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Old 12-08-2010, 07:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

I am betting like 95% of the population that celebrates Christmas doesn't have Christ in mind anyway...

I also bet a lot of the atheists in here also celebrate Christmas....




I am not a Christian, and I LOOOVE Christmas!!!...the season for giving!!!


"It's the most wonderful time, of the year"
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
The sooner you accept this notion and stop thinking that your magical sky daddy has some sort of 'purpose' for you beyond selling women's shoes and is holding your hand along the path of your meaningless life, the sooner you'll accept the undeniable facts of life and nature and you can stop scouring the net for misguided drivel like what you posted.

Such an outburst from a God-denialist just further backs up my belief that the rejection of the self-evident existence of God is based far more on emotion than logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
There is no intrinsic meaning, purpose, or authority to the Universe...

Will you be presenting evidence for this, scientific or otherwise, or should we ignore the emotional rhetoric behind your tear-soaked rant and just take your word on it?

Let's be honest here, kiddo: Rejecting an ultimate meaning, purpose and authority in the universe gives you comfort, most likely because you're a horrible human being who fears ultimate punishment.

My question is, just what have you done that's made you so terrified of God?

Drugs? Rape? Child molestation? Murder?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
just what some shroom consuming religious fanatics jotted down while tripping in the desert 2,000 years ago and rehashed from older arcane myths and slapped on new titles to. Jesus=Sol Invictus=Serapis=Horus and so on. RBA pretty much shut this thread down before it even had a chance, so I'll leave it at this.

The Zeitgeist propaganda was refuted years ago.

Zeitgeist Refuted | Free Faith & Lifestyle Videos - Watch Faith & Lifestyle Videos Online | Veoh

Of course, you can't posit a positive explanation for your own worldview ("Nothing created everything out of nothingness. Derp, derp, derp."), thus you must resort to attacking others views ("There is no God, therefore chancedunnit!").


Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Nice little billboard near the entrance of the Lincoln Tunnel:


I love the silliness of God-denialism.

On one hand assert that the universe is void of purpose or meaning, and on the other hand, assert that they, products of said nihilistic universe, have acquired the cognition skills to make such a bold statement with near 100% certainty.

That's not reason. That's a level of self-delusion and logical incoherency so severe that it qualifies as full-blown insanity. You are a danger to yourself and society and you need help.

For the record, from the existence of its finely-tuned laws and regularities (including math and logic), the gigabytes of highly specified, encoded digital information inside each and every one of us, to the rational correspondence between our minds and the universe, the existence of meaning and purpose is overwhelming.

That we can even contemplate our own existence was the first major hint that something very strange is going on. That some people choose to turn a blind-eye to this hint is spitting in the face of science, logic and reason.


An excellent, "Game Over" level argument against atheism can be found here. The author is Jamaican physicist and the single most brilliant man I've ever met. It's a must-read for anyone who enjoys these types of discussion.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

I'd be curious to know their probability for God not existing and how they came to that precise calculation.

The most sophisticated method I could think of would be to figure out how likely it is that our life-sustaining universe would form multiplied by the likelihood that life would actually form somewhere in this life-sustaining universe. Methinks that number would be so large as to be virtually incomprehensible by all but a select few, thus the existence of God would be assured.

...or, just assert there's no God and have blathering idiots (like frightened homosexual DonDadda) repeat it, ad nauseum.
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:51 PM   #19
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

The funny thing is you religious people are so defiant in your belief that anybody that is atheist is a horrible human being. Just goes to show how judgemental and ignorant you really are. Or, you think just because someone doesn't believe in god that it correlates to something terrible occurring during their life in the past. Have you ever thought that maybe none of it makes sense or seems like an over dramatic and humanly concocted idea? You have not strengthened your case one bit with this thread.

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Old 12-08-2010, 11:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOBEMAMBA24
The funny thing is you religious people are so defiant in your belief that anybody that is atheist is a horrible human being.

This is simply not true. Not all atheists consider religious people wackjobs either. I'm sick and tired of the 'we' versus 'they' position many believers and non-believers take. Igniting dissensions and promoting factions is obvious sinful nature (Galatians 5:19-21). At the heart of it all, is Satan further dividing man from man, and as a result further dividing all of us from God.

The majority of my life, I was atheist. I'll always have a soft spot towards them because to a degree I understand where they're coming from. As believers in God, followers in Christ, towards them we should: Jude 1:22-23 "Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them."

