Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-03-2006, 03:24 PM   #46
lakers-city
Good college starter
 
lakers-city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,069
lakers-city has decent reputationlakers-city has decent reputation
Default

well, wade obviously didnt take more fts than shaq, i just wanted to point out why that is pretty obvious,
lakers-city is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 04:01 PM   #47
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,402
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

For the record all these people took more FTs per game on a playoff run than Wade last year(and im not counting guys who got knocked out in one round. At least 10 games played).

Pierce in 03
Wilt a number of times.
West 3-4 times.
Barkley a few times
Jordan(98 and 89 at least...maybe more)
Dantley
Karl Malone(a few times)
Oscar Robertson
Rick Barry
Amare
Bernard King
Baylor
Nique


Dirk was half a Ft a game back. Kevin Johnson was right there.

I hear its the perception more than the reality of it...and I agree.

*****ing about refs has hit all time highs and the problem is more noticed. But 20 something guys have taken more FTs a game in the playoffs than Wade did last year. As you can see its not just bigmen either. Swingmen have too.

As for when he gets them...another issue of perception and style of game. If its the end of the game every star is taught to go to the basket since youre more likely to get hit and its an easier shot. When Wade settles for a jumper late in a game(as he did vs the Pistons a few days ago) hes not getting calls when nobody touches him.

End of a game hes gonna draw contact knowing todays rules give the benefit of the doubt to the offensive player.

Such rules are why we can have 6 guards shooting more Fts than Jordan in his prime.

Seeing all his FTs makes people think things happen that dont. Make it look like he shoots them more than anyone when plenty of people took more. May "feel" like he shot more than Shaq ever did.....but he didnt. may "feel" like guards and swingmen never got to the line like he does....but they did. And do.

Problem with his FTs is far far more perception than reality. Once everyone makes a big deal of them they are noticed more and overblown. Thats why there are more percieved FTs than there are in reality. It may feel like hes on the line knocking down FTs for all his points. Reality? AI makes more Fts a game than Wade does.

But you hear 20 people ***** about Wade all day and night the complaining affects judgement. Wade gets no more calls than a few guys. And if he does its not by the margin suggested.

Takes a lot of FTs so he gets a lot of calls. But hes not on his own....
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 04:17 PM   #48
the even bigger black guy
High School Varsity 6th Man
 
the even bigger black guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: cobra kai dojo
Posts: 748
the even bigger black guy has decent reputation
Default

blaze - do you not take into account the validity of the calls? or just volume as compared to others?
the even bigger black guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 04:19 PM   #49
Money 23
Samurai Swoosh
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago's Finest
Posts: 2,498
Money 23 is popular on this boardMoney 23 is popular on this boardMoney 23 is popular on this boardMoney 23 is popular on this board
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the even bigger black guy
blaze - do you not take into account the validity of the calls? or just volume as compared to others?
Yeah, that's the main issue. Not so much the volume. But the volume mixed with actual valid fouls. Mr. KBlaze is ignoring this issue. Maybe he is just a really big Wade fan?
Money 23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 04:25 PM   #50
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,402
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

I like the guy but im not a massive fan. Ive been called a Wade hater here more than a fan since I point out the fact that without Shaq hes basically a volume shooter who wins half his games just like Kobe was.

The calls being valid is considered. But most of the time people dont even see the calls to decide if he deserved them. He only need to be fouled 6 times to get his FTs. When you look at it like that its not hard to imagine a slasher being hit 6 times in 40 minutes. If Wade gets 6 fouls its rare less than 4 are obvious calls.

Nobody here would think he couldnt draw 4-5 legit fouls a game right? We watch these games. He DOES get hit a good number of times. If he actually needed 15 calls to take 15 FTs it would be unlikely all would be legit. But if you look at footage of his fouls there is basically always contact.

A true phanton "nobody touched him" foul is rare in the NBA. He gets a lot of calls that are fouls but arent bad enough to call in my opinion. But the guy does get touched on damn near every foul call. Plenty of guys get fouled on 4-5 shots a game while not driving the way he does. Not hard to believe he could get hit once more than them while driving at every chance he gets.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 04:31 PM   #51
Money 23
Samurai Swoosh
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chicago's Finest
Posts: 2,498
Money 23 is popular on this boardMoney 23 is popular on this boardMoney 23 is popular on this boardMoney 23 is popular on this board
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
But if you look at footage of his fouls there is basically always contact.
Yeah, but not always enough to be a legit foul. There is always going to be some contact. It's a contact sport. Just cause there is some of it, doesn't mean it is an actual foul. Wade gets bailed out alot with the types of calls he gets. I don't know why you're making it sound like people who point this out are "b1tching", they are merely stating how ridiculous it has gotten with him in particular. I think you're defending his case alittle too much. There certainly is legitimacy to the complaints against Wade. It isn't mere perception. Some of the "contact" is self imposed by Wade throwing himself into players, in order to get a call. Then it is even more annoying when on those plays where he draws the contact, doesn't get a call, he will actually complain. That is the worst.
Money 23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 04:46 PM   #52
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,402
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

