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Old 12-04-2010, 09:19 AM   #1
mlh1981
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Default Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb...ory?id=5882356

This guy posted all those power numbers hitting at spacious Petco Park. He's gonna be downright scary hitting at Fenway.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:32 AM   #2
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Finally. I <3 Theo.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Never really watched him too much. How does he hit to left field?
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnCeltics
Finally. I <3 Theo.

Three seasons in the making...
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

That sucks balls.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Steal for the Red Sox.

They get one of the best hitters in the league and they, apparently, don't lose anyone off their MLB roster and only a couple prospects which doesn't hurt them too much. The Red Sox tend to spend big in the draft and should replenish their system quickly. Casey Kelly's stock took a bit of a hit last season too. He's still really young for the level he played at but no prospect is a sure thing.

The AL East just keeps getting tougher. This sucks.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Not to mention the compensation picks they will recieve for V-Mart and Beltre.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

I'm a Yankee fan, and this is an absolutely terrifying deal from my perspective. This is a division shifting type of deal. It recovers the balance of power the Sox lost when the Sox lost out on the Texiera deal. This pretty much balances out the lineups, and at the end of the day, in spite of Sabathia being the best pitcher on either staff, the Red Sox's staff is better. And that includes some mistakes. Obviously Dice K was an error in judgement. And I hate the Lackey deal. But with Petitte more than likely to retire, The Sox have a much deeper rotation.

I will say, as much as I like Carl Crawford, the money he's demanding will be a mistake for someone. And he makes particularly little sense for the Sox. One of his biggest values is he provides incredible ground coverage as a LF, but the Sox play half their games without much ground to cover. Because of that, he makes a ton more sense for the Yankees (the big run in the 90s was played much with a former All-Star CFer in LF in Yankee Stadium, Chad Curtis). However, playing speed in front of power isn't necessarily a good idea anyway. With power dissipating league wide (ahem), there's only a few teams who can afford it, the two mentioned being on the short list obviously. Speed loses value when it's on base in front of guys who crush the ball anyway. Those extra bases don't mean much when you woulda scored from first anyway. I genuinely think signing Crawford would be a mistake for the Sox. He's a really good player, but his two biggest assets are marginalized in that situation. The Yanks make more sense, but I don't feel like he's a make or break fit there either. The Angels are a really good fit. As a Yanks fan, I'd almost rather have Werth, but that creates problems defensively in LF with either him or Swisher. And I'd still rather have Gardner in the outfield than Granderson.

The Moneyball philosophy has gotten out of control in baseball, and it's been really dumbed down. One of the things lost in the way the moneyball effect has been broadcast is that it was never really about OBP and SLG. It was about holes in the market place. And with local broadcasters siting OPS for opposing teams 7th hitters, it's probably fair to say that it's no longer a hole in the market place. The book says right up front, if Billy Bean had the Yankees and Red Sox's payroll, his team would look a lot like the Yankees and Red Sox. The point was that Jeremy Giambi was being undervalued by the rest of the league because his OB% was high yet he didn't appeal to anyone else. The same is true now. The Yanks and Sox's rosters look the way the should look seeing as they're still outspending the league. But everyone is looking for OB%. So where's the next hole? I have a feeling it lies in baserunning. It doesn't seem to be recorded all that publicly or accurately. I know both the Giants and Rangers were really agressive and good going first to third this year. Perhaps that extra base is the thing that's not being paid enough attention to in team building at the moment.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnCeltics
Not to mention the compensation picks they will recieve for V-Mart and Beltre.
They'll lose their pick once they pick up either Crawford or Werth too though.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Where did you grow up Thorpe? Yankee fan?
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete's montreux
Where did you grow up Thorpe? Yankee fan?

I know, I get that a lot on here, mostly because I'm a Celtic fan too.

I grew up in Southwest CT. About an hour and a half from my doorstep to Grand Central. My friend in school, who lived around the corner from me, his family was pretty wealthy. It wasn't a rich neighborhood or anything, but they had an old historic house in the area. His family owned a local insurance company, still do in fact. And they had season tickets to the Yanks. We'd go five or six times a summer. Going by ourselves as young as 13 years old. He and his brothers are also the ones who got me into the Big East tournament at that time.
My Celtic history is from my grandfather. He worked in a bakery on the weekends to make extra money, and he and three other guys split Celtic season tickets every year. So they'd get ten games a piece. I was one of 47 grandkids on that side of the family, so I didn't get to go all the time, but I went more than anyone else, and by the time I was in middle school, it was clear I was the basketball guy in the family. Even some of his buddies would bring me. I've been to tons of incredible Celtic games.