The common glue that holds us all together is we're all seeking the truth. Believers want non-believers to see their truth, and non-believers want believers to see their truth. It'll always be that way until ultimately the truth is known. In the meantime we should all learn to get along mutually despite our religious or non-religious beliefs.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:25 AM   #21
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
This is simply not true. Not all atheists consider religious people wackjobs either. I'm sick and tired of the 'we' versus 'they' position many believers and non-believers take. Igniting dissensions and promoting factions is obvious sinful nature (Galatians 5:19-21). At the heart of it all, is Satan further dividing man from man, and as a result further dividing all of us from God.

The majority of my life, I was atheist. I'll always have a soft spot towards them because to a degree I understand where they're coming from. As believers in God, followers in Christ, towards them we should: Jude 1:22-23 "Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them."

The common glue that holds us all together is we're all seeking the truth. Believers want non-believers to see their truth, and non-believers want believers to see their truth. It'll always be that way until ultimately the truth is known. In the meantime we should all learn to get along mutually despite our religious or non-religious beliefs.
You sound like a classic Agnostic, which is what I identify myself as. While I highly doubt that there is some kind of supreme being that set all of this in motion and watches over us, I'm not going to rule anything out.

I just don't think that the human species is evolved enough to comprehend our place in the universe. It is just something that is far beyond us. Therefore, anyone sitting behind a computer ready to explain to me how/why all that we see around us exists is the epitome of arrogance and ignorance.

Not even the greatest minds who have ever lived have really scraped the surface on a true 'answer.' I'm certainly not going to blindly believe a book of tales that was written by a human hand 1,800 years ago.

I believe that religion is comforting to those that really want an answer, but recognize their limitations and know that science may never offer them the hope, salvation and comfort that religion gives them. And, hey... That's fine with me. If people are happy believing that, when they die, they are going to live in the clouds, play a lute and wear a tunic, more power to them.

However, I tend to rely on logic and blind faith does not work in my world. Whatever helps you get through the day happily, though...
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:46 AM   #22
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
However, I tend to rely on logic and blind faith does not work in my world. Whatever helps you get through the day happily, though...

It takes just as much faith to believe that everything came from nothing as it does to believe that everything came from God.
Not God like you see in cartoons but a great Being that we can't even begin to comprehend.

Think about it. Everything we see came from SOMETHING. Your computer, your body, water bottles, etc. etc. Everything was made by something or someone. Wouldn't it be logical to believe that this Earth came from SOMETHING too? Or is that being ignorant and "blind faith"?
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny37
It takes just as much faith to believe that everything came from nothing as it does to believe that everything came from God.
Not God like you see in cartoons but a great Being that we can't even begin to comprehend.

Think about it. Everything we see came from SOMETHING. Your computer, your body, water bottles, etc. etc. Everything was made by something or someone. Wouldn't it be logical to believe that this Earth came from SOMETHING too? Or is that being ignorant and "blind faith"?
Being agnostic means admitting that you don't know. It really is that simple. I don't have to explain away why something doesn't add up in a specific theorem or with a specific deity. It is an admission of the truth, in short.... We don't know... None of us. It is beyond human capability to grasp the nature of humanity, the earth and, especially, the universe. There is no shame in admitting it... Or there shouldn't be.

It isn't about 'picking sides'... This isn't a political or athletic discussion. At the absolute base, it is a discussion about human intelligence and our ability to grasp the most fundamental -- yet complex -- issue that any of us will ever touch upon. I've read a lot of scientific studies and, while I do believe in evolution, etc., there are certain things that just -- to date -- cannot be explained. I took several upper level theism courses in college and came away re-affirming my core belief. It just cannot be that simple and, if it is, there isn't enough (or any) evidence to back it up.

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Old 12-09-2010, 01:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Being agnostic means admitting that you don't know. It really is that simple. I don't have to explain away why something doesn't add up in a specific theorem or with a specific deity. It is an admission of the truth, in short.... We don't know... None of us. It is beyond human capability to grasp the nature of humanity, the earth and, especially, the universe. There is no shame in admitting it... Or there shouldn't be.

It isn't about 'picking sides'... This isn't a political or athletic discussion. At the absolute base, it is a discussion about human intelligence and our ability to grasp the most fundamental -- yet complex -- issue that any of us will ever touch upon. I've read a lot of scientific studies and, while I do believe in evolution, etc., there are certain things that just -- to date -- cannot be explained. I took several upper level theism courses in college and came away re-affirming my core belief. It just cannot be that simple and, if it is, there isn't enough evidence to back it up.
I can respect that.
Props.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

The ultimate ? mark I still find myself pondering even as a believer is the age old question of where did God Himself originate from? Over the years, I've learned there are some things man is simply not equipped (mentally/intellectually/emotionally) to comprehend. The origin of God is one of them. In this life with our limited understanding, we're just not ready, nor will we ever be.

So we find ourselves playing tug-of-war. Did a supreme being, an ultimate Creator, give birth to the universe and all existence? If so, from where and how did the one supreme being come to be? Did the universe create itself? Was something created from absolutely nothing? If so, how is that logically even possible, much less probable?

I call it the mind-rape merry-go-round. Like the Penny poster said, it takes just as much faith to believe in nothing rather than something... if not more faith. One thing is certain (for me), I'm going to put my eggs in the God basket instead of the one labeled 'nothing' - which is in essence Satan's basket. He's the father of lies, and the greatest lie he's told each and every one of us is he simply doesn't exist.
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

The only issue with the Man is not equipped to comprehend God's origin logic is that it can be moved over to Man doesn't have the information to explain the Universe's origin. It's a both ways thing.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:08 AM   #27
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny37
Think about it. Everything we see came from SOMETHING. Your computer, your body, water bottles, etc. etc. Everything was made by something or someone. Wouldn't it be logical to believe that this Earth came from SOMETHING too? Or is that being ignorant and "blind faith"?

Considering what we know about astrobiology and quantum physics, yes it is a leap a faith and ignorant to believe it came from something. There's no proof for either side and you're just as much an idiot as the atheist. Well, the atheist is probably less of the fool because he's never seen anything to believe in god, but you still do.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy D for MVP
The only issue with the Man is not equipped to comprehend God's origin logic is that it can be moved over to Man doesn't have the information to explain the Universe's origin. It's a both ways thing.

Has man not already come to the conclusion the big bang created everything we know in existence today? Having said that, considering this universe was created from nothing rather than something, how can we say for sure our universe is the sole universe in existence? How do we not know in some extreme distant parallel dimension(s) there isn't a neighboring universe(s) that may eventually overlap themselves like galaxies within our own universe?

If we can agree the big bang gave birth to our own universe, there's no way for us to know it hasn't happened before or after elsewhere beyond the bounds of the universe as we know it today. Way too many IF's IMO. Belief in a Creator sounds so much more... IDK, sound.

Traveling to the depths of the universe and back discovering and uncovering anything and everything... would that be enough to discredit entirely the existence of an ultimate Creator? It's my belief the truth isn't 'out there' but rather right here in our own backyard.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

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Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
Traveling to the depths of the universe and back discovering and uncovering anything and everything... would that be enough to discredit entirely the existence of an ultimate Creator? It's my belief the truth isn't 'out there' but rather right here in our own backyard.
The thing of it is, the burden of proof isn't on him. You ask for him to disprove the existence of an ultimate creator. I would simply ask for you to prove it or at least begin to prove it.

Reading different theories on how the universe was formed, picking them apart and then exhaustively throwing your hands up and saying, "it must be a deity because I can't explain it any other way" is not proof of existence. That is only proof of the limitations of our own minds.

If you simply 'feel' that there is an ultimate creator and cannot prove it, then there is no sense in questioning others' subjective opinions on the matter, because you have already given in to blind faith.

One thing I've noticed about religious people over the years (and I realize that this is a very general stereotype that certainly doesn't apply to everyone) is that they do not feel that they have any burden of proof. At the same time, they want any scientific theory to be absolutely air-tight. It seems like a clear double-standard.

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Old 12-09-2010, 02:29 AM   #30
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Default Re: When Nothing Created Everything

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
Considering what we know about astrobiology and quantum physics, yes it is a leap a faith and ignorant to believe it came from something. There's no proof for either side and you're just as much an idiot as the atheist. Well, the atheist is probably less of the fool because he's never seen anything to believe in god, but you still do.

DW, are we actually masters of the universe though? How much do we really know about what's out there? In the grand scheme of things, we know as much about the universe as penguins know the Sahara desert.

There was another thread on this site just recently referring to an astrobiology report released from NASA indicating there may be twice as many stars as we originally estimated.

What we know, or what we think we know, is just the tip of the iceberg at this point. We virtually know nothing, yet we think we know it all, or at least enough to consider ourselves 'masters of the universe' - at least in thought anyway.
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