I call it *****ing because thats what it usually is. Who are we talking about here? Rasheed Wallace who lost to Wades team and despite being entertaining has a long history of being a poor sport and not giving credit to teams that beat his(see last year series vs the cavs). A group of Laker fans who make the same topic over and over about Wades FTs. I dont think it needs to be explained why Laker fans might want to diminish Wade. And then its mostly Mavs fans. Basically a group of bitter fans who take advantage of any comment even the least bit related to Wade FTs to make topics like this one.

Wade has basically an entire section of fans who look to bring his status down mostly due to bitterness. So they point out every single comment anyone makes about it. Bring it up enough and you start to change perception. But you cant change reality.

The reality of the situation is Wade gets fouled....a lot. And while he may gets some calls....all the stars do. Thats why 6 guard shoot more FTs than Jordan did in 13 of his 15 years. It sure as hell isnt them being more aggressive or getting hit more(in the 90s physical play at near its peak).

Guards get calls now. Wade is the whipping boy of the moment due mostly to bitter fans and a few players making joking comments. And 1-2 defeated coaches. Coaches *****ing over refs is as old as the sport.

Wade is just the face of the issue. But he sure as hell isnt the entire issue.

When you have people saying a hall of fame potential player is mediocre if he didnt get the FT a game he gets more than the other stars its gone way past concern for the sport we love. Its just flat out stupid.

I may think the guy is overrated by many. I dont think hes top 5 in the league and arguably as low as 7th or 8th. I may not think hes gonna win anything without Shaq. It may annoy me that people choose to diminish Shaqs impact on the team. I may have been annoyed when he got some shaky calls vs the Bulls in the playoffs.

But I respect the sport too much to pretend the refs make him what he is. Determination, wanting to make it to the basket, and just a little flopping(also called veteran smart depending on who you ask) get him his FTs. And with all that he still doesnt take way more than the other guys.

So im just not going to overblow the problem. I get annoyed when he gets a FT from leaning into Kirk Hinrich. But I get annoyed when Lebron, Pierce, Cassell, and Kobe do the same thing.

The rules now annoy me. The way the game is called so that guys like Gilbert Arenas can take 800 fts. That annoys me. But I wont pretend Wade is the sole beneficiary of it just because a bunch of overly biased fans with hurt feelings find a new quote once a week and make 4 topics every time he gets more than 13 FTs.

Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 12-03-2006 at 04:49 PM.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 05:05 PM   #53
Mathius
NBA sixth man of the year
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northeast OH
Posts: 6,103
Mathius has a terrific reputationMathius has a terrific reputationMathius has a terrific reputationMathius has a terrific reputationMathius has a terrific reputationMathius has a terrific reputation
Default

I have to agree with the consensus that Wade is a big time actor.

I don't care about the numbers. I've watched the games. And it isn't just with the free throw issue.

How many times last year did they report how badly injured D Wade was, only to have him enter the game, play fine, and have a huge game? They were reporting during the playoffs that he couldn't even stand up in the one practice without the aid of a cart, and yet he came into the game and scored 28 or something.

The guy is a big drama queen. I don't care how good he really is. It's true.

Mathius
Mathius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 05:19 PM   #54
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,402
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

AAP used to say the same thing about Kobe. How hed limp for a second then all of a sudden be able to drive and dunk. I didnt care much then and dont now. If you think hes a drama queen so be it. He is to some degree. And heres the last thing ill say on it....

When I was a kid everyone(in my family at least) hated the calls Larry Bird got.

Bit later it was Magic and the Lakers using that illegal D. Basically a loose zone that was as clear as day but the refs only clled 2-3 times a month. Magic getting a FT at every touch.

Then everyone was heated because ofthe pistons."How can they play like that! Thats not even basketball....". Badboys got a lot of room for error on what was and wasnt a flagrant.

Then when MJ took over the basketball world agreed he was great...but he got calls. Knicks fans hated it. magic Johnson said in photo shoots he couldnt get too close to Jordan or its a foul. Jordan gets away with the most obvious push off in history on a shot to win a title.