Where I am, it's not that unusual to see Celtic/Yankee fans, especially around my age, with the Yankees proximity, and TV access, and the Celtics being so good during my formative years.
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Old 12-04-2010, 02:26 PM   #13
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Quote:
The Moneyball philosophy has gotten out of control in baseball, and it's been really dumbed down. One of the things lost in the way the moneyball effect has been broadcast is that it was never really about OBP and SLG. It was about holes in the market place. And with local broadcasters siting OPS for opposing teams 7th hitters, it's probably fair to say that it's no longer a hole in the market place. The book says right up front, if Billy Bean had the Yankees and Red Sox's payroll, his team would look a lot like the Yankees and Red Sox. The point was that Jeremy Giambi was being undervalued by the rest of the league because his OB% was high yet he didn't appeal to anyone else. The same is true now. The Yanks and Sox's rosters look the way the should look seeing as they're still outspending the league. But everyone is looking for OB%. So where's the next hole? I have a feeling it lies in baserunning. It doesn't seem to be recorded all that publicly or accurately. I know both the Giants and Rangers were really agressive and good going first to third this year. Perhaps that extra base is the thing that's not being paid enough attention to in team building at the moment.
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Totally agree. I was so sick of people repeating that same "walk, walk, 3 run home run) cliche when discussing Moneyball. It is tough to find a new oversight though now that the Yanks/Red Sox are doing all the right things (and with more resources to boot).

I think Beane was trying a more defense oriented approach in Oakland player acquisition but so far nothing really has come of it. I don't think there will be any more front offices that will find that aspect of the game to exploit as dramatically as Oakland did with OBP.
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Old 12-04-2010, 02:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Quote:
Originally Posted by bballnoob
Totally agree. I was so sick of people repeating that same "walk, walk, 3 run home run) cliche when discussing Moneyball. It is tough to find a new oversight though now that the Yanks/Red Sox are doing all the right things (and with more resources to boot).

I think Beane was trying a more defense oriented approach in Oakland player acquisition but so far nothing really has come of it. I don't think there will be any more front offices that will find that aspect of the game to exploit as dramatically as Oakland did with OBP.


Yeah, but the players the Yanks and Sox spend money one don't really require a lot of statistical analysis on to find out there good. If you got a stat nerd, and an old school dyed in the wool baseball scout to give you lists of their top 500 baseball players in the world, the top 200 would probably look pretty similar. No one needs an excel sheet to know that Ken Griffey was a spectacular baseball player. It's not until you start getting to the fringes that you start to see differences in philosophy, and finding holes in the market, and misalligned values.

And I don't think teams build enough to their park. The Sox during the Cowboy Up years did a great job building to their park. Sure Millar was an underrated hitter over his career, but more than that, is that he was a really good right handed pull hitter. He fit that park perfectly. Gary Sheffield woulda been a great fit in Fenway for the same reason, but no one was undervalueing Gary Sheffield.
The Red Sox preached the Defense and Pitching philosophy last year to no avail. Which seemed retarded at the time to me. What value does Mike Careron have in that park, especially in left field. And you can't preach defense and pitching and then let Victor Martinez, a DH, handle your staff. It was a year they needed to rebuild. The Yanks will probably hit it in a couple years too when Jeter and Posada can no longer man their positions.

Defense seems to be a spot where there may be some holes in the market though. Pitching never has nor will it ever be undervalued. Maybe middle relief. I really think baserunning, not steals, but actually moving around the bases, may be a spot where there's some holes.

The OB% thing may be being oversold at the moment because a) it got insanely mainstream, and b) because the waiting on power is less consistent now with power numbers coming back to earth.
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Old 12-04-2010, 02:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Red Sox acquire Adrian Gonzalez

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
I know, I get that a lot on here, mostly because I'm a Celtic fan too.

I grew up in Southwest CT. About an hour and a half from my doorstep to Grand Central. My friend in school, who lived around the corner from me, his family was pretty wealthy. It wasn't a rich neighborhood or anything, but they had an old historic house in the area. His family owned a local insurance company, still do in fact. And they had season tickets to the Yanks. We'd go five or six times a summer. Going by ourselves as young as 13 years old. He and his brothers are also the ones who got me into the Big East tournament at that time.
My Celtic history is from my grandfather. He worked in a bakery on the weekends to make extra money, and he and three other guys split Celtic season tickets every year. So they'd get ten games a piece. I was one of 47 grandkids on that side of the family, so I didn't get to go all the time, but I went more than anyone else, and by the time I was in middle school, it was clear I was the basketball guy in the family. Even some of his buddies would bring me. I've been to tons of incredible Celtic games.

Where I am, it's not that unusual to see Celtic/Yankee fans, especially around my age, with the Yankees proximity, and TV access, and the Celtics being so good during my formative years.

I hate to bring up just one aspect of this detailed explanation, but, forty f*cking seven grandchildren?
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