For the record all these people took more FTs per game on a playoff run than Wade last year(and im not counting guys who got knocked out in one round. At least 10 games played).
Pierce in 03
Wilt a number of times.
West 3-4 times.
Barkley a few times
Jordan(98 and 89 at least...maybe more)
Karl Malone(a few times)
Dirk was half a Ft a game back. Kevin Johnson was right there.
I hear its the perception more than the reality of it...and I agree.
*****ing about refs has hit all time highs and the problem is more noticed. But 20 something guys have taken more FTs a game in the playoffs than Wade did last year. As you can see its not just bigmen either. Swingmen have too.
As for when he gets them...another issue of perception and style of game. If its the end of the game every star is taught to go to the basket since youre more likely to get hit and its an easier shot. When Wade settles for a jumper late in a game(as he did vs the Pistons a few days ago) hes not getting calls when nobody touches him.
End of a game hes gonna draw contact knowing todays rules give the benefit of the doubt to the offensive player.
Such rules are why we can have 6 guards shooting more Fts than Jordan in his prime.
Seeing all his FTs makes people think things happen that dont. Make it look like he shoots them more than anyone when plenty of people took more. May "feel" like he shot more than Shaq ever did.....but he didnt. may "feel" like guards and swingmen never got to the line like he does....but they did. And do.
Problem with his FTs is far far more perception than reality. Once everyone makes a big deal of them they are noticed more and overblown. Thats why there are more percieved FTs than there are in reality. It may feel like hes on the line knocking down FTs for all his points. Reality? AI makes more Fts a game than Wade does.
But you hear 20 people ***** about Wade all day and night the complaining affects judgement. Wade gets no more calls than a few guys. And if he does its not by the margin suggested.
Takes a lot of FTs so he gets a lot of calls. But hes not on his own....
I like the guy but im not a massive fan. Ive been called a Wade hater here more than a fan since I point out the fact that without Shaq hes basically a volume shooter who wins half his games just like Kobe was.
The calls being valid is considered. But most of the time people dont even see the calls to decide if he deserved them. He only need to be fouled 6 times to get his FTs. When you look at it like that its not hard to imagine a slasher being hit 6 times in 40 minutes. If Wade gets 6 fouls its rare less than 4 are obvious calls.
Nobody here would think he couldnt draw 4-5 legit fouls a game right? We watch these games. He DOES get hit a good number of times. If he actually needed 15 calls to take 15 FTs it would be unlikely all would be legit. But if you look at footage of his fouls there is basically always contact.
A true phanton "nobody touched him" foul is rare in the NBA. He gets a lot of calls that are fouls but arent bad enough to call in my opinion. But the guy does get touched on damn near every foul call. Plenty of guys get fouled on 4-5 shots a game while not driving the way he does. Not hard to believe he could get hit once more than them while driving at every chance he gets.
But if you look at footage of his fouls there is basically always contact.
Yeah, but not always enough to be a legit foul. There is always going to be some contact. It's a contact sport. Just cause there is some of it, doesn't mean it is an actual foul. Wade gets bailed out alot with the types of calls he gets. I don't know why you're making it sound like people who point this out are "b1tching", they are merely stating how ridiculous it has gotten with him in particular. I think you're defending his case alittle too much. There certainly is legitimacy to the complaints against Wade. It isn't mere perception. Some of the "contact" is self imposed by Wade throwing himself into players, in order to get a call. Then it is even more annoying when on those plays where he draws the contact, doesn't get a call, he will actually complain. That is the worst.
I call it *****ing because thats what it usually is. Who are we talking about here? Rasheed Wallace who lost to Wades team and despite being entertaining has a long history of being a poor sport and not giving credit to teams that beat his(see last year series vs the cavs). A group of Laker fans who make the same topic over and over about Wades FTs. I dont think it needs to be explained why Laker fans might want to diminish Wade. And then its mostly Mavs fans. Basically a group of bitter fans who take advantage of any comment even the least bit related to Wade FTs to make topics like this one.
Wade has basically an entire section of fans who look to bring his status down mostly due to bitterness. So they point out every single comment anyone makes about it. Bring it up enough and you start to change perception. But you cant change reality.
The reality of the situation is Wade gets fouled....a lot. And while he may gets some calls....all the stars do. Thats why 6 guard shoot more FTs than Jordan did in 13 of his 15 years. It sure as hell isnt them being more aggressive or getting hit more(in the 90s physical play at near its peak).
Guards get calls now. Wade is the whipping boy of the moment due mostly to bitter fans and a few players making joking comments. And 1-2 defeated coaches. Coaches *****ing over refs is as old as the sport.
Wade is just the face of the issue. But he sure as hell isnt the entire issue.
When you have people saying a hall of fame potential player is mediocre if he didnt get the FT a game he gets more than the other stars its gone way past concern for the sport we love. Its just flat out stupid.
I may think the guy is overrated by many. I dont think hes top 5 in the league and arguably as low as 7th or 8th. I may not think hes gonna win anything without Shaq. It may annoy me that people choose to diminish Shaqs impact on the team. I may have been annoyed when he got some shaky calls vs the Bulls in the playoffs.