When the Lakers were on top "____ got screwed by the refs" was a daily issue. Kings fans, Twolf fans, blazers fans and all. Never ending *****ing over Shaq. 20 topics every playoff game where Kobe got a call or two. Nobody here at the time can deny that. **** it was like 2005 before some people stopped calling the Kings the 2002 champs here.

Few years ago the Spurs got it. Everyone mad over Bowens physicl play and from 03-05 Mavs fans and fans in general hated how Duncan got so many touch foul and 1s. In the 2004 finals all Laker fans here could talk about is the Lakers getting screwed by the refs.

And now we have Wade. The most recent champ with a line of bruised egos and bitter fans/coaches in his wake. Plus an entire other franchise of fans who hate to seeh im do what people said for years any elite guard would do on Shaqs team.

It is not a coincidence that 17 of the last 20 champs have some form of ref based controversey. Success breeds jealousy on every level. And success combined with a massive change inthe calling of the game makes for even more villians. Wade is the villan of choice right now.

And the next team to win it all with any form of ref based complaints will be the villian until someone takes it from them. Refs give an escape from accepting being wrong or your team not being good enough. Thats why Knick fans pushed the "Jordan is loved by refs" idea in the 90s. Why Kings fans set new standards for *****ing in 01-04 and why the Mavs and Laker fans have taken the title from the Kings fans. It will go on forever and every time people will pretend its the worst its ever been.

I'll remind everyone I told them so when it happens just like I said it would when Jordan was the target and when shaq/kobe were the targets. It will happen.

Until then....ill drop it.

Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 12-03-2006 at 05:22 PM.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 06:36 PM   #56
FPower
Local High School Star
 
FPower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,545
FPower has decent reputation
Default

Quote:
Badboys got a lot of room for error on what was and wasnt a flagrant.

I know this is nitpicking a long post, but there was no such thing as a flagrant foul when the Bad Boys played. Rule wasn't implemented until the 90's.

As for Wade, I think he probably gets more than his fair share of "superstar" calls. Him and Lebron are equally frustrating to watch IMO...although I think Wade's getting to a higher level because he does the Reggie Miller thing where he's always trying to draw fouls on jump shots. That drives me nuts for some reason. Just shoot your jump shot, and if you get fouled, let the refs call it. Throwing yourself into the defender has always bothered me as being a ***** way of playing.
FPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 06:43 PM   #57
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,402
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

"I know this is nitpicking a long post, but there was no such thing as a flagrant foul when the Bad Boys played. Rule wasn't implemented until the 90's."

Yes but refs would give the tech and throw you out for the crazy hard fouls we now consider flagrants. And since 2 of them got you kicked out just like 2 flagrants I just dont think about the name.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 06:49 PM   #58
dgbigballer9329
Great young streetballer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 583
dgbigballer9329 has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Yes but refs would give the tech and throw you out for the crazy hard fouls we now consider flagrants. And since 2 of them got you kicked out just like 2 flagrants I just dont think about the name.

I don't know about that. McHale clotheslined Rambis, which would be a flagrant 2 (or 1???, whatever it is that gets you tossed) and a fine today.....and he just got a foul and stayed in. Barkley piledrives someone (don't remember who) into the basket support.......just a foul. And Parish punched Laimbeer in the jaw and didn't even get a foul (though the refs may not have seen it)
dgbigballer9329 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 06:55 PM   #59
picc84
3-time NBA All-Star
 
picc84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wash. D.C.
Posts: 8,676
picc84 has an incredible reputation herepicc84 has an incredible reputation herepicc84 has an incredible reputation herepicc84 has an incredible reputation herepicc84 has an incredible reputation herepicc84 has an incredible reputation herepicc84 has an incredible reputation herepicc84 has an incredible reputation here
Default

Wade's regular season ft's were never the large issue (at least not til after the finals). They werent last year, and they arent this year. The refs have been relatively fair in each. It was the playoffs when he began to get the blatant prefential treatment, beginning in the ECF and culminating in the finals. Thats where the huge Wade ft conspiracy stuff comes from. Pointing out his regular season ft averages compared to other players is not a counter because the more serious complaints arent really about the regular season, they stem from how the refs treat him in the playoffs. And even then pointing out other player avg's doesnt mean much because its the kind of calls he got, not the volume.
picc84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2006, 07:02 PM   #60
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 13,402
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Well of course they let more go in the 80s. But the kind of things they had slowly started not letting go in the late 80s the Pistons still got away with.

Johnny Most was the most biased announcer ever but he was right on the money saying half the Pistons team committed crimes on the floor. These guys went above and beyond tough play.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:23 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy