doesnt beat manny next year which would end all argument as to where they rank relative to each other and is much more likely imo then manny beating pwill/martinez for the 160 title(for it to be for the 160 title its got to be at at least 155 even as the catch weight and i dont think manny does that.

Think about it- it's pretty much definitive that Pac-Floyd won't happen in the Spring because Floyd skipped his court date and his arraignment was rescheduled to January 24 of next year (same day as Roger). So that means the trial will take up the Spring/Summer and if Floyd avoids jail time, the earliest he can fight would be Fall and he won't jump in the ring with Manny after being inactive for more than a year and 1/2 (won't jump in the ring with him in general ). He'll want a tune-up, so the earliest the fight could happen would be Spring of '12 when Floyd is 34, will have been very inactive, and no one will care at that point. Then you have to factor in the high probability that his trainer is serving time again and there's too many reasons why we won't see that fight next year or ever for that matter.

And Pacquiao/Williams=Pacquiao/Margarito=Pacquiao/DLH. Paul says he can make 147 still, so a 155-157 catchweight for the lineal MW crown should be no issue, especially since he's already fighting for it at 157. And if Sergio wins, there's another quality fight and opponent. He offered Manny/Floyd/Angulo a fight for his championship at 155 btw, so that wouldn't be an issue. There's really not many quality opponents or challenges left for Pac and Roach/Arum have both said they would wait to see how Manny does against the much bigger Margarito to decide if fighting Williams would be a good matchup. Tony's broken face and an easy night for Pac says they should go for more history.
DonDadda59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 06:13 PM   #17
raiderfan19
Shazam!
 
raiderfan19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,980
raiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Think about it- it's pretty much definitive that Pac-Floyd won't happen in the Spring because Floyd skipped his court date and his arraignment was rescheduled to January 24 of next year (same day as Roger). So that means the trial will take up the Spring/Summer and if Floyd avoids jail time, the earliest he can fight would be Fall and he won't jump in the ring with Manny after being inactive for more than a year and 1/2 (won't jump in the ring with him in general ). He'll want a tune-up, so the earliest the fight could happen would be Spring of '12 when Floyd is 34, will have been very inactive, and no one will care at that point. Then you have to factor in the high probability that his trainer is serving time again and there's too many reasons why we won't see that fight next year or ever for that matter.

And Pacquiao/Williams=Pacquiao/Margarito=Pacquiao/DLH. Paul says he can make 147 still, so a 155-157 catchweight for the lineal MW crown should be no issue, especially since he's already fighting for it at 157. And if Sergio wins, there's another quality fight and opponent. He offered Manny/Floyd/Angulo a fight for his championship at 155 btw, so that wouldn't be an issue. There's really not many quality opponents or challenges left for Pac and Roach/Arum have both said they would wait to see how Manny does against the much bigger Margarito to decide if fighting Williams would be a good matchup. Tony's broken face and an easy night for Pac says they should go for more history.
Im not saying that they wouldnt fight at 155, im saying pac i dont think pac would. And he cant get it lower than that and still have it get him the 160 title.
raiderfan19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 06:18 PM   #18
the GIBBET
Banned
 
the GIBBET's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,244
the GIBBET has one of the lowest reputations on this boardthe GIBBET has one of the lowest reputations on this boardthe GIBBET has one of the lowest reputations on this boardthe GIBBET has one of the lowest reputations on this boardthe GIBBET has one of the lowest reputations on this boardthe GIBBET has one of the lowest reputations on this boardthe GIBBET has one of the lowest reputations on this board
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

I'm not a boxing historian so I can't comment on all-time lists, but since I have watched Pacquiao and Mayweather fight, I'll add this to that particular sub-topic:

Pac is clearly the better fighter. Emphasis on the word 'fighter.' Mayweather might shuffle and dodge and perform peripheral technical tasks better than Manny. But Pac's aggressiveness, strength, and chin given how much size he usually gives up, are staggering. I've wondered myself if there isn't something to the doping thing Floyd has insinuated. If Pac is totally clean, he is an outright beaaaaast.
the GIBBET is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 06:23 PM   #19
DonDadda59
Lord High Executioner
 
DonDadda59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Killing Fields
Posts: 11,437
DonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
Im not saying that they wouldnt fight at 155, im saying pac i dont think pac would. And he cant get it lower than that and still have it get him the 160 title.