But I respect the sport too much to pretend the refs make him what he is. Determination, wanting to make it to the basket, and just a little flopping(also called veteran smart depending on who you ask) get him his FTs. And with all that he still doesnt take way more than the other guys.
So im just not going to overblow the problem. I get annoyed when he gets a FT from leaning into Kirk Hinrich. But I get annoyed when Lebron, Pierce, Cassell, and Kobe do the same thing.
The rules now annoy me. The way the game is called so that guys like Gilbert Arenas can take 800 fts. That annoys me. But I wont pretend Wade is the sole beneficiary of it just because a bunch of overly biased fans with hurt feelings find a new quote once a week and make 4 topics every time he gets more than 13 FTs.
Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 12-03-2006 at 04:49 PM.
I have to agree with the consensus that Wade is a big time actor.
I don't care about the numbers. I've watched the games. And it isn't just with the free throw issue.
How many times last year did they report how badly injured D Wade was, only to have him enter the game, play fine, and have a huge game? They were reporting during the playoffs that he couldn't even stand up in the one practice without the aid of a cart, and yet he came into the game and scored 28 or something.
The guy is a big drama queen. I don't care how good he really is. It's true.
AAP used to say the same thing about Kobe. How hed limp for a second then all of a sudden be able to drive and dunk. I didnt care much then and dont now. If you think hes a drama queen so be it. He is to some degree. And heres the last thing ill say on it....
When I was a kid everyone(in my family at least) hated the calls Larry Bird got.
Bit later it was Magic and the Lakers using that illegal D. Basically a loose zone that was as clear as day but the refs only clled 2-3 times a month. Magic getting a FT at every touch.
Then everyone was heated because ofthe pistons."How can they play like that! Thats not even basketball....". Badboys got a lot of room for error on what was and wasnt a flagrant.
Then when MJ took over the basketball world agreed he was great...but he got calls. Knicks fans hated it. magic Johnson said in photo shoots he couldnt get too close to Jordan or its a foul. Jordan gets away with the most obvious push off in history on a shot to win a title.
When the Lakers were on top "____ got screwed by the refs" was a daily issue. Kings fans, Twolf fans, blazers fans and all. Never ending *****ing over Shaq. 20 topics every playoff game where Kobe got a call or two. Nobody here at the time can deny that. **** it was like 2005 before some people stopped calling the Kings the 2002 champs here.
Few years ago the Spurs got it. Everyone mad over Bowens physicl play and from 03-05 Mavs fans and fans in general hated how Duncan got so many touch foul and 1s. In the 2004 finals all Laker fans here could talk about is the Lakers getting screwed by the refs.
And now we have Wade. The most recent champ with a line of bruised egos and bitter fans/coaches in his wake. Plus an entire other franchise of fans who hate to seeh im do what people said for years any elite guard would do on Shaqs team.
It is not a coincidence that 17 of the last 20 champs have some form of ref based controversey. Success breeds jealousy on every level. And success combined with a massive change inthe calling of the game makes for even more villians. Wade is the villan of choice right now.
And the next team to win it all with any form of ref based complaints will be the villian until someone takes it from them. Refs give an escape from accepting being wrong or your team not being good enough. Thats why Knick fans pushed the "Jordan is loved by refs" idea in the 90s. Why Kings fans set new standards for *****ing in 01-04 and why the Mavs and Laker fans have taken the title from the Kings fans. It will go on forever and every time people will pretend its the worst its ever been.
I'll remind everyone I told them so when it happens just like I said it would when Jordan was the target and when shaq/kobe were the targets. It will happen.
Until then....ill drop it.
Last edited by Kblaze8855 : 12-03-2006 at 05:22 PM.
Badboys got a lot of room for error on what was and wasnt a flagrant.
I know this is nitpicking a long post, but there was no such thing as a flagrant foul when the Bad Boys played. Rule wasn't implemented until the 90's.
As for Wade, I think he probably gets more than his fair share of "superstar" calls. Him and Lebron are equally frustrating to watch IMO...although I think Wade's getting to a higher level because he does the Reggie Miller thing where he's always trying to draw fouls on jump shots. That drives me nuts for some reason. Just shoot your jump shot, and if you get fouled, let the refs call it. Throwing yourself into the defender has always bothered me as being a ***** way of playing.
Yes but refs would give the tech and throw you out for the crazy hard fouls we now consider flagrants. And since 2 of them got you kicked out just like 2 flagrants I just dont think about the name.
I don't know about that. McHale clotheslined Rambis, which would be a flagrant 2 (or 1???, whatever it is that gets you tossed) and a fine today.....and he just got a foul and stayed in. Barkley piledrives someone (don't remember who) into the basket support.......just a foul. And Parish punched Laimbeer in the jaw and didn't even get a foul (though the refs may not have seen it)
Wade's regular season ft's were never the large issue (at least not til after the finals). They werent last year, and they arent this year. The refs have been relatively fair in each. It was the playoffs when he began to get the blatant prefential treatment, beginning in the ECF and culminating in the finals. Thats where the huge Wade ft conspiracy stuff comes from. Pointing out his regular season ft averages compared to other players is not a counter because the more serious complaints arent really about the regular season, they stem from how the refs treat him in the playoffs. And even then pointing out other player avg's doesnt mean much because its the kind of calls he got, not the volume.