I don't see why not. Pac came in at 144.6 on the scale, 148 in the ring against a tough, much bigger opponent who was 150 on the scale and 165 in the ring. Paul Williams rehydrates to 162 at the most and is no where near as strong as Margarito and if he took the same beating Tony did, he would be out in the middle rounds. Martinez is trickier because he's bigger and would rehydrate more and is a better fighter overall than Paul (or at the least I think he would present Manny more problems). But Pac can come in at 145-147, rehydrate to 150 and be good to go.

Roach already said this is an option for their next fight. But we'll just have to wait and see how next week's MW championship fight goes, how Marquez-Katsidis pans out, and Mosley's situation then we'll have a better idea of what the Spring will look like for Manny.
DonDadda59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 07:14 PM   #20
JellyBean
College superstar
 
JellyBean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,411
JellyBean has an incredible reputation hereJellyBean has an incredible reputation hereJellyBean has an incredible reputation hereJellyBean has an incredible reputation hereJellyBean has an incredible reputation hereJellyBean has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

I would put him among the greats. I can't say that he is better than Sugar Ray Robinson or Leonard. Ali, Tyson, Hearns or Hagler. Alexis Arguello or Julio Cesar Chavez. How about Aaron Pryor or Roberto Duran. Pac is among the greats of all-time.
JellyBean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 07:18 PM   #21
hateraid
Is it in you?
 
hateraid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In your local 7-11 freezers
Posts: 11,306
hateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterhateraid is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

I think another thing to add to the legacies of the 2 fighters is that Floyd has a reputation of ducking quality opponents.
hateraid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 07:38 PM   #22
raiderfan19
Shazam!
 
raiderfan19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,980
raiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hateraid
I think another thing to add to the legacies of the 2 fighters is that Floyd has a reputation of ducking quality opponents.
Again thats more myth than fact. That would be the equivalent of me saying that manny has a rep for taking performancer enhancers... Neither statement is true(though to be fair floyd does have more of a rep as a ducker) I have a question for you Don, where would you rank floyd all time(roughly speaking).
raiderfan19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 07:43 PM   #23
Zombles
Local High School Star
 
Zombles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,284
Zombles has decent reputation
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JellyBean
I would put him among the greats. I can't say that he is better than Sugar Ray Robinson or Leonard. Ali, Tyson, Hearns or Hagler. Alexis Arguello or Julio Cesar Chavez. How about Aaron Pryor or Roberto Duran. Pac is among the greats of all-time.

I'd put Pac over Leonard, Tyson, Hearns, and Hagler at this point.

Can't put him above Duran or SRR, not 100% Ali deserves the nod over him though. Have to think on that one.

Manny can't go down as the GOAT unless he beats PBF and a couple other names in the higher classes like Williams. Even then, to dethrone Sugar Ray Robinson

unlikely. my guess is he finishes at the bottom of the top 10, top 5 if he beats Floyd. right now he's hanging out in the teens.

Last edited by Zombles : 11-14-2010 at 07:45 PM.
Zombles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 07:51 PM   #24
IGOTGAME
NBA All-star
 
IGOTGAME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9,324
IGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombles
I'd put Pac over Leonard, Tyson, Hearns, and Hagler at this point.

Can't put him above Duran or SRR, not 100% Ali deserves the nod over him though. Have to think on that one.

Manny can't go down as the GOAT unless he beats PBF and a couple other names in the higher classes like Williams. Even then, to dethrone Sugar Ray Robinson

unlikely. my guess is he finishes at the bottom of the top 10, top 5 if he beats Floyd. right now he's hanging out in the teens.
and if Floyd totally tears him apart. Does that push him down the list because that would mean guys like whither would do the same.
IGOTGAME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 07:53 PM   #25
Tarik One
NBA rookie of the year
 
Tarik One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,465
Tarik One is considered somewhat coolTarik One is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

You guys are nuts. Pac is NOT better than Leonard

I can list a bunch of cats who are better fighters than Manny

147 and below:

Leonard, Hearns, Armstrong, Robinson, Duran, Pep, Lamotta, Archie Moore, Whitaker, I can go on and on.

I've seen many bouts of these fighters and they'll all handle Manny quite effectively.
Tarik One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 07:56 PM   #26
IGOTGAME
NBA All-star
 
IGOTGAME's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9,324
IGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputationIGOTGAME has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarik One
You guys are nuts. Pac is NOT better than Leonard

I can list a bunch of cats who are better fighters than Manny

147 and below:

Leonard, Hearns, Armstrong, Robinson, Duran, Pep, Lamotta, Archie Moore, Whitaker, I can go on and on.

I've seen many bouts of these fighters and they'll all handle Manny quite effectively.
Thank you. Someone with some since
IGOTGAME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 08:05 PM   #27
Zombles
Local High School Star
 
Zombles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,284
Zombles has decent reputation
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

I view the all-time list as what the boxer accomplished, not necessarily who would beat who. I think some boxers today would beat Sugar Ray Robinson, the sweet science wasn't as advanced as it is today and the athleticism in the game is much higher. The Klitschko brothers would probably beat the shit out of Marciano but it doesn't mean they rank higher.

Leonard's a great fighter but I don't see how going 1-1 with a smaller Duran, beating Hearns, and getting a questionable decision over Hagler makes him better than Manny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
and if Floyd totally tears him apart. Does that push him down the list because that would mean guys like whither would do the same.

Doesn't push him down, every single person on everyone's list besides Marciano lost to at least one of their best contemporaries, usually lost quite a few times.

But Pac can only go so high without fighting his best contemporary. It'd be like Ali never fighting Foreman.

Last edited by Zombles : 11-14-2010 at 08:08 PM.
Zombles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 08:22 PM   #28
Tarik One
NBA rookie of the year
 
Tarik One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,465
Tarik One is considered somewhat coolTarik One is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombles
I view the all-time list as what the boxer accomplished, not necessarily who would beat who. I think some boxers today would beat Sugar Ray Robinson, the sweet science wasn't as advanced as it is today and the athleticism in the game is much higher. The Klitschko brothers would probably beat the shit out of Marciano but it doesn't mean they rank higher.

Leonard's a great fighter but I don't see how going 1-1 with a smaller Duran, beating Hearns, and getting a questionable decision over Hagler makes him better than Manny.



Doesn't push him down, every single person on everyone's list besides Marciano lost to at least one of their best contemporaries, usually lost quite a few times.

But Pac can only go so high without fighting his best contemporary. It'd be like Ali never fighting Foreman.


It's obvious you've never taken an extended look at the fighters I mentioned.

The idea of Klitschkos beating Marciano is absolutely laughable too.
Tarik One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 08:27 PM   #29
Zombles
Local High School Star
 
Zombles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,284
Zombles has decent reputation
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

it's obvious i've never seen any of them fight because i explicitly said the fact that they might beat Manny doesn't necessarily mean they rank higher on the all-time list ?

And I see almost no way Rocky could get inside that reach or overcome the size and strength disadvantage. He was what, 5'11" and 185 for most of his career? Even if he did, Vitali's chin is a rock and doesn't break from the first haymaker that lands. I guess he could suzie q Wladamir if he landed flush but it seems unlikely.

Last edited by Zombles : 11-14-2010 at 08:30 PM.
Zombles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 08:38 PM   #30
DonDadda59
Lord High Executioner
 
DonDadda59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Killing Fields
Posts: 11,437
DonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableDonDadda59 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Where does Manny Pacquiao rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarik One
It's obvious you've never taken an extended look at the fighters I mentioned.

The idea of Klitschkos beating Marciano is absolutely laughable too.

Wladimir Klitschko: 6'6" height, 81" reach, usually comes in at 240+ lbs
Vitali Klitschko: 6'7 1/2" height, 80" reach, usually comes in at 245+ lbs

Rocky Marciano: 5'10" height, 67" reach, usually came in at 185 lbs

Klitschkos vs Marciano would be a horrible mismatch that would result in a punishing one-sided KO loss in the early-mid rounds for the Rock.
DonDadda59 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:23 